Eaton/Harrop Electronic rear diff lock

[pootrol]

yeah there is talk that the new design is harder to get wrong on the installers side of things. i think air locker again for me . from what they said is they have tried diff materials etc. but is it china made.

[Shaker]

And your Hilux made in Japan. China is cheap labor, b ut it does not mean the quality is missing. I've been following the ARB locker progress for the last couple of years and it's a device that's had the 'bugs' ironed out. I'm always unsure of something that has not been proven yet, though the design of the newer locker looks very similar. See what people think of them in two years. So who is a guinea pig for these so far?

[olcoolone]

ARB air lookers are made in AUSTRALIA and not overseas.

pootrol, you made mention about wires being pulled off and the diff not working.....no different to an air locker getting the air lines pulled out or compressor failing or issues with a more complex wiring system that you have on a air locker system.

Don't know where you heard that you can only do 30 kilometers per hour, why would you want to use a locker above 30.....lockers are only meant to be used in low traction applications and anything above 30 you put extreme loads on you drive train and the chances of causing damage increases 10 fold.

We went with an Elocker due to instant ease of use and not having to worry about compressors, air building up, air leaks or solenoids failing.

[MADDOG]

I think ages ago I read somewhere on this site that if the wires break when the ELocker is engage, it stays engaged. I'll do some searching.

[Hilux Max]

ARB air lookers are made in AUSTRALIA and not overseas.

Ill second that, Ive seen em being made at their Kilsyth factory here in Victoria....awesome tour if you ever get a chance to go on one...go!

Don't know where you heard that you can only do 30 kilometers per hour, why would you want to use a locker above 30.....lockers are only meant to be used in low traction applications and anything above 30 you put extreme loads on you drive train and the chances of causing damage increases 10 fold.

I'll bite on this.....

during the tour of the ARB factory with Wyatt and Marlin, we were shown around by the chief engineer of the air locker...the bloke that actually designs them. canadian bloke...nice fellow.....anyway, he was saying that when they were over in the states recently for the King of Hammers Competition some of the competitors were having ussues with engaging the locker whilst under full throttle.......

now mind you, these is the absolute extreme of circumstances....1 tonne axles....600hp engines and crawl boxes....stupid amounts of torque....BUT...the engineer said they are looking into it and was positive they'd develop a solution to suit the extreme end of the competition scene.....where they are doing more than 30kph and need the traction at a moments notice.

wont bother the majority of us here, well pretty much all of us, but its good to know that ARB has the design/knowledge and experience to accomadate the comp scene....like F1 cars, the top end technology eventually filters down to the everyday user and abuser!

[pootrol]

its all good to hear fellas. yeah i did read it too about it engaging when wires are ripped but after talking to a few opposite locks and them making a call they said no, which is logical. it works on magnetism, no electricity no magnetism. i see your point olcoolone but for me i go to places where its just 4wding tracks so to turn on and off just to drive short gravel roads to get to the next place isnt my style cos i worry about wear and tear of switching it on and off 20 times a day. i like the idea i can engage the rear wheels on a hilly gravel roads that has changing surfaces, i can drive with the rear locked and not have the need to engage 4wd which i think is harder on the drivetrain. to me a rear locker in the bush is just a limited slip, turn it on and forget about it. i know we all have different places to 4wd and some of us purely do touring but my main place is LCMP. another factor is beach driving. id engage it to minimise having to stop then engage, most times you do 60-80 klm along the beach. even if you stopped and engaged it to go through the sand pits most times its easy to be doing more than 30klm. im only going from what opp lock has told me about the 30k thing. other wise id be booking it in now for one. the arb locker is still made in aus. thats good to hear. ill keep researching as i think its a good thing just need something to suit me......

[olcoolone]

mmaaxx, when I said "extreme loads on you drive train and the chances of causing damage increases 10 fold." I was referring to standard drive trains (axles, crown wheels, unijoint, tailshafts, gearboxes and clutches).

Comp vehicles are a bit different.

Running a locker at high speed on a low HP vehicle can be very dangerous, will not turn as easily and can make the vehicle unstable and twitchy under high speed acceleration.

I think they call it understeer.

This is one reason why people who run Detroit locker type diffs in 4x4 usually pull them out and fit selectable lockers instead.

[pootrol]

im trying to get some more info about speed limit. it could be all $hit and im getting delayed about fitting one........

[olcoolone]

One of the 4x4 mags did a write up about lockers and all of them were much the same in strength...so I would say if one locker was going to fail above 30 Kilometers per hour then they all would.

The reason the may say don't use above 30 is for driver safety and drive train reliability and nothing to do with the reliability of the locker.

We were going to fit ARB air lockers but decided at the last minute to go for the Eaton Elocker, main reason was you don't need an air compressor or air tank to operate it and the installation of the airlines, solenoids and extra wiring was the deciding factor......I wanted to use the KISS principle.

Where I go the less complicated things to go wrong the better.

Our Hilux probably sees more extreme 4x4ing then most and we do it with a camper trailer in tow most times.

The problem with running lockers when not needed is you put extra load on stuff especial in situations like turning and undulating ground where one wheel has to travel faster then the other.

When you turn corners the outer wheel must turn faster then the inside wheel (outside wheel travels more distance then the inside wheel.....remember the PIE formula), with a locker you apply equal power to the inside and outside wheel meaning the inside wheel has to turn a lot faster then it has to as the out side wheel dictates the speed.....so either it wheel spins the inside wheel putting load on the axle in the form of windup or it tries to push the vehicle straight.

Best thing is try a 4x4 with the front locker engage only and see how hard it is to drive....this is what's happening with the rear.

The best thing to do is learn about tyre pressures, traction technique's and wheel placements with out a locker, then once mastered then get a locker and enjoy.

[Dluxv6]

Pootrol
have been running my Elocker for twelve months nearly and have exceeded 30 km /h on most occassions,beach dirt etc the only thing i know is not to engage it above 5 kmh
i am with olcoolone and the KISS principle

My2c Dluxv6

[pootrol]

cheers dlux hoping you had a chance to test yours. rang another dude and he said no probs with speed. i do like the principle and will prob go this way now. did a bit more reading and they yak on about how unsafe it is at higher speeds....etc.

[MADDOG]

Thanks heaps to olcoolone and Dluxv6. You've both helped to explain how the ELocker works and it's pro's and con's. I know I'll be getting one when funds permit.

[toyboata]

I agree with some here, lockers should not need to be used above 30kph anyway, they're for maximum traction at low speeds, and in straight lines usually as you do get some understeer, especially in a front locker i've heard you get massive understeer. If you want traction at speed just 4wd should be enough and no harm done as long as your travelling on a surface that allows wheel slippage.
Also the E-locker is made by EATON, who are owned by DANA, who make transmissions, gearboxes, differentials/final drive assemblies, axles and driveshafts, etc. for most manufacturers of heavy and off-road vehicles the world over.....so you know they're bloody tough!

[pootrol]

Thanks heaps to olcoolone and Dluxv6. You've both helped to explain how the ELocker works and it's pro's and con's. I know I'll be getting one when funds permit.

ill second that. its been good help. really liked the idea of them but wasnt convinced. im convinced enough to order one today. hopefully in next week. buying it and taking it to a diff specialist to fit then ill do the wiring.

[Goldminer]

What are people being quoted for the elocker? I was quoted 2490 fitted by a diff mob in Perth over the phone how does that stack up. I can get front and rear air lockers for just over 3 k so sounds very steep to me.
Cheers

[olcoolone]

If we were doing a Elocker in our workshop we would charge around that figure.

Most 4x4 shops don't do it the right way, don't change carrier bearings, don't change diff oil, don't check crown wheel to pinion contact correctly.

Seriously if your getting quotes of just over 3 grand for front and rear air lockers...bear in mind they are only a $850 center each whereby the Elocker is a $1700 center, so that equates to about $1200 to $1400 in parts and labour for the 2 air lockers and about $800 for 1 Elocker in parts and labour.

I can bet my boots the ones doing the air locker wont be replacing the oil and carrier bearings.

[Goldminer]

Why are the eaton centres twice the price of an ARB one? are they more complicated? So doing the maths its $800 for labour and consumables for the Eaton and 700 per centre for the Arb then that seems about right? Just to be straight this is a specialist differential company not a 4wd shop and I can quiz them on the bearings and such so I am not sure which is the better deal. If people are saying the Elocker is good then how much better is it? I already have a onboard air system so that is not a problem. Decisions decisions....

[Hilux Max]

So are you guys saying that ARB doesnt change the bearings like a diff specialist does? Doesnt the air locker come with new bearings? I thought I saw a pic of the center with a set of bearings with it...not sure where now....

[olcoolone]

Why are the eaton centres twice the price of an ARB one? are they more complicated? So doing the maths its $800 for labour and consumables for the Eaton and 700 per centre for the Arb then that seems about right? Just to be straight this is a specialist differential company not a 4wd shop and I can quiz them on the bearings and such so I am not sure which is the better deal. If people are saying the Elocker is good then how much better is it? I already have a onboard air system so that is not a problem. Decisions decisions....

Goldminner..... The Elocker is aimed squarely at the ARB/TJM air locker market, if you were starting from scratch you would have to buy an air compressor, get it fitted and wired, buy an air locker, get it fitted and wired.....with an Elocker you only have to buy the Elocker, get it fitted and wired and away you go....no need for a compressor.

Harrop have be very smart in the pricing, relishing they can sell it for the same price as a air locker and compressor.

The Elocker for the Hilux is a more expensive center because they are partly made in the USA and partly here in Australia and are low volume sellers, other Elockers are made in the USA with no Australian input.....hence why they are a bit cheaper.

ARB on the other hand manufacture more and there is only two stackholders in the profit gathering (ARB them selves and the reseller), with Elockers you have Eaton, Harrop and the reseller looking for profit.

[olcoolone]

So are you guys saying that ARB doesnt change the bearings like a diff specialist does? Doesnt the air locker come with new bearings? I thought I saw a pic of the center with a set of bearings with it...not sure where now....

Most centers don't come with bearing as the bearing size can change with vehicle model but the center size (crown wheel) can stay the same.

Most times they will only press the old bearings off and repress the on the new center, reassemble the diff and check to make sure the preloads are the same as when they started.

It's not good practice to reuse old bearings once they have been removed.