Tap/Knock Through Steering, Am I Just Going Crazy?

[HandsomeLux]

Hi Everyone,
Hoping someone can help me figure out what is going on with the steering in my 2018 SR Dual Cab...or maybe just tell me I am crazy if need be...

Background
This is the first Hilux/IFS 4WD I've had (had an 80 series cruiser before). I've had it for just over a year and it is still bone stock. Since first getting it, I've noticed something I think is weird with the steering which has been very tricky to describe, kind of an exaggerated steering feedback/tapping feeling/knock/looseness through the steering wheel. I'm not talking about standard steering wheel 'pull' over uneven surfaces but a tap/kick/knocking feeling that goes with the normal 'pull' type of feedback as you drive over a bump. The wheel also seems to 'pull' more aggressively than I have experienced in other vehicles over corrugations etc. I'm not that familiar with mechanics and am certainly no steering specialist but if someone asked me to guess based on the feeling of it, I'd say it feels like there is some kind of play or looseness in the steering column/damper (if that's possible). Toyota reckon it's nothing at all but it's been grating on me now for a while...Could this just be standard in IFS 4WDs? Has anyone else experienced this? (I did search before posting this but couldn't find this exact issue).

Details
I can feel it most when going slowly (0 to 20kph) and when the steering wheel is centered or slightly turned in either direction. On hard lock, say turning into a driveway, it isn't an issue. It's worst when driving over uneven road, bumps or slightly cracked road. As a test, I drove down a lane way with bad tarmac which I know makes it act up, centered the steering wheel and locked my hands as firmly as possible. What really bothered me was that even when the steering wheel wasn't moving, I could feel a side to side bouncing/tap coming through the wheel, like the wheels/tyres were moving side to side within a certain range without the steering wheel moving at all.

Whenever I go to my dealer and bring it up again, they look at me like I am crazy and I called a local (and very well respected) steering specialist and the bloke there basically said it was unlikely to be a real issue if the car is so new/stock...

Any ideas would be much appreciated and hope you're all staying well out there with everything going on at the moment.

[numberplate]

doesn't sound normal to me , and mine doesn't do anything like that. RAV 4s had the same issue a couple of models ago , and the fix / recall was to replace the jointed shaft between the steering column and the steering rack.
could be a manufacturing defect in the steering rack or its internal valving , who knows.

[hylux]

I had this on a 60series and an old 2003 mazda 6. The mazda was actually a recall. It was the slip joint in the steering coloum. I fixed the mazda again last year. The grease dried up.
Its a simple fix and would take 30 minutes if you wanted to try.
1. Find the slip joint. In the mazda and my 2010 hilux its under the dash going into the fire wall. The old 60 wss in the engine bay
2. Tilt steering wheel to fully up.
3. Locate slip joint and mark both so you know where they realign when putting together.
4. Unbolt the outer slip joint end
5. Remove by pulling outer section.
6. Clean then regrease with new silicon or lithium grease. Cant remember the correct type but any grease will do to prove the fault
7. Put back together aligning the marks you made.

This may explain
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=am_4KlNYmuU

[HandsomeLux]

doesn't sound normal to me , and mine doesn't do anything like that. RAV 4s had the same issue a couple of models ago , and the fix / recall was to replace the jointed shaft between the steering column and the steering rack.
could be a manufacturing defect in the steering rack or its internal valving , who knows.

Thanks for responding. Yep, pretty annoying, I'm going to investigate it further and will post updates.

[HandsomeLux]

I had this on a 60series and an old 2003 mazda 6. The mazda was actually a recall. It was the slip joint in the steering coloum. I fixed the mazda again last year. The grease dried up.
Its a simple fix and would take 30 minutes if you wanted to try.
1. Find the slip joint. In the mazda and my 2010 hilux its under the dash going into the fire wall. The old 60 wss in the engine bay
2. Tilt steering wheel to fully up.
3. Locate slip joint and mark both so you know where they realign when putting together.
4. Unbolt the outer slip joint end
5. Remove by pulling outer section.
6. Clean then regrease with new silicon or lithium grease. Cant remember the correct type but any grease will do to prove the fault
7. Put back together aligning the marks you made.

This may explain
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=am_4KlNYmuU

Thanks mate, I am going to have a go. I also found a few more videos based on yours that might help. When I get to the bottom of it, I will post any solutions that I find as I go.

[numberplate]

can you let us know what you find ? better still take photos as proof , so you can let head office know as well.

[HandsomeLux]

Hi All,

Quick update: As both numberplate and hylux suggested, and after watching a few videos online, I got down under the steering column and sure enough, if I hold the slip joint and move the steering wheel side to side quickly, there is knocking/bumping/play between the two. Weirdly, the whole shroud that the slip joint sits in moves around too. Not sure that is kosher.

Had a busy week at work so I haven't been able to take it into the dealer but will take your advice here numberplate and will take photos and video before letting Toyota touch it. Someone I know has recommended a knowledgeable workshop tech at a local dealer so I am going to take it to him and see what he says. I'll post some pics this afternoon of the joint.
Thanks

[numberplate]

Hi All,

If I hold the slip joint and move the steering wheel side to side quickly, there is knocking/bumping/play between the two. Weirdly, the whole shroud that the slip joint sits in moves around too. Not sure that is kosher.

a tiny amount of play in the splines should be expected , otherwise they would bind. Maybe they are supposed to be greased , and yours wasn't. Glad you are narrowing down the problem

[hylux]

The dreaded tail shaft slip joint bug has a love child growing in your car

[HandsomeLux]

Hi All,
Photo as promised. Please let me know if it doesn't post correctly as this is my first pic posted here.

Interesting development: I tested the joint a bit more and found that when the steering wheel is turned slightly left of center the shroud at the base (where you see the green ring) is completely solid, does not move or have any play as I described in the last post. Only when centered or slightly right does this happen. Does anyone know what is on the underside of that foam that the shaft goes through?

I'm booked in with Toyota on Wednesday so will update then.



https://imghostr.net/image/steering-joint.RSW9y

[HandsomeLux]

I titled this thread 'Tap/Knock Through Steering, Am I Just Going Crazy?'...and apparently I am just going crazy.

I went to Toyota today, the diagnostic specialist went for drive with me, he agreed that he felt something through the steering wheel over some corrugations and the driveway of the dealership but nothing out of 'spec'. We got back and he spoke to his managers. Managers came outside and said the young bloke doesn't think there is anything wrong but will put it up on the hoist just to check no components are touching etc.

Apparently the steering is all as it should be and nothing is wrong with it. They said that they compared with a new one and it is the same level of play in the intermediate shaft. Only thing I can really do I suppose is ask for a test drive of a new one and see what feeling I get through the steering before I take the issue any further.

Sorry all, I wish I had a solution to post here but no such luck for now.

[numberplate]

all you can do is compare it with another one. With my car there is no such knock , and I cant feel any play either

[Bushwalker8]

Mine doesn't have any knocking and I can't detect any play whatsoever between the wheel and shaft at the firewall in the straight ahead position.

[HandsomeLux]

Hi All,
Well, four months later I finally resolved the issue.

I raised the issue with Toyota four times during the course of the last 18 months. The first two times I was told, there is nothing wrong with it. The third time, the young diagnostic/tech agreed he could feel something in the steering while we were driving together. We got back from the drive and he had a chat to his two managers, who then came outside and informed me that "...the young bloke says there is nothing wrong with it but we'll put it up on the hoist anyway to make sure". As you'd expect, they sent me away with an "everything looks fine".

Fourth and final time; after the steering play grating on me all weekend, I finally had some time and a helper to move the steering wheel while I got under there myself. We were able to produce and video the knocking noise and the play in the shaft and video the components. Took it to Toyota and showed them, they said it was within tolerance and then put it up on the hoist to see if it still knocked, it was even worse.

After arguing that despite there being play that it might be within tolerance, they set about changing the intermediate shaft. The next day the service manager said they thought the problem was still there and weren't happy with it so changed the entire steering rack. Problem solved!

I'm thrilled that in the day since getting it back I have not experienced the play over bumps or potholes but just when I thought I was all done, realised that they had put the steering wheel back on and misaligned the splines so it looks like the wheel is turning left when centered! Anyway 90% there now and should be an easy fix. Apparently I wasn't going crazy after all! Appreciate the help from everyone.

[DeadlyBeast]

Thanks for posting the outcome. Your persistence paid off
Pity the delearship ran you around like that.
It's a common story of denial - highly possible the tech knew it was the steering rack before you dilegently presented photographic evidence.
If they replaced the rack they should have done a wheel allignment. Your steering wheel is an indication that the rack ends / tie rods have changed geometry and your tyres are most likely now unevenly wearing

[HandsomeLux]

Thanks for posting the outcome. Your persistence paid off
Pity the delearship ran you around like that.
It's a common story of denial - highly possible the tech knew it was the steering rack before you dilegently presented photographic evidence.
If they replaced the rack they should have done a wheel allignment. Your steering wheel is an indication that the rack ends / tie rods have changed geometry and your tyres are most likely now unevenly wearing

Thanks DeadlyBeast, I'm taking it back tomorrow for an alignment and to see whether the steering wheel needs to be reset. They reckon they sent it for an alignment after the job but there are no marks on the tyres. The steering is left hand down about 10 degrees so it's on the cusp of being one spline out apparently. See how I go!

[Nam_hilux]

Hi. Sorry for reopening an old thread, but I believe I have a similar problem that has been driving me crazy for over a year.

I have a 2016 hilux model. V6, but believe the diesels steering and underpinnings to be identical.

Bakkie steering was very solid and well planted ( though a bit harsh) up until 90k km. At this point it has started developing a steering knock identical to your description. I have had this vehicle into the dealer at least 10 times over the last year and they just cannot seem to find the problem.

I need to mention that at 100k km I did replace my entire suspension with tough dog adjustable shocks. Makes the hilux ride like an absolute dream, but the steering knock stills persists.

My dealer have really tried to get the problem sorted. On the latest visits they swapped the entire suspension out with standard hilux on the floor as well as the wheels and tyres. Just to rule that out. Of course that made no difference seeing as the knock had started before I installed the suspension. My bakkie still has a warranty, so after troubleshooting for 3 days they went ahead and replaced entire steering rack with a new one under warranty. Made absolutely no difference.

This is driving me so crazy that I am at the point of wanting to sell the vehicle.

Any advice for me on trying to identify an steering intermediate shaft fault?