Advice on Engine Shudder

Turbo, Manifolds, Exhaust, Intercooler, Internals etc

Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Denda on Wed, 08 Jan 2025 12:26 +0000

Hey everyone, scratching my head over this one :|

My D4D (Automatic) has an intermittent shudder coming from the engine or the gearbox, it is hard to determine. It only occurs just before coming to a complete stop, and feels like the engine is shuddering side to side. If I let the vehicle roll while still having minor brake force the shudder intensifies - it will continue if I let go of the brakes completely and let the engine idle while rolling. It feels almost like it is unbalanced, with some shudder making it feel like the engine might implode. The shudder will disappear as I accelerate driving off. I have gathered that it tends to occur when stopping on an up-hill (I think).

Some details on the engine/drivetrain:
- 520,000 km on engine.
- Gearbox fully rebuilt at 490,000.
- EGR blocked.
- Top end of the engine has been machined and rebuilt.
- Snorkel & 4" exhaust.
- Injectors replaced at 450,000.
- Engine mounts have been replaced at 480,000.
- Serviced at every 10,000km.
- Drives on 33" tyres.


Other than that the engine is stock. If anyone has any clues to what it could be that would be great before I take it to the diesel specialist.
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Rob_Wood on Wed, 08 Jan 2025 2:04 +0000

The first 2 things that came to mind were the ABS (this quickly petered out as I read further).
And
The engine mounts. You mentioned they've been replaced recently. Check all the associated bolts are in place and tight.
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Chopps on Wed, 08 Jan 2025 5:24 +0000

4 inch exhaust!!???
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Gipsy on Thu, 09 Jan 2025 4:52 +0000

Sounds more like engine tune... With a 4" exhaust it is probably running lean on idle as the ecu doesn't know about the exhaust and presumably the larger dump pipe so it's trying to compensate for the increased flow by reducing fuel injected... Take it to a good dyno tuner and maybe consider an ecu flash to match the system. ;)
How's the engine idle speed? Should be around 750rpm
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
My 2013 auto D4D DC SR5, prefilter, 3" exhaust and Chip with egt probe, stock SR5 rims with Toyo Open Country AT2 265/65R/17's
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Denda on Thu, 09 Jan 2025 11:31 +0000

Rob_Wood wrote:The first 2 things that came to mind were the ABS (this quickly petered out as I read further).
And
The engine mounts. You mentioned they've been replaced recently. Check all the associated bolts are in place and tight.


I'll have a look at the engine mounts that they are all tight
Denda
 
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Denda on Thu, 09 Jan 2025 11:32 +0000

Gipsy wrote:Sounds more like engine tune... With a 4" exhaust it is probably running lean on idle as the ecu doesn't know about the exhaust and presumably the larger dump pipe so it's trying to compensate for the increased flow by reducing fuel injected... Take it to a good dyno tuner and maybe consider an ecu flash to match the system. ;)
How's the engine idle speed? Should be around 750rpm


My idle is around 750/800rpm and I wouldn't think the exhaust has anything to do with it since it occurs on my sister's ute who has an identical model with a smaller 3" on it with a similar issue occurring. What do you think?
Denda
 
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Denda on Thu, 09 Jan 2025 11:33 +0000

Chopps wrote:4 inch exhaust!!???


Sounds meaty :twisted:
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Gipsy on Fri, 10 Jan 2025 4:43 +0000

Denda wrote:
Gipsy wrote:Sounds more like engine tune... With a 4" exhaust it is probably running lean on idle as the ecu doesn't know about the exhaust and presumably the larger dump pipe so it's trying to compensate for the increased flow by reducing fuel injected... Take it to a good dyno tuner and maybe consider an ecu flash to match the system. ;)
How's the engine idle speed? Should be around 750rpm


My idle is around 750/800rpm and I wouldn't think the exhaust has anything to do with it since it occurs on my sister's ute who has an identical model with a smaller 3" on it with a similar issue occurring. What do you think?


Well I think if it's the same as your sister's ute then maybe it's normal?? :? BTW I have a 3" exhaust and mine DOESN'T do what you describe. :shock:
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
My 2013 auto D4D DC SR5, prefilter, 3" exhaust and Chip with egt probe, stock SR5 rims with Toyo Open Country AT2 265/65R/17's
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Denda on Fri, 10 Jan 2025 8:18 +0000

Gipsy wrote:
Denda wrote:
Gipsy wrote:Sounds more like engine tune... With a 4" exhaust it is probably running lean on idle as the ecu doesn't know about the exhaust and presumably the larger dump pipe so it's trying to compensate for the increased flow by reducing fuel injected... Take it to a good dyno tuner and maybe consider an ecu flash to match the system. ;)
How's the engine idle speed? Should be around 750rpm


My idle is around 750/800rpm and I wouldn't think the exhaust has anything to do with it since it occurs on my sister's ute who has an identical model with a smaller 3" on it with a similar issue occurring. What do you think?


Well I think if it's the same as your sister's ute then maybe it's normal?? :? BTW I have a 3" exhaust and mine DOESN'T do what you describe. :shock:


Unfortunately not normal, just happens to be an issue on both our utes - however mine is more frequent than on her Hilux.
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Gipsy on Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:02 +0000

I noticed that you changed the injectors... Were they coded correctly?
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
My 2013 auto D4D DC SR5, prefilter, 3" exhaust and Chip with egt probe, stock SR5 rims with Toyo Open Country AT2 265/65R/17's
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Chopps on Fri, 10 Jan 2025 7:32 +0000

Denda wrote:
Chopps wrote:4 inch exhaust!!???


Sounds meaty :twisted:

Maybe so but it will cause all sorts of exhaust gas flow issues, reduced fuel efficiency and most likely the engine shudder you describe.
Anything over 2.75" will start to cause problems for a D4D
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby dave g on Sat, 11 Jan 2025 1:35 +0000

To big exhaust does not have any back pressure
2nd does the blanking plate have a 7mm hole drill in it
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby 241steve on Sun, 12 Jan 2025 5:33 +0000

is back pressure the right word for what is happeneing ? Wouldn't it be more of a scavenging effect as in the speed of the gases leaving the other cyclinders help suck the gases from the cyclinder the with the valves open?
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Chopps on Tue, 14 Jan 2025 6:29 +0000

Back pressure may be a little misnomer but a common word to explain the problem.
Turbo D4D engines need exhaust gases to escape with velocity - the higher the velocity the better the performance
Conceptually, Imagine a blow dart being an exhaust gas molecule, your mouth the turbo, lungs your engine.
A blow dart pipe needs to be narrow - sometimes only as wide as a drinking straw
You take a deep breath in developing a lot of potential power, channel that air into your mouth puffing your cheeks then expel air form lungs as puffed cheeks collapse forcing the blowdart down the pipe ....
Now imagine trying to blow that same dart through a 4" pipe

Your turbo will over-spool and possibly send an error code to your ecu
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby dave g on Tue, 14 Jan 2025 6:32 +0000

2 cars with the same mod having the same thing happening
Call Berrima DIESEL there 4x4 specials
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Denda on Fri, 31 Jan 2025 11:52 +0000

Chopps wrote:Back pressure may be a little misnomer but a common word to explain the problem.
Turbo D4D engines need exhaust gases to escape with velocity - the higher the velocity the better the performance
Conceptually, Imagine a blow dart being an exhaust gas molecule, your mouth the turbo, lungs your engine.
A blow dart pipe needs to be narrow - sometimes only as wide as a drinking straw
You take a deep breath in developing a lot of potential power, channel that air into your mouth puffing your cheeks then expel air form lungs as puffed cheeks collapse forcing the blowdart down the pipe ....
Now imagine trying to blow that same dart through a 4" pipe

Your turbo will over-spool and possibly send an error code to your ecu


Okay cheers mate. Might chuck on a stock exhaust and see if it disappears.
In your opinion is 3" okay? Or still needs a re-tune?
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Denda on Fri, 31 Jan 2025 11:53 +0000

Have you got any links for good 2.75" exhausts?
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby Chopps on Sun, 02 Feb 2025 5:42 +0000

Denda wrote:Have you got any links for good 2.75" exhausts?


https://beauexhausts.com.au/product/toyota-hilux-2005-2015-3l-d-4d-turbo-diesel-exhaust/
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Re: Advice on Engine Shudder

Postby ptommo59 on Sun, 02 Feb 2025 9:00 +0000

Have you checked if you have any pending codes when the vehicle has the issue as that may be a clue?

Also if it happens regular enough and you can get access to a Computer with Techstream. Do a Snapshot of the Engine Live Data with the ALL Data option selected on the dropdown box at bottom when its OK and again when its playing up and compare as it may show what is changing between cases and help you isolate the cause.
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