Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

[AshA]

Doesn't the existence of this document prove that Toyota know about the problem.

Has anyone considered sending that to Dept of Fair Trading to see if they could push Toyota into doing the same thing in Australia?

[Farrout]

The other day I had some white smoke on startup after parking downhill. I had my suspicions about possible leaking injector seats and as I'm a couple of week out from a Cape York trip I don't want to take any chances. I've just dropped the oil to check the pickup, please note Toyota has always serviced the vehicle up to now. This is what I found:





Looks like the seats need replacing and my oil pickup could use a clean. Not sure if I could trust the Toyota centre to do the job properly but I need to have it seen to straight away.

[DeadlyBeast]

That is disappointing. How many km Farrout?

[Farrout]

Its an early 07 model and its done 242 000 km.

[DeadlyBeast]

Has it had injector seals/seats/sheets replaced before?

[BillyGoatCountry]

thats disgusting neglect

and if your engine blew they would deny responsibility ?

i have spoken to some toyota "experts" who claimed to know nothing about the oil pickup problem

[Farrout]

Has it had injector seals/seats/sheets replaced before?

Not that I know of. I only became aware of this potential issue within the last year. I've had it since 138 000 kms and on checking none of my service invoices have charged for new seats/ labour.

[Swinder]

Mate that's piss poor from Toyota.that wouldn't be a over night build up.
I change my oil myself every 5000 kms and inspect the pick up.
By the end of this year I'm going to change the seals , seats and injectors .

[DeadlyBeast]

I have read on a thread that it can block in less than 10,000km so conceivable that it may not have been seen by the last service mech.
It does bring the nasty point - 200,000+ km and seats not replaced may be asking for trouble?
Dont get me wrong - not having a go at anyone here. I can only assume that you thought Toyo would replace the seats as a matter of routine maintenance.
Why Toyota AUS has not replaced these seats as they have done in other countries is a mystery... $$

[Farrout]

Last oil change was only 2000km ago. I'm just glad that I've found the problem and will get it fixed right away. What sort of money am I looking at to have the sump and pickup cleaned?

[Farrout]

The Hilux is booked in to get seals replaced and sump/pickup cleaned this weds. Not a cheap job but cheaper than replacing the engine. Would anyone know what the chances are of having to replace any of the injectors? I checked the feedback values on the weekend and they were within spec but if there has been blowback occurring maybe they won't be too flash when they come out?

[DeadlyBeast]

Farrout - this is from page 13 on this thread.
It could be a very expensive exercise if you have been driving around with blow-by for an extended period.
Read the entire thread then head to BDG (forum sponsor) and read up all you can on those threads. There is more information on Baileys Diesel Group website.
I'd suggest the chances of needing injector replacement are better than average but this may be a moot point if your cylinders and pistons look like this:

Good old blow by, and I know it well.
I was posting some answers to a Boxhead question over on the Rattle thread and put up some photos of the end result with this condition.







The reason why this happens : Basically, the seats (sheets) fail and the exhaust gases mix with the engine oil. This in turn causes a chemical reaction which turns the engine oil into solid material, which blocks the sump screen and starves the block of lubrication. NO LUBRICATION = NO BLOCK, PISTONS AND CRANKSHAFT.
This is an expensive repair and should be avoided by educating yourselves.
As what has been pointed out on this important thread, the screen should be checked at every oil change service. I recommend the 5,000km interval service, mainly because the EGR system hasn't changed that much in design from the late model 1KZ-TEs, and they were 5,000km intervals.



These are the seats that cause the problem when they distort, especially the old copper seats that had not been coated. Late 2007, TMC redesigned the seats, and that lead to the seat on the right. The cooper seats have been deleted from the parts catalogue worldwide. 30011 is the new number, the old one was 30010.
In Australia we had the situation where a lot of dealerships did the valve clearance by audible means. My personal opinion on this was to keep the price down in line with fixed price servicing which most of us outside of Toyota Service cannot compete with.
In GSIC, it specifically states that the injector sheets (seats) should be replaced with the valve clearance services under warranty at the 40,000km and 80,000km services.
Unfortunately, this was not done to many vehicles which lead to this problem being common place. Well, at least in my world, and other diesel fitters who are members of the AADS.



Some people get mixed up with the seal, which is an O ring type half way up the injector shaft. You can see on this photo that the blow by has taken out that seal. All the seal does is stop the engine oil leaking out of the injector port, as there is an outlet within the cylinder head that allows engine oil into the port to help cool the bottom half of the injector. The seats are there to block off and seal the hole where the injector nozzle goes through on the cylinder head and thus the block bores.
The Roo.

[ONBAGZ]

Had mine done at Toyota this week in the single cab, "they claim to have cleaned it anyway"
Got a diesel mechanic friend stopping by this week to have a good look at it. Shame when you can't trust you're local Toyota

[Edededdy]

Just letting everyone know that I had the injectors replaced this last weekend, thanks to TalkTheRoo!
A very professional job and the D4D is sounding much happier with the new Baileys Injectors and fuel pipes.

He also helped to clean out the EGR amongst other things, including new fuel filter, coolant, etc, so everything is looking nice and clean. I will fit a catch can ASAP to prevent it from happening again.

I also want to give a special shout out to the Roo for all the help and advice he has given, as he has helped me in many ways. I would also like to thank all the other members on this forum who give such professional advice and help for free to the members on the forum. I have gone from knowing almost nothing about Hiluxes and diesel engines, to feeling like I can get along fine now.

It has been a trying 8 months since the blowby destroyed my engine forcing me to replace it with a second hand one. However, with the advice, instruction, and support from the forum members, I feel like I have crossed the final hurdle and can now begin to enjoy the beast without worrying that it is about to blow up again.

Guys, if you are a new Hilux owner, heed the warnings re checking the oil pickup screen yourself. Do not trust anyone else to do it. It is not hard, do a little research. I only found out about this particular issue after it had happened to me and I had trusted a dealership to do the work after purchasing the Hilux.

[Farrout]

I got my Hilux back today with new injector seals and a cleaned sump! The oil pickup wasn't pretty:



The original copper washers found to be leaking on no1 and no3 cylinders. The mechanic checked the cylinders and block as best as he could with the sump removed and couldn't find any damage. She is running fine so I'm hoping all will be ok. I'll be doing oil changes and checking my oil pickup myself from now on!

[highoctane]

Geez that looks pretty horrendous. I reckon you would be lucky to get to the next service without major failure. Very lucky you found it when you did.

[DeadlyBeast]

Did the mechanic use a scope or do a compression test?

[aandy]

My local Toyota has changed my oil at least once without removing the sump plug, I suppose they sucked it out...
So i can guarantee they did not check the pick up screen that time, I wonder if they ever have?

I do my own oil change at 5000 anyway so have always checked it. Now its out of warranty I will be doing all my own servicing, unfortunately I just can't trust them.

[Farrout]

Did the mechanic use a scope or do a compression test?

Good suggestions, I don't know whether they used a scope and no compression test was done. Wouldn't there be other signs of damage; noise and smoke or oil consumption now pickup is clean?

[shane308]

What sort of prices are people paying to have the oil pick up cleaned ?, I've already put the BDG injectors and seals in and gave the oil pickup the best clean I could through the sump plug hole but will have to get it done properly now.