The possiblity of crawler gears in our chain driven transfer

[Hilux Max]

Now all we got to do is to convince one of you guys to order the Lefty

Mate! Im convinced...was ages ago, but weighing up Lefty to "Wife Lefty", doesnt quite add up at the moment....

maybe in a year or two, i should have the rear locker, rear bar, diff gears done, then lefty is left.

[rodw]

Mate! Im convinced...was ages ago, but weighing up Lefty to "Wife Lefty", doesnt quite add up at the moment....

maybe in a year or two, i should have the rear locker, rear bar, diff gears done, then lefty is left.

Just remember Max that Lefty has its origins from the Righty so you will know it will be right in the end

You could always plead "The Angel made me do it!"

[KTM525EXC]

Sometimes called the diff centre. It's the thing that the crown wheel bolts to and the other gears sit inside of.
When you choose a full strength traction aid like the ARB Air Locker or a Detroit locker, you replace the factory carrier. If you choose the factory style plate type LSD or a "budget" auto locker you keep the factory carrier.

so if buying a prado front air locker the carrier is replaced with the locker? or does the locker sit inside the carrier??
Troy

[KTM525EXC]

personally....when Im ready for it, I'll be going the 4.5:1 thick cut gears as Im not going to change my locker just for a set of gears, and the I'll have better than stock low range 1st which will also help me when towing stuff with the auto in high range.

so when i get my 33's and if i use the 4.5:1 on a manual how much lower gearing will i have than say having 29's and standard gearing. so i will be traveling slower with a higher spedo reading is that correct? i like the 4.5:1 idea that way i can keep my locker that im getting

rod is it possibe to calculate in % how much lower it will be than standard?
Cheers Troy

[Hilux Max]

KTM,

if buying a front locker and doing the diff gears at the same time, then your better off getting the Prado front air locker to suit the gears ( all gears higher than 3.9 except the Just Diffs 4.5) ...you will not need a new carrier as the air locker takes the place of the carrier.

4.5:1 with a manual will have a very low/short first gear...which you will find you rarely use in low range except for extreme situations.

[rodw]

rod is it possibe to calculate in % how much lower it will be than standard?
Cheers Troy

Troy, we got a bit of a mixup in the bible which has been corrected now. I also updated the stuff on how to use this info. Blame Mmaaxx

There is no 4.3 diff option, we had incorrectly listed a 7.5" centre when the Hilux uses an 8" centre.

But in answer to your question, the change looks like it is about 7% for an Auto which is about the same as going back from 31's to stock tyres, so you would hardly notice the difference. For your Manual it is closer to 10% which is more like dropping back from 32's to stock tyres. Don't know if that helps you visualise the difference.

If you have not got a front locker yet, then a 4.1 with a Prado locker (RD111) would be a better way to go as you won't need to buy a carrier. It makes sense to swap the centres over when you fit the locker.

[Hilux Max]

My Bad...but lucky I double checked the info this morning just to make sure...sorry for the stuff but is all correct now.

[KTM525EXC]

KTM,

if buying a front locker and doing the diff gears at the same time, then your better off getting the Prado front air locker to suit the gears ( all gears higher than 3.9 except the Just Diffs 4.5) ...you will not need a new carrier as the air locker takes the place of the carrier.

4.5:1 with a manual will have a very low/short first gear...which you will find you rarely use in low range except for extreme situations.

could that be a good thing? that would mean i would use more 2nd gear low more and 1st for really rough stuff. eliminating the need 4 me to get a lefty? on the hwy in 5th in h2 what kind of rpm would it be at with 33's and using the 4.5:1 ratio, if now with 32's it sits on exactly 2000rpm at 100kph?
as 4 spedo correction i could buy 1 of those correction boxes. if i do change to the prado locker will it fit with the standard gearing coz atm i cant afford to do the ratio's as well?
Troy

[Hilux Max]

No, you cant as far as I understand fit the prado locker on the standard gears....thats why there is the difference with the gear sets 3.7 and below and the ones 3.9 and above.

Going by my calculations, and please correct me if i worked it out wrong anybody, but going by what you said, if you had 33's and the 4.5:1 gears in 5th gear at 100kph, you'd be doing 2,600rpm.

yes, you would be revving higher, but that is because you would have much more useable torque down lower than before.

does that make sense?

I just worked mine out for a "F" around......currently with the 4 speed auto D4D, I can get her to go into lock up converter at 80kph if on a smooth flat road with no wind or load and revving at 1400rpm. Thats where peak torque starts.

if I changed to 4.5 gears, it would mean at 80kph I'd be revving at 1689rpm....still sweet and low. So at 100kph I'd be revving at 2,111revs.

And she'd be shifting into lock up converter at 67kph......very nice for cruising around and not that bad on the highway either....I'd be at peak torque at 100kph considering the D4D makes maximum torque from 1400 right through to 3,400rpm.

She'd be pulling like a 14 year old school boy

[Quinny34]

And she'd be shifting into lock up converter at 67kph......very nice for cruising around and not that bad on the highway either....I'd be at peak torque at 100kph considering the D4D makes maximum torque from 1400 right through to 3,400rpm.

She'd be pulling like a 14 year old school boy

LMAO...

So if I was to get the next one down from the 4.5 which is 4.3 in thick cut, I'd still have my locker and I'd be able to do aorund the 115klm mark at around 2000 rpm???

(Also, are you quoting your speed of your speedo coz with the 33's its around 10% out..)

[Hilux Max]

Quinny,

My speedo isnt out...it's 100% spot on with my 33's....I have the marks adaptors speedo ratio box fitted and I installed it from day one.

Unfortunately that "Thick" cut gears only come in a 4.5:1 so if you want to run any other ratio (by the way 4.3's arent available for our hilux, was a stuff up on my part earlier) you will need either the prado front air locker or Prado front diff carrier.

sorry quinny.....I know you got the front locker too, so 4.5's is the best option IMO.

[Quinny34]

Whats the next one down then and how many RPM's do you invisage at 115klms... I can work out if the auto will lock up or not based on the rpm and percieved load...

[Hilux Max]

next one down is 4.1:1....but you'll need to change your locker over for prado one.

[KTM525EXC]

No, you cant as far as I understand fit the prado locker on the standard gears....thats why there is the difference with the gear sets 3.7 and below and the ones 3.9 and above.

Going by my calculations, and please correct me if i worked it out wrong anybody, but going by what you said, if you had 33's and the 4.5:1 gears in 5th gear at 100kph, you'd be doing 2,600rpm.

yes, you would be revving higher, but that is because you would have much more useable torque down lower than before.

does that make sense?

I just worked mine out for a "F" around......currently with the 4 speed auto D4D, I can get her to go into lock up converter at 80kph if on a smooth flat road with no wind or load and revving at 1400rpm. Thats where peak torque starts.

if I changed to 4.5 gears, it would mean at 80kph I'd be revving at 1689rpm....still sweet and low. So at 100kph I'd be revving at 2,111revs.

And she'd be shifting into lock up converter at 67kph......very nice for cruising around and not that bad on the highway either....I'd be at peak torque at 100kph considering the D4D makes maximum torque from 1400 right through to 3,400rpm.

She'd be pulling like a 14 year old school boy

I like your way of thinking max lol
so if you were in my shoes with a manual would you get the prado locker and wait till i have the cash for the 4.1:1 and then get it installed or go the lux locker now and get the 4.5:1 gears later?
so many decisions so little time
Troy

[Hilux Max]

personally, Id get the locker now because whilst your saving for gears you can use the locker in the meantime...ideally, do the whole hog together, but not many of us can spend such a large sum of cash all at once.....

The 4.1's thou would suit you better, but 4.5's allow you that little bit better crawling offroad and opportunity for bigger tyres when the lux get older......

benefit with the manual is you have a 5th gear and your 1st gear is shorter than the auto...so with 33's you would have a good package.....I reckon for daily driving you may even be able to take of in 2nd gear sometimes.

offroad you'd have more choices in low range and more control/crawl ability....yeah not for everyone, but thats what I am after.

I not trying to dictate what people should do, just trying to help with options.....Id prefer to be able to go as slow as possible and 4.5's also allow me to go to 34 or 35/10.5x15 later on without affecting performance.

end of the day its up to you.....Im n ot after building a tourer...Im trying to build an offroader...I think thats where some differences arrise as to what suits who.

[Skog07]

Quinny
Will show you how to convert theoretical tyre size to rpm.
Without this turning into a geekish post please bear with me. You will need to know tyre diametre, diff ratio and overdrive ratio and speed in kph.
For these calculations we will use.
Tyre Diametre. 32"
Diff ratio. 3.583:1
Overdrive ratio. 0.85:1
Speed. 100kph
It goes through a few stages to get the achieve the calculations.

CONVERTING Kph into M/min.

100kph X 1000m = 100000m/hr

100000 = 1666.67m/min
60minutes

Converting wheel Diametre from Imperial to Metric (m)

32" X 0.0254m = 0.812m (0.0254m = 25.4mm)

Finding the circumference of the wheel. (Rolling diametre)

0.812 X 3.143 = 2.26m (3.143 = 22/7) commonly called Py.

Calculating the wheel rpm.

1666.67m/min (100kph coverted to m/min)
2.26m = 737.45rpm

Calculating tailshaft rpm (Diff ratio X Wheel RPM)

3.583 X 737.45 = 2642rpm. (in a manual 4th gear is 1:1 so this would also be engine RPM in 4th)

Calculating engine RPM in top gear. (Tailshaft RPM X Overdrive ratio)

0.85 X 2642 = 2245rpm

Its only a theoretical calculation only so different tyre sizes can be changed along with diff ratios, even overdive ratios and speed to find what the rpm of the engine is.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Skog

[KTM525EXC]

personally, Id get the locker now because whilst your saving for gears you can use the locker in the meantime...ideally, do the whole hog together, but not many of us can spend such a large sum of cash all at once.....

The 4.1's thou would suit you better, but 4.5's allow you that little bit better crawling offroad and opportunity for bigger tyres when the lux get older......

benefit with the manual is you have a 5th gear and your 1st gear is shorter than the auto...so with 33's you would have a good package.....I reckon for daily driving you may even be able to take of in 2nd gear sometimes.

offroad you'd have more choices in low range and more control/crawl ability....yeah not for everyone, but thats what I am after.

I not trying to dictate what people should do, just trying to help with options.....Id prefer to be able to go as slow as possible and 4.5's also allow me to go to 34 or 35/10.5x15 later on without affecting performance.

end of the day its up to you.....Im n ot after building a tourer...Im trying to build an offroader...I think thats where some differences arrise as to what suits who.

i swear your a mind reader max lol that was the option i was hoping you would say lol
thanks for ya help and opinion

[Quinny34]

Skog07,

Thanks champ... will sharpen my pencil and work some of this shit out for myself and come back to you all...

Between you, Rod and Max you blokes just start making this to easy....

[Hilux Max]

Skog07,

Between you, Rod and Max you blokes just start making this to easy....

Mate, leave me your credit card and I'll make it even easier for ya...trust me BWAHAHAHAHA LMAO

[KTM525EXC]

Going by my calculations, and please correct me if i worked it out wrong anybody, but going by what you said, if you had 33's and the 4.5:1 gears in 5th gear at 100kph, you'd be doing 2,600rpm.

yes, you would be revving higher, but that is because you would have much more useable torque down lower than before.

i found this link, it calculates with the 4.5:1 in my car with 33's will do 2450rpm at 100kph. it seems pretty close because i worked out what i got now 32's at 2000rpm it says 101kph, it was spot on with in 1kph
seems like a good little tool
http://www.roversd1.nl/sd1web/wheelcalc.html

another one i found

http://www.izook.com/gearcalc.htm