Sway Bar Removal

[Hilux Max]

I removed me swaybar today as part of my front suspension research and bashplate investigation to see how the hilux would drive and how much more, if any uptravel there would be when suspension was compressed.
Here's what I found.

I measured the front of the vehicle before and after removal and after removal the bottom of the numberpate (which I used as a refernce point) was 5 to 6 mm higher than before.

Also, I took her to the back paddocks here and parked her crossed up with the left hand rear up on a mound, forcing the front right hand tyre hard into the guard.

With wheels straight ahead this is what it looked like-



Just missing the bullbar on the front and just touching on the top centre



At the rear of the guard when tyres straight ahead it was just touching the rib on the inner plastic trim.

Alot more uptravel without the swaybar fitted. I'd say atleast 15mm maybe 20mm.



With the steering turned and the tyre at its closest to the bodymount, it was just touching



This mount will be getting the Maxi treatment and some cut and welded to trim it back.
Before the swaybar removal, when flexed on the same mound the same way, I had a good 10-12mm of clearance all around the tyre at the rear of the guards.
Interesting to see how much higher the tyre has been able to tuck in.



Offroad, each side works more independantly and actually fells better going over mounds and ruts. On the road there is a little bit more front body roll but when you drive like a grandpa it's not gonna be a problem



Now when the vehicle was crossed up like in the first few pics, and the front right tyre tucked into the guard, the bump stop was just lightly pressing on the Lower Control Arm, and the coils were pretty much fully compressed.

In the future, I'll be putting a spacer on the bump stop, or getting after market ones, and limit the front uptravel by about 15mm.

Honestly, unless someone can prove me otherwise, a big 33 inch tyre like I have (33.1" going by specs) with full suspension compression is as big as your gonna be able to get in our guards without either a drop bracket lift ir a very stiff front suspension that doesnt give "full" compression.

[KTM525EXC]

thats awsome max how hard is it 2 get on and off? like is it possible too keep it on for normal driving and take it off when ya know ya gonna be doing some serious off road. gr8 work m8
Troy

[Hilux Max]

Not hard to get on or off, better if you have a hand from someone as the last thing you wanna do is drop a side onto the driveshaft boot and tear it.

I dont know of anyone making sway bar quick disconnects for these yet nor the Taco's in the states.

Its pretty much a try it out and see for yourself kind of thing. Some may like it, some wont.

If my front suspension was stiffer, it wouldnt tuck in so much higher yet I'd still have the benefit of each side working more independantly of the other.

Bit of a research project and trial and error.

[KTM525EXC]

so do ya think ya will leave it off? defenatly like the increase in up travel does it feel a softer ride?

[Hilux Max]

so do ya think ya will leave it off? defenatly like the increase in up travel does it feel a softer ride?

For now, I will leave it off and see how I go with daily driving. Im gonna look into either fitting an big washer as a spacer below the bump stop to limit the up travel just enough so I dont hit the top of the guard.

Not too worried about the body mount, once I got the top of the guard cleared, Ill trim the mount accordingly and then do another suspension flex test to see how it all goes.

I got a pretty hardcore trim to the Otways end of Feb, and I want the front suspension and bashplate sorted by then. Thats me time limit and goal.

[KTM525EXC]

shit those tyres look good is your bbar flexed up to the flare in the 1st pic?

[Hilux Max]

Nah, its just the angle and the way the sunlight is reflecting off it. Looks like it thou hugh?

I got a good 10mm gap between the flare and bullbar.

I think after all this, I may be tempted to pull the flares off for that extra almost 10mm clearance.

[Bull]

That's good mmaaxx, well documented and a worthwhile gain. I see the the driveshaft on the side on full bump is virtually level. It shows how these IFS cars only use half (if that) of their potential wheel travel. Have you, or can you, measure the font wheel travel (as opposed to shock travel) that you have now?

[Hilux Max]

That's good mmaaxx, well documented and a worthwhile gain. I see the the driveshaft on the side on full bump is virtually level. It shows how these IFS cars only use half (if that) of their potential wheel travel. Have you, or can you, measure the font wheel travel (as opposed to shock travel) that you have now?

I probably could, thou Id have to get the hilux in the same position as I did on that mound with the front suspension as compressed as possible....then measure the hub centre to the flare, then get the same tyre off the ground and do the same measurement.

I dont know how I can compress the suspension like that in me garage so it'd have to wait till I go out again. Id be interested too.

I do know that when I was removing the swaybar, when jacking up the hilux, from rest to the point jacked up where the tyres "just" begin to loose traction with the concrete and you can force them to turn with your hands was exactly 4 inches. so Im guessing that it would be close to that again with uptravel.

[KTM525EXC]

do ya recon it gives a softer ride?

[MickR]

I did have my sway bar removed was much better off road with articulation and on road handling i thought was not too bad,
Then i put the sway bar back in and you could tell the difference alot more body roll that i had just put up with so it will stay in for now, but it's not that much trouble to remove if you were going bush for a weekend.

[Hilux Max]

The ride on the front end is abit softer, and, atleast in my case, you can see the increase bodyroll on the front end.

Im not throwing it around corner and drifting so it doesnt bother me.

I removed the swaybar in my previous 03 hilux, and I reckon it was heaps better on that aswell.

My main issue removing it was to gain more clearance under the front for a custom bashplate, and to get each side moving more independantly of each other, the side effect of that is I have to limit my uptravel now with extended bump stops and some trimming of the body mount.

cant have it all and you have to weigh up the options.

Hopefully the bodylift gets approved this year, that'll heaps things heaps. 1" bodylift will make my setup almost perfect.

[Bull]

The bodylift may help your tyre clearance, but what about trimming your mudguards instead? Bear in mind that I havn't got my Hilux yet so it may not be doable (spelling?) but it's what I have planned for it.
The body mount on the chassis looks easy enough to slice the side off and then plate.

[Hilux Max]

trust me, if you saw my guards you'd see just how much Ive trimmed to make the 285's work with the sway bar fitted,

I got a few more tricks up my sleeve and there is a "little" left thats trimmable.

[Hilux Max]

Ok,

got another update here, wasnt sure on whether to start a new thread about modifying the bump stop or not, but since its all related here with comparison pics I thought Id stick with it in this thread for those that are still interested.

First thing was to go to Supercheap and get a new Creeper, was getting sick of using cardboard all the time to lie down on

I jumped under the truck and unless you have an 80mm socket or spanner of some sort, your best bet will be to use a hammer and a chisel to knock on one of the corners of the bumpstop surround, to tap it loose. Once loose it comes out by hand.

As you can see by the pics below, the thread that is available is 17mm long. Not including the bit ontop of the thread , just the actual thread that holds.

I had some large 6mm washers lying around and decided to use these as my bump stop extenders. Sittin ontop of the bump stop it gives me 11mm of thread to still use.


Personally, I wouldnt be going any more than this. And I used Loctite on the thread before re-installing.

[b]NOTE: For those of you that didnt know, whatever distance you add to the bumpstop, it will double at the wheel/tyre. So my 6mm spacer will limit my uptravel by 12mm.[/b]

Heres a pic of it installed on the vehicle-


I then went to the same paddock I went to yesterday and backed it up on angle on the same mound to compare results with yesterdays. Heres what I found-

I have eliminated the tyre touching the top of the flare by the exact amount that I wanted, that being 12mm from the 6mm spacer. You can compare the difference with the pics earlier on in the thread.


Below you can see how the bump stop now looks. When comparing this pic to the before pic earlier on the inner side of the bumpstop is slightly pressed in abit more. This is good because it works as a safety mechanism to stop the actual strut front bottoming out before the bumpstop, which can cause strut failure and possibly worse.


And finally, the clearance at the rear of the bottom mount under full steering lock and full suspension compression.

As you can see the very edge of the rubber sidebiters is "just" touching....not as bad as yesterday but touching non the less.

This will require trimming as mentioned previously.

Conclusion: I have achieved more uptravel even with the bumpstop spacer installed I reckon that there would be about 15 to 20mm of increased up travel atleast. Each side of the front suspension works more independantly of each and a softer ride offroad. I have more clearance underneath for an high clearance custom bashplate that I will get onto working on soon.

And in reply to Bull's request for a measurement of the total front suspension travel I have done that as well.

Bull mate, after the 6mm spacer install(15mm uptravel reduction) I have exactly 4 inches of down travel and 4.7" of uptravel equating to 8.7" of total suspension travel.

Thats .7 of an inch more than what Wizard advertises their kit at. Yeah, I may not have as expensive components but the results I think speak for themselves.

[rodw]

Well done mate, the other tool that would be handy would be a stilson (pipe) wrench that a plumber uses to take these suckers off.

Got to put this down to the cheapest mod you could ever do

[Hilux Max]

well all this thread is stuff anybody could do themselves. If you had thinner tyres, you could make used of the extra inch of clearance that there is above the tyre inside the actual guard. The width of my tyres is one of the limiting factors and why it almost hits the flare.

By trimming the rear mount "properly" I reckon now you'd be able to fit a 34/10.5 x 15 or 16 tyre in there will full suspension travel.

something for somebody else to try....(Rod: hint, hint )

[KTM525EXC]

so guys with 29'' 31'' and 32'' tyres shouldent have 2 extend there bumpstops unless there coil or strut is bottoming is that right?
Troy

[rodw]

I don't think so Troy. This keeps Max's tyres away from the panel work. If the bump stop is hitting on full compression now, and the tyre is clear of the panels, then I don't think they are required, but if on full compresion the bump stop still has clearance, the shock has probably bottomed out and you would need to look at this, Max might have a better idea after his research.

Sorry Max, a set of play tyres is a bit down the track for me, so I'll stay on 31's for now. The bank balance is still recovering from my NZ holiday and Xmas, but it's on the plan.

[Bull]

Bull mate, after the 6mm spacer install(15mm uptravel reduction) I have exactly 4 inches of down travel and 4.7" of uptravel equating to 8.7" of total suspension travel.

So if you add in the extra 15mm (0.6") you'd have 9.3" travel. Thanks, that's pretty good aye.

The results interest me because it's what I will do to mine. I don't think I've ever left a sway-bar on one of my off-road cars.

Just to set the record straight for anyone interested in doing this, it doesn't increase wheel travel. Wheel travel is determined by the length of the strut and the bumpstop. All it does is free everything up. It is quite achievable to bottom out one or both bumpstops with the swaybar in place. Good thing mmaaxx didn't do this before the spacers went on or the tyres would have carved into the 'guards.