future build prado or hilux

[sclater29]

hi guys,
i will be in a position in about 6 months were i will be selling up everything and going to go be a nomad around australia for about 2 years hoping to travel nearly every track available.

my first dilema is vehicle selection, i am a member on both this forum and pradopoint and have been following both over the years and i am unsure as to the vehicle i should choose(150 series dual cab or 120 series prado).

to start with seating is not an issue as it will only be myself and my wife traveling however i want atleast back seats to make driving more comfortable and more secure storage. the remoteness of my travel plans ive limitied driveline to diesel manual, and would like medium grade car i.e sr5 or gxl prado.

my preferance in 4wd has always been utes as i think thier great to buy a new whitegoods, trip to the tip, put fishing rods in, dirty recovery gear,shooting, firewood, dogs and a million more reasons. however having driven the prado and the hilux i think the hilux is alot less refined offroad and less capable in my opinion (i think the coils give better flex in rear and already has more powerful motor with extra 110l fuel capacity, bigger brakes std and the panel work just seems tougher as thiers more manufacturing folds in the steel i.e front fenders.

if i were to get the sr5 hilux i really like the look of the well body, im wondering if anybody has cut into the tub to build storage in the tub itself.

camping wise i will be buying a hard floor camper (still to decide which one) so i can leave camp set up and go and explore with the vehicle
s
tyre wise i think 32-33s will be my aim with reduced gearing to get stock gearing, suspension wise im really fond of the ultimate suspension smart liftmay incorperate a body lift

most other bolt on mods will be added as i will need to be totally self sucficiant

im also wondering if i contact alot of the companies that i watn to use if they will be interested in sponouring me products or supplying them at cost if i did some kind of 2 year feed back for them and maybe some pr like stickers and stuff

[rodw]

I think it depends a bit on your camping setup. Decide on the camper first as it will determine your car setup.

If you go the Dual cab route, leave the rear seat behind so you have storage in the back. Having set up a tub for touring, I think you would be a lot better off with a trayback like Alby's or McSumWay's. Much easier to fit water tanks and the like under the tray. You can easilly carry over 200 litres of fuel under the Hilux and if you want more, add a 55 litre plastic tank in the tub which will get you to about 280 litres. You can still carry 70 litres of water under the tray with this load.

For just the two of you, I think the best conventional hard floor camper is the Australian Offroad camper but fully configured at $52k is not cheap. I would buy it over the Kimberley.

The other one to look at is the Imagine camper which is new to Australia. It turns the idea of offroad accommodation on its ear! http://www.imaginecampers.com.au/ Internal toilet and shower, heaps of shade and probably cheaper than the top of the range conventional ones. With this setup, you won't need to carry much in the back of the car at all and you won't need to drop your trailer to explore...

[Alby]

As Rod said I think it will depend on your trailer setup and how much gear you want to carry in the vehicle. As you pointed out the Prado is a more refined vehicle but lacks carrying capacity so was not an opton for my situation,
We travel a a family of four and I do not want to tow a trailer so the Dual cab configuration was the only option.

If you go this way consider a tray and aluminium canopy setup, you gain approximately 1m2 of extra floor space plus is more accesable/usable than the wellback / canopy option IMHO.

Good luck with your choice.

[Shaker]

The other one to look at is the Imagine camper which is new to Australia. It turns the idea of offroad accommodation on its ear! http://www.imaginecampers.com.au/ Internal toilet and shower, heaps of shade and probably cheaper than the top of the range conventional ones. With this setup, you won't need to carry much in the back of the car at all and you won't need to drop your trailer to explore...

What neat little units Rod, very well laid out indeed. It very much looks like their using the same high quality rip-stop tripple treated cotton/polyester Aussie canvass as Campmor Outdoor use on the Serengeti tents they export to South Africa for tourist cabins as well as shade cloth fly screens! Those tents are proven to stay in the searing heat and UV day after day without falling apart, so it should last a very long time. You can compare the colour tone of the canvass in the General Conversation thread to a tent I bought where you can see close up photos of the canvass. I'd like to see one of these trailers in person for sure!

Shaker.

[sclater29]

those australian offroad campers do look pretty sweet units, agreed a little expensive but they look quality, i plan on going to a large camping trailer show and looking at all walks of life have a really good play down the track,

agreed also with the thoughts of putting a trade body on the back of the hilux for traveling however i feel by doing it you lose the use of the "ute" and with my previous 75 series i really got the shits on with the constant rattle that came from a steel trayside back (i tried alot of things and nothing really worked permanently) so i still think the sr5 with rear tub is the way i will go.

has anybody reinvented the wheel with the tub i.e cut storage doors into the tub or got some unique storage ideas without putting a canopy on the back, i feel if you put a canopy on you might as well drive a prado,

while im getting ideas of building an ultimat "TOURER" if i asked the question if you had big budget to build your car again how would you do it / change from previous attemps

my starting point is something along lines
sr5 silver d4d manual
arb front bar with 9.5lb winch with heat resistant plasma rope 10mm and 2x 50w hid pencil lightforce lights with scrub bars
dual battery settup using optima batteries (maybe lithium iron phosphate if i can afford them)
one rhino rack on front of roof and another bar at back of tray (to mount canoe ontop of car) and 4 x170 lightforce strikers
under body armour such as tjm or custom
prado diff housings to house reduction gears for bigger rubber
eaton e lockers front and back (when available)
endless air system plumbed to an outlet either side of car
32-33" cooper stt rims some form of 5 spoke alloy 17x8 (less body roll may even get staun bead lockers)
ultimate suspension ssmart lift maybe a small body lift as well
long range tanks (150-200l)
dual spare tyre carrier probly custom built
custom rock sliders
upraded front disck brakes, will explore putting disks onto rear
explore removing leaves from rear and replacing with springs
dc to dc charger
uniden uhf mounted in roof console
engine mods minimum of 2.75-3" exausght with steinbeur chip but would like to get more power may explore things like milling the head, increasing boost if motor is strong enough possibility of watercooled turbo ,
3 core pwr ally radiator
pre filter with water alarm
pyrometer
upgraded cvs
billet diff breathers extensions
throttle delay eliminator unit
aftermarket temp guage that monitors if fluid is actually available (mounted in front piller pod)

lots of other little things but that is the main ideas im throwing around atm

[Bull]

I'm sure the Prado is a nicer car to drive but really limited for storage space compared to a ute.
Of the 2 choices you've given yourself, my pic would be a Hilux extra cab/chassis with custom made body. If you go to my build up thread there's a silver enclosed canopy that looks pretty good.

[fgk228]

space cab sounds good for you, backs seats and bigger tray than duel cab. take a look at the all terrian campers they look pretty solid.

[rodw]

sclater29

That is some serious build. I am sure there is no way the Prado would hold all that weight and stay within its GVM limits. I also doubt the Hilux will get in under the GVM based on my experience. Check my buildup for details.

I reckon if you stick to the Hilux, you would be better off fitting the Lovells GVM upgrade suspension kit which will increase the GVM, but this will be at the expense of the GCM sorry Brendan The weight you can legally tow will be reduced.

If you went the tray back route, you could look at a jack off style camping back so you got your ute back when you came home.

200 litres of fuel is doable. olcoolone has 280 litres. You can get a 153 litre replacement fuel tank and another 70 litres that goes above the spare tyre. Down side of this would be the extra tank behind the rear axle which will increase the axle weight which may be a factor when you take into account the towball weight.

I did not see any water storage on your list. Not sure if that is important with a trailer behind. It is hard to do in a style side. The only trick I think you could explore with the tub is to fit your aux battery up in the underside of the tub behind the rear wheels. I am not aware of anyone doing any major hacking to the tub.

I was interested to hear feedback to the two campers I listed. If you like the Imagine, you may also like to look at the Conqueror http://www.conqueroraustralia.com.au/ but having seen one in the flesh, it did not appeal to me. You may also like to look at offroad caravans. I have a Coromal on order which is an entry level one, avoid Jayco and I am guessing at $60k plus, there will be some resstance to the Australian Offroad and Kimberly vans. Most of the offroad vans (eg. Kedron) are too heavy for the Hilux.

Be prepared to spend at least 2 full days at a major caravan show to see all options.

[sclater29]

still not any closer to getting a rig yet but i have decided to scrap the well body idea and go a tray back put a solid box canopy (better dustproffing thans canvas) and fit it out to suit will be alot more practicable and i will build it so that it has a slide off option so if you want to leave the canopy behind, have a major need for a ute you can still have the tray to get your needs accomodated for.

regarding canopy design i was origianally looking at mounting two spare wheels (33") to back of cab window however i think they will be better mounted externally on back of canopy for space reasons, will this affect weights alot if i plan to have a sub tank installed where spare wheel is under car?

next question is spare wheel mounting, hard to describe but i have seen settups with two wheels mounted behind cab with a pull down section that matches profile of cab to lower spares to a good level, what things have yous got or seen that enable easy access to spare wheels ( i think they will probly end up external to canopy at the rear got some ideas but dont know if they will be to weighty and bush proof enough, dont get me wrong im more than capable of changing a tyre but some of the tracks i plan on travelilng im planning on several flats and i think having an assisted form of unloading, loading 33" tyres would be an advantagous design.


whats your rhoughts

[McSumWay]

With what you described you would be way better with the Prado/trailer option as the setup you have spoken of for the hilux would cost way more and would exceed GVM before you hop in.

STD on the prado are :

Long range fuel
Traction control(almost as good as diff locks)
more power
Larger wheels and tyres -negates need for diff changes
Larger brakes

Coil spring comfort
Better economy due to 6 speed gearbox

Also the GVM difference between these two is not much around 100kgs depending on model specs and many of those would be sucked up by the above.

I own both and while I love my hilux ( with aluminum canopy ) that is for traveling with a family of 5. Not to mention it costs more than the Prado as setup with most of your mods.

[McSumWay]

If you do go ahead with the lux as described you will have a lot of weight behind the rear axle with an extra tank and two spares. I would rethink this option as you would end up overloading the chassis at the rear with what you have described if you head into difficult territory.

[sclater29]

hey guys just trying to clarryfy weights here a bit,specifically how a trailer ties in as thier should be a gcm but i cant find that?, off the tojo website for the hilux as below
2780 gvm
2250 gtm (braked)
885 payload sr5 utilty
915 payload sr c/c
trailer tare 1100kg (aor oddysey)
hitch weight 100kg (aor oddysey)
rough weights (give or take)
lets say with 2 people (150kg) bullbar, winch,dual batts (100kg) solid canopy with two 33" tyres mounted (150kg) 200l fuel (200kgs) recovery gear (100kg) other small misc mods (50kg) extra weight from tyres/rims (50kg) couple of 20l water jerries and some food (50kgs) you would be up around your gvm where does this leave your trailer weights or at this stage can you still tow 2t+ of trailer or is it more ball weight than actual trailer weight thats the issue?

surely a hilux with rear leaves would come in alot better capacity than a prado? and be designed to carry a heavier load, not to mention you dont need a roof rack to mount a second spare tyre etc so weights carried lower to ground. i know gvm is a big problem with all cars especially touring rigs but in all honesty i think you would be hard pressed to set up a tourer and forego most of this mandatory equip.

my next slightly synical question is it actually worth setting up a hilux as a touring rig/offroad car? dont get me wrong im a toyota man through and through and love the hilux but given the strength of say a gu patrol pick one up alot cheaper than a hilux and not need to modify it as extensively i.e bigger tyre fitment easier, youll get away with a $2k 2" lift instead of a $6k 4" lift not worry bout upgrading cvs/ucas, snapping stub axles,burning out clutches,flimsy body panel damage etc so you effectively get further offroad, easier and cheaper settup and if the old 4.2l just dont cut it,shoe horn in the brunswick 6.5l? not to mention most hiluxed get canopys put on them which in honesty just makes them a slightly more accesable wagon?

[broke]

I reckon you may have just answered your own question!

Broke

[sclater29]

well i know im sounding like a yoyo with my descisions however after hiring a prado 150 for the weekend i came to a couple of real world realitys.

1st drove the prado 150 and was very happy with it. but the realilty is if your going to be driving miles and miles of roads you want to do it in comfort and being able to talk quietly and have a ride that jsut flaots over large pot holes and corrigations is so much nicer and is a deciding factor to me to have something that is nice as opposed to something robust.

2nd im admiting im going to be towing a trailer so reality check is im not going to be going everywere maybe 80% of places but straight off the bat i can only go as far as the trailer will so i think the prado will fit the bill

3rd after driving a nice road based car for a weekend (prado150)compared to more agriculture type cars i have decided that most travel to good 4wd spots is like 80% road 15% corrigations and 5% hard offroad so the threat of needing some rock hopping monster seems alot less prevelant.



so basically saying i really like the 150 prado and i think that is the way i will end up,better ride quality, better sooundproffing, already has twice capacity of hilux, bigger wheels, bigger brakes, better gearbox ratios, more power, more security, and truck loads more. propbly gx spec as dont need the back seats or leather. and if your going to canopy up your hilux then your really just creating a wagon anyway.

[Hilux Max]

Hope you realise the Prad0 150 has less storage room in the back then the Prado 120! yeah nice vehicles to drive and overall bigger but due to the rear seat design )3rd row) theres actually less space in the back. stupid design really. Havent seen the GX spec closely but if that 3rd row aint there then it should be fine.

[McSumWay]

The GX has no rear seats so it is the same.

On a recent trip with some 120 prado owners we cross checked the dimensions.

The amount of space lost on the GXL is not that significant despite what many say and those seats can be removed ( with some effort ) if need be. The difference is only in height and is approximately 120mm.