VSI50 / NCOP to be re-introduced

[pisso01]

Thats F*#%ked! When will the government stop trying to squash everything. I think ill move to the NT where I can lift the lux 4inch without engineering..

Cheers,

Chris.

[ultimate]

Why would they do that? Re-qualify them for what they were already doing?

Wouldnt it just be easier to send them out a letter detailing the new rules/changes to be enforced?

From what I understand, it is a completely new scheme so they are starting fresh. One problem with the current system is lack of engineers making them too busy to do smaller jobs (or even answer the phone). The new system will put a lot more signatories out there including modification specific engineers (e.g. someone to certify suspension mods only).

If it works, it should end up being better for the public by making it easier and cheaper to get engineer's certificates.

[pisso01]

You make it sound alright Brendan. Wouldnt it come with stricter rules so we cant so as much?

Cheers,

Chris.

[ultimate]

The rules are already very strict. If this makes it easier to comply with them, the end result will be a lot better. Personally I think an engineers certificate will just became another cost like fitting or wheel alignment.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jiggins]

With what you are saying Brendan it does make sence and may benefit us but at what cost to those who are already certified engineers.

The way I see it is its another way for the NSW government to make more money.

How would you be if you spent your working life learning a job to be fired by your government and told to resit a test to do something you already knew.

[kyle300exc]

Thats F*#%ked! When will the government stop trying to squash everything. I think ill move to the NT where I can lift the lux 4inch without engineering..

Cheers,

Chris.

Not a bad idea Chris I would be willing rent an address of you up there so would a few others I think could be a good money maker

[KTM525EXC]

Why would they do that? Re-qualify them for what they were already doing?

Wouldnt it just be easier to send them out a letter detailing the new rules/changes to be enforced?

that would be the smart thing, but remember its the australian government were talking about.

[ultimate]

With what you are saying Brendan it does make sence and may benefit us but at what cost to those who are already certified engineers.

The way I see it is its another way for the NSW government to make more money.

How would you be if you spent your working life learning a job to be fired by your government and told to resit a test to do something you already knew.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Government and I know a few respectable engineers who have been put out by this new system. I think think we need a bit of a change though and can see why the Government is trying something new. Over the years the engineering scheme has become a bit of a monopoly and there are some engineers who don't have the same level of expertise as others. The idea of re-testing is to weed out some of the bad sides of the system and start on a fresh slate.

Everything has good and bad side to it. Modification specific engineers will make it easier for consumers to get small jobs done (e.g. tyres or suspension) but if you are doing a full rebuild, you may need to take it to multiple engineers. Alternatively some modifications may be passed which are not finished properly (e.g. engine swaps with out assessing the compatibility of diffs, steering, suspension and chassis components). This is one of the strongest arguing points from the current engineers as they assess the whole vehicle.

I hope the end result will be comparable with the test and tag system for power tools. If it was only done by a government organisation, they would have the monopoly and the costs would be quite high. The fact that there are so many small companies and contractors doing it means it is now process which doesn't cost too much. The negative side of this is when the engineering process becomes easier, enforcement of illegal mods will increase. One of the ideas of this system is to make it easier for legitimate modifications to be approved and stop the spread of illegal and dangerous components over the Internet.

Nobody knows yet what the full extent of these new regulations will be. There is still a chance they will make it impossible to get larger lifts approved

[Oz Bruiser]

Hey Brendan, thw electrical test and tag is not a good analagy. Im a construction sparkie and since they have allowed non electricians to test and tag there is heaps of dangerous and unsafe electrical equipment on site. Companies get the test and tag lic, get the tags, dont actually test anything, they just tag their crap and say its safe. Its a farse. Mind you it does make our job easier because no one likes doing other trades tagging as its time consuming and just cos something works dosnt make it safe and when you tell a tradie their gear isnt safe, it dosnt go down well. Sorry bit off topic.
Ben

[ultimate]

Yeah mate. Everything has a flaw and analogies never suit everyone. Just trying to find something that makes it a bit easier to understand.

[ultimate]

Here you go. Strait from the RTA

Acronyms
ECS- Engineering Certification Scheme
RTA- Roads and Traffic Authority of New South Wales
VSCCS- Vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Scheme
Information for customers

What is the VSCCS?
The VSCCS is a new scheme under which people licensed by the RTA will inspect non-standard vehicles and certify their compliance with applicable vehicle safety standards. The VSCCS replaces the ECS.
Why is the VSCCS being introduced?
The VSCCS will enable the RTA to provide a better service for customers. The VSCCS will introduce:
• More certifiers across NSW. This means customers will have broader choice in selecting a service provider. More competition will ensure that customers receive value for money when they engage a service provider.
• Improved standards of competency held by certifiers. This means that customers can be assured that their vehicle is being inspected by a person who has the appropriate qualifications, skills and experience to do the job.
• Greater protection for customers. The VSCCS will assure customers that whichever certifier they hire, that person is backed by professional indemnity and public liability insurances.
• A person you can trust. Anyone wishing to become a licensed certifier will be subject to rigorous background checks by the RTA and regular auditing to ensure that the highest standards of professional service and ethical practice are being provided.
• A simpler process. The VSCCS will save time for the customer and provide greater convenience. For example, when a customer gets their VSCCS certificate they are no longer required to present it to a motor registry. They will also no longer need to get their vehicle inspected by an Authorised Unregistered Vehicle Inspection Station.
• Safer vehicles. The VSCCS will result in motoring enthusiasts, the government and other road users having greater confidence that certified vehicles are safe and conform to applicable vehicle standards. The VSCCS will also ensure that there is clearer information available to enthusiasts about the steps they need to take to get their vehicle certified, and when they do and don’t need to get it certified.

Does the VSCCS introduce any changes to vehicle standards?
No.

How do I know if I need to get my vehicle certified?
The RTA will publish guidelines to explain to customers when you need to obtain a certificate.

RTA VEHICLE SAFETY COMPLIANCE CERTIFICATION SCHEME – QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1
Will the customer need to present a certificate to an RTA motor registry?
Currently under the ECS a customer must attend an RTA motor registry after obtaining a certificate. Under the ECS customers must also present the vehicle to an Authorised Inspection Station*. These steps will no longer be required under the VSCCS. Once a customer obtains a certificate from a VSCCS licensed certifier there is nothing more they need to do.
*Where the customer’s vehicle is unregistered, the standard RTA registration requirements will apply. An inspection report from an Authorised Unregistered Vehicle Inspection Station will be required.

My modified vehicle already has a certificate. What do I need to do?
If you have presented your certificate to an RTA motor registry there is nothing you need to do. Your certificate will continue to be recognised by the RTA.
If your have not previously presented your certificate at an RTA motor registry you must do so within six months of the VSCCS commencing. If you do not do this within six months, you will need to obtain a new certificate.
Information for licensed certifiers

Why is the VSCCS being introduced?
The VSCCS will mean that certifiers are better supported in providing this service to the community.
The VSCCS will introduce:
• A new way of working. As an agent of the RTA, the RTA is committed to developing a close business partnership with certifiers. The VSCCS introduces a range of elements that will better support and protect licensed certifiers.
• Clearer rules and expectations. The VSCCS introduces new business procedures and supporting materials so certifiers can be much clearer on what they can expect from the RTA and what the RTA expects from them.
• Principal Arranged Insurance. The VSCCS will introduce Principal Arranged Insurance. This will benefit certifiers by providing ease of access to professional indemnity and public liability insurance, commercially attractive premiums, and no need to worry about covering the seven year run-off period.
• Regular checks. Under the VSCCS the RTA will conduct periodic audits of certifiers record-keeping systems and compliance with licence conditions. This will mean that certifiers will get positive feedback about any areas of non-conformance with the scheme so that these deficiencies can be fixed early.
• Clarity about what you have certified. The VSCCS system will protect licensed certifiers by making it clear exactly what has been certified and what hasn’t. If a vehicle is further modified after certification it will be possible to establish this fact.
• A level playing field. Under the VSCCS all RTA agents will operate according to the same clear and transparent business rules. Licences will only be granted to people who meet the eligibility requirements for competence and hold the relevant insurances.
• Improved assistance for licensed certifiers: The RTA is committed to provide an improved level of advice, assistance and support for its agents under the new scheme. Training days will also be scheduled where appropriate to better improve all aspects of the scheme and assist in better recognised methods of testing and certifying vehicles. You can also expect that regular updates will be posted on the VSCCS online IT system to ensure you are notified of changes.

[dute]

Brendan I have been following this for a while and at what cost is all this going be and whos paying for all these tests and inspections ?

I dont see the RTA not putting out there hand out for there share $$$

The way I'm looking at this it's going to be a good money spinner for someone.

Pete.

[ultimate]

The RTA is a money making machine so they will be profiting the most. The smaller operators doing the inspections will also be making an income off it which is reasonable considering the experience and qualifications required.

The main thing to remember is this system is not bringing in new vehicle regulations. This is a way of getting vehicles engineered which are outside the limits set in current laws. As we all know, 50mm is the highest you can legally raise a vehicle and tyre sizes are also over restricted. There are a lot of people even on this forum who have modified their vehicles outside of the regulations and therefore are currently un-roadworthy. For the owners who want to do everything right and keep it legal, this system will make it easier to have your vehicle engineered and declared safe for road use. There will always be a minority of drivers who will not go through the process and these vehicles will always remain illegally modified.

Looking at the big picture, I believe this is stepping stone for the RTA to start enforcing vehicle regulations. Soon ignorance will not be accepted and we will be seeing a lot more crack downs on all forms of motor vehicles.

[pisso01]

If it was easier and cheaper I would definately be getting my car engineered. I would probably go a slightly higher lift and bigger tires and brakes too. So if the idea of these changes is to make it cheaper and easier for someone to engineer their car then it should be a good thing...

Cheers,

Chris.

[Oz Bruiser]

Just to chime in on a small scale. My lux is Engineered and although i dont need to get my factory 17's engineered as i understand it, as im running a 265/70/17 which is the same size as my engineered 265/75/16's although they are nearly identical to the mm in size(diameter) my Engineer told me i should still get engineered due to the bigger rubber in a different size to what mt Engineers papers say. Also he advised me to try and get it done before the end of Sept as these new laws effecting engineers may make it harder after that date. IE he advissed if any mods were to be done that requires engineering, no matter how small, its best to get it done before the end of Sept as it "may" be harder for them to engineer after the end of September with regards to new laws.

[kyle300exc]

Note to self keep all standard equipment
We'll probably all end up with car trailers and daily drives so we can tow our illegal vehicles 4 or 5 hours to private properties where we'll be fined for noise pollution, contributing dust into the atmosphere, being bald having facial hair and not pooing in an approved chemical tiolet FKN rediculous....I need another beer....owe sh$t tell me there not going to ban that

[pisso01]

Note to self keep all standard equipment
We'll probably all end up with car trailers and daily drives so we can tow our illegal vehicles 4 or 5 hours to private properties where we'll be fined for noise pollution, contributing dust into the atmosphere, being bald having facial hair and not pooing in an approved chemical tiolet FKN rediculous....I need another beer....owe sh$t tell me there not going to ban that

X2 may as well get in a bubble now. Its how we will be living in the future..

[lmichie]

Just to throw my 2c in with a couple of details I've picked up.

The change in Engineering system does not change what the rules for modification are, just how they are signed off.

One of the biggest changes is that the Engineer logs the certification directly to the RTS online so there is a record that your car is engineered. That means that you won't need to carry a certificate or visit the RTA yourself.

[ultimate]

Yeah that's right lmichie. No new regulations, just a new way of getting modifications engineered. We have always been re-engineering our Hilux as the kit and modifications have changed over time. It's just something which comes with running a big lift and bigger tyres.

[Hilux Max]

4WD Action has put out email notices today alerting everyone to the re-introduction of VSI-150.

A couple things of concern that Ill share with you all from that email notice -

The biggest issue is that of vehicle ride height. Under VSI50, vehicles with a combined ride height more than 75mm above standard will only be eligible for ‘conditional registration’. The document isn’t clear on what this means, but you can be certain conditional registration will force you to justify why you ‘need’ to be driving your 4WD every single time you get behind the wheel. There is a way around this – VSI50 states that if you are a member of an affiliated 4WD club, and have completed a driver training course, then you’ll be allowed full registration.

I thought compulsory unionism was dead in Australia. I thought this was a free country.

What we’re witnessing is un-reasonable and un-Australian.

VSI50 forces you to pay membership fees and join a 4WD club, simply so you can have full registration on your sensibly modified 4WD. What if you don’t want to be a member of a club? What if you can’t find a club to join? What if you’re stretched enough as it is and don’t want to pay anymore bills?

If VSI50 becomes official legislation, 4WD NSW & ACT will have ultimate say over when and where you can drive your 4WD!

Conditional registration is a scary thing if it gets through.....regardless of the way it is imposed/enforced. In regards to our model hilux's this 75mm rule means anyone with a 2" suspension lift and 31" tyres is legit...anyone with anything else needs to prove to their traffice authority WHY they need the extra mods and will have to be a club member with extra liscencing to drive.

Im not against people having to do a 4x4 driving course.......actually it would be a pretty responsible thing to do if driving a fourby since they handle differently to the typical motor vehicle and would benefit alot of "newbies".

But being forced into a club when you might not have the time or costs to do so is rediculous.

he second issue of concern with the revised VSI50 document, is a blanket ban of all tyre diameter increases of more than 50mm. That means than generally speaking, anything larger than a 31in tyre on a dual-cab ute, or a 33in tyre on a full-sized wagon, will be absolutely illegal.

Bloody Joke!

There’ll be no option to ever have a bigger set of tyres put through engineering tests to be deemed safe. VSB14, which is the guideline document VSI50 has been created from talks about a maximum headlight lift of 150mm over standard. We believe that’s fair – what we don’t support is the fact that the proposed VSI50 plan limits the way in which you’re allowed to achieve that 6in headlight height raise. Sure, a lot of us will be happy with a vehicle running a 2in lift and 2in over standard diameter tyres, but what if you did want to take it to the next level and run 35in tyres?

If you wanted to spend the time and money on brake and suspension upgrades to ensure your 4WD could run 35in tyre safely - why should you be denied that?

Exactly...if you do the mods and keep things safe, why shouldnt you be allowed to drive it?

150mm total I think personally is a responsible height limit restriction to enforce....if need be throw in a driving training course to prove you know how to drive your fourby and thats it.

What is the real agenda behind all of this?