Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

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Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Hilux Max on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 8:55 +0000

Guys,

I have been researching this on and off in the past 2 to 3 months but with Rod's awesome bodylift kit that he is developing nearing completion, I have gotten my backside in gear and will document for you all that are interested what I have in mind in regards to raising the ARB bar to suit the 2" bodylift.

This thread will be only about the raising of the ARB bar (unless someone buys it off me in the meantime and I get a tube one :roll: ), not the bodylift itself, I'll leave that to another thread another day.

To begin with lets have a look at the front of the current generation Hilux and the chassis mounting points where the ARB bar bolts onto -
Image

You can see the areas that I have circled in RED as the points on either side that the ARB bar is fixed to.

I have thought long and hard about how I'm going to make a bracket to fix onto the chassis and accomadate the design of the bar mount itself. There was alot of brainstorming with Rod for back up advice about where to raise the actual bar........one option was to raise it infront of the crush tube mounts which is doable but would leave the mounts themselves very exposed both visually and physically and I wouldn't be gaining any approach angle from this method. Another option was to cut the crush tube and weld it onto a plate in between 2 inches higher but this seemed abit too dodgy for my liking and I settled on the third option which is a "sandwich plate" design that will bolt onto the chassis mount on the bottom and have holes in a plate above it to accomadate the ARB Bar mounts.

Enough of all this theoretical talk, you guys wanna see pictures of whats going on here right?

To begin with, we will need to cut out a small portion of the ARB bar either side below the mounts to allow the bar to slide upwards. The portion to be cut off is only as wide as the chassis mount itself and limits this movement upwards because it is horizontal on the bar, you can see this portion highlighted in GREEN below -
Image

Next up is a design I worked out to help me understand how I was going to do this.....below, on the left is the chassis mount, centre is the ARB Bar mount (looking from the front of the vehicle) and on the far right is the combination of the two that I will make-
Image

I then requested off this forum for some assiatcne which was very kindly accepted by saum14 from Tazzy, for someone that is about to fit a bullbar if they could trace out one of these mounts for me and mail it to me so I have a 100% to scale copy on paper to work with.

Well, here below is what Saum sent to me -
Image

And I then went about making a copy and placing one above the other 50mm apart. This will show me where the boltholes and studs will go from both the chassis rail and the ARB Bar mount. I then traced an outline around both and began analysing what more I would need to do.....I came up with the design below -
Image

Now I'll try to explain it abit because it can be difficult getting your head around how this will mount up.
The adaptor plate will follow the outline of the design above and all the holes you see in it will need to be drilled into it. I have added the dotted blue line just as a reference so you can see what I did and how.

The 2 Yellow holes are where the studs poke through from the factory Chassis mount.
The bottom left hand hole is the factory chassis mount hole
The Red hole is the top left hand hole of the factory chassis mount. This one will need to be drilled through the ARB bar when fitted to assist in holding the arb bar mount onto this plate.

The 2 top left hand holes and the top right hand hole are the standard holes of the arb bar mount.
The only slight problem I will have is the hole above the left hand Yellow stud which is the lower left hand arb bar mount hole.

I "could" probably skip this last one, but to do it properly I would need to use a counter sunk head bolt so that I can tighten the nut of the left hand stud ontop of it since they end up being so close.

Guys,

I am open to your opinions, questions, criticism both constructive and not here.

I would like to hear your opinions on this, I would like to know whether you guys think I should use/make the hole for the lower left ARB mount wwhich is the one just above the left hand stud, and the other question is should I use 10mm or 8mm thick plate to make this?

One negative to this design is the fact that once fitted, the ARB bar will be sitting forward 8 or 100mm further whatever the thickness of this plate will be. There is enough thread on the studs to use a 10mm plate, but moving the bar 10mm forward is not big deal since it does sit a little below the grilled and the garnish under the headlights has a little bit of room for adjustment, so you will barely be able to tell.

EDIT:

I have made a slight revision to the original design above.....the hole above the left hand yellow stud I have decided not to use, it wont be needed. The sandwich plate will be mounted to the four original points of the chassis mount (Blue Dots in diagram below)

The ARB Bar mount will be mounted to the sandwich plate at 5 points (Red Dots in diagram below),

Where the 2 Green arrows are, those are boltholes that I will have to drill into the ARB mount and bolt through both the sandwich plate and the chassis mount.
Image
This will be very securely fitted and there wont be any chance of leverage or flex.
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby rodw on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 9:31 +0000

Max, I agree that the white hole is not required and see you have deleted it in your second picture. I would use plate that is as thick as you can get away with so maybe 10mm. The plate surrouded by the green lines you are cutting off. Will It get welded back on to stiffen it up?

And you have checked that you can get access to the bolt that goes through the red hole to tighten it up behind the chassis? I there enough clearance between the bolt head in the white hole above the red one for a bolt head between the original chassis rail and the hole you have drawn?
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Hilux Max on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 9:40 +0000

Rod,

the portion of the ARB bar surrounded by the green line that gets cut off will not be replated. I dont think it is necessary but I will confirm this once I pull the front splash guard off and have a closer look.

Yes, I will have enough room to tighten the bolt where the red hole is behind the chassis.....as you can see by the pic of the front of the hilux with bumper removed, look carefully, the mounting plate is considerably wider than the actual chassis rails so there is plenty of room. Also refer to the pic of the green portion of the bar to be cut off, there is heaps of width to the arb bar mounting face and chassis mount to allow you to tighten bolts up.
Image
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Diegothecat on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:34 +0000

It makes sence to me, I agree with rod about plate sizing the bigger the better, i dont think having the bar 10mm out further would be a problem.

The design is looking AWESOME this is making me feel better about having the bar and i was a little dis heartened when i realised the body lift would have to go on the back burner.

Good job mmaaxx cant wait to see the finished product.
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Hilux Max on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:15 +0000

Thanks for the confidence boost Diego......The bolt holes are 10mm but I will be making them 12 mm just for that little bit of adjustment......plate has to be 10mm thick, any thicker and I wont be able to make use of the factory studs to put nuts on which will weaken the mounting of it regardless that it would be thicker.

I have realised also I will need to remove my custom bashplate and cut off the front portion and weld on a new section to suit the new position of the ARB bar when complete as it mounts to the underside of the bar.

No big deal, like most jobs, just labour intensive which is where the cost comes into it when you pay someone to do it.

I have someone lined up to make these for me so all going well, my measurements I give him will be accurate, I will double check them this weekend if I get time, when I remove the bashplate and ARB splashguards to give me more room to move and measure.

I'll also try to source high tensile bolts for this just for that added bit of peace of mind and security........
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby rodw on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 3:07 +0000

mmaaxx wrote:I'll also try to source high tensile bolts for this just for that added bit of peace of mind and security........


max, That is a Must not a Try for this application...
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby McSumWay on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 3:50 +0000

Looks good Max

Just a note on the green cutoff section. That fold would add considerable strength to that plate. I notice the plate is only maybe 3-4mm thick. By placing that fold they have reduced the need to use 6-8mm plate for the same strength.

Can you attach the same size plate to the top after your conversion to return that strength?

Also I recommend staying with the 10mm holes as they have a dowling action that could be important to the crush can operation. By allowing the plate to move it could introduce a lateral shift before the crash cans operate.

Most bullbar manufacturers would add adjustment everywhere possible so the lack of it here may be important.

Just some ideas to consider and keep up the good work. i like where this is going.

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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby McSumWay on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 3:58 +0000

actually thinking about this you could use the same idea (the fold) to add stength to your adaptor plate .

Maybe use a 6mm plate with two vertical folds (or welded on flat bar) to effectively make a channel. A channel has significant extra strength without the weight and width of the flat plate.


Side benefit is you reduce the extra protrusion the bar sits forward.
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby saum14 on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 4:14 +0000

Looks interresting max , I'll be watching this to see how it goes , Maybe extend the new plate for the bullbar down to match the existing holes in the chassis plate , so u cant have a few more bolts holding ur new bar bracket , one thing i noticed with my new lux now i have the bar on is how much it flexes when u hit a pot hole or on gravel roads , can see the bar rock side to side , the old lux with arb bar didn't do that that was a 04 one
maybe might be worth while making a heaver gauge chassis - stiffening bracket like the one u have now with the arb bar
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Hilux Max on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 4:36 +0000

Thanks for the feedback guys, all being taken into account.....this arvo when I got home I removed the bashplate and front splashguard from the bar to get a better look at things......I saw that above these mounts on the inner side above the chassis rail the ARB bar has a bolt that goes downwards from top to bottom above the chassis rail on a sub frma eof the bullbar...if that makes sense......the ARB bar has a seperate mount that bolts to the chassis rail then the front portion of the actual bar itself bolts to this....this top to bottom bolt helps hold it together from the top.

wont be a problem, will just mean once raised I will need a 2 inch spacer between the two and a 2 inch longer bolt to tie it all together.

Last chance for anyone that wants to buy an ARB bar before I start minor mods this weekend? :roll:


would save me all this hassle.......
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby rodw on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 6:33 +0000

McSumWay wrote:Looks good Max

Most bullbar manufacturers would add adjustment everywhere possible so the lack of it here may be important.

Just some ideas to consider and keep up the good work. i like where this is going.

Warren


I think there is also some bar adjustment forward of this point. Normally, the clearance for holes would be + 1mm (eg, 11mm) I have sugggested to Max to go to +2mm in case his measurements are out a tad. As he has not had it apart, he does not know what clearance ARB have provided are.

Hmm just a thought here. I wonder if you could find a Hilux in a Wrecker's yard with a busted chassis and see if you could convince them to chop off the end of the chassis with a chopsaw for $20 or so so you had something concrete to measure up to.

Warren, I also like your idea of folding a lip for more strength. Max, you could achieve the same result by welding side stiffening pieces to the plate. Probably vertical ones would be the go as this is where the forces will be. Just make the plate a tad wider than it needs to be to accommodate a spine on each side edge at the back.
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Diegothecat on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 6:42 +0000

Warren, I also like your idea of folding a lip for more strength. Max, you could achieve the same result by welding side stiffening pieces to the plate. Probably vertical ones would be the go as this is where the forces will be. Just make the plate a tad wider than it needs to be to accommodate a spine on each side edge at the back.



I know its already been said sorta but instead of just welding a piece back on you could always weld a piece of 50 x 20 angle back on to the bottom then you would have your strength, but you may get some warping with the heat. Hmmm

ill keep thinking about it
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Twisty on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 7:10 +0000

The way I would have done mine (if I ended up running the arb I had), is simple, just cut the crush mounts off the main chassis mount, move them up 50mm, re-weld them on, and do some minor gusseting to suit. Bolt it all back on as per arb usually do.
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Diegothecat on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 7:16 +0000

but then you have the argument that your playin with a life saving device, and id hate to hear from a lawyer in case of an accident.
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby rodw on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 7:18 +0000

Twisty wrote:The way I would have done mine (if I ended up running the arb I had), is simple, just cut the crush mounts off the main chassis mount, move them up 50mm, re-weld them on, and do some minor gusseting to suit. Bolt it all back on as per arb usually do.


Good idea there mate, but you were cunning and got your BL approved before you mounted a bar. I think some guys want a solution to do a BL with their exisitng ARB bar and not hack the chassis.
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Hilux Max on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 7:33 +0000

Twisty, are you saying your idea is to cut the actual crush tubed mount itself...close to the bolts, then reweld it 2 inches higher and gusset it from underneath for strength? can you explain your idea?
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Twisty on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 7:41 +0000

mmaaxx wrote:Twisty, are you saying your idea is to cut the actual crush tubed mount itself...close to the bolts, then reweld it 2 inches higher and gusset it from underneath for strength? can you explain your idea?


Well you could cut it out near the bolts that hole the bumper part on, but would be left with the iugly cursh things hanging down low. I was going to cut it at the main chassis mount end, slide the hole crush tube part up the 50mm, then re-weld back on. So much simpler in my opion.

Cut the existing welds where the orange line is shown. With what was found out about the tube bars being legal-ish enough to do on a hilux, I really dont think it'd have any issues with getting through approval. I would have been happy to take mine in for approval with a arb lifted and fitted this way.
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby rodw on Fri, 06 Nov 2009 4:17 +0000

Oops, wrong crush tube. I thought you were talking about cutting the chassis. Sorry Twisty. Because I don't have an ARB bar, it is hard to understand this stuff :?
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Twisty on Fri, 06 Nov 2009 5:19 +0000

Hehe, all good Rod....
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Re: Bodylift - Raising ARB Bar

Postby Hilux Max on Fri, 06 Nov 2009 5:49 +0000

Thanks for that explanation twisty......so if you cut it on that orange line.....and rewelded it 50mm higher then maybe put a small gussett underneath for extra strength and support yeah?

the pink line in the pic below is to show that, but of course the crush tube mount would be sitting 50mm higher......or dont you guys think it would be needed?

Image

Im thinking a little bit of extra support would be good as the bar sitting abit higher would have a litle bit more leverage.

Edit: I'll be removing the splashguards out of the way tonight so Ill have a better side view of the whole setup.....been 2.5 years since I fitted the bar, hard to remember how it all exactly is setup.

Yes, if done properly, your method is easier and less work.
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