How to drive Hilux V6 for economy - should I buy a V6 Hilux

[Gulfstream8]

How to drive the Hilux V6 for economy --------- buy a Diesel
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Sorry just joking as I know how some of the Diesel guys like to hammer the V6
The 1GR-FE V6 gets a bad rap for fuel economy and there is no argument that if you put both the Gen 7 Diesel and Petrol side by side unloaded with the same size tyres and both driven for fuel economy or both driven like you stole it the fuel usage deficit would ultimately reflect the similar difference in the official combined fuel economy cycles = 9.3/100 for the Diesel and 13/100 for the petrol ----- Gen 7

In reality usage
I have lots of mates with the Gen 7 Diesel and in-reality the "Fuel Usage" differential is not as bad when the V6 is not being flogged but the Diesel is being driven hard to keep up with the V6. With a whopping 33nw (1GR-FE Auto 376NW) more than the Diesel and a full 340nw for the petrol just off idle the V6 closes the gap with my mates who have to drive their Diesels hard to keep up with traffic which ultimately causes the Diesel to use more fuel than normal.

So in this instance it closes the gap to where the V6 is only using about 1 to 2 liters per 100klm more than the Diesel --- but the V6 has to be driven correctly to achieve this. You have to remember the V6 is up against it with 4.0Lt of engine compared to only 3.0Lt, and on top of this its efficiency is improved with "Turbo Charging", "intercooloing" and the two most important things compression ignition extracting more power and the fact Diesel has more energy.

Why did I buy the V6
For me at the time (Diesel V's Petrol) it was a hard choice as I grew up on a Cattle Property and I was surrounded with Diesel fitters. But I was told by a Toyota insider at the time (2006) "go for the 1GR-FE V6 its bullet proof, made in Japan and comes from the same Lexus engineering heritage (derivatives of the 1GR-FE are used in Lexus and Toyota) and he was unsure of the new D4D's durability". As it tuned out he was right on all counts as some 1GR-FE's are now starting to see 800,000klms with little or no problems. Also you get the best Transmission (A750) out of all the Hilux range and more Torque and KW at all RPM compared to the Diesel. And environmentally this was the first true Pick-Up or work ute that was Euro 4 back in 2005 --- and no carcinogenic Diesel particulates to kill you

Also my V6 Hilux was $7,000 less than a D4D at the time and I did not have to wait for it and to top it off Diesel is now so much more expensive than petrol at service stations I have found using 2 Lt or more per 100Klm than the D4D is not an issue. Plus at the end of a 12 hour day its such a nice engine to drive home!

Torque is the equalizer
Torque is so important to anything that hauls a load and the 1GR-FE was built specifically for that. If you look at the Toyota provided graph below the 1GR-FE is producing more Torque than the Gen 7 D4D just off idle - in fact the Diesel cannot match the Torque or Power of the V6 anywhere in its entire rev range. The 1GR-FE is amazing in the amount of Torque its able to create just off idle considering its not a "Diesel" and does not have some kind of "Forced Induction".

Below if you are a V6 owner your now probably starting to understand that to drive this engine correctly you need to use the low down torque and use revs only when needed like passing or embarrassing that Ranger driver ----- yes drive it like a traditional Diesel.


Torque V's HP
You need both and both play a part in the drive-ability of any vehicle and manufactures try to give us the perfect mix - Drive-ability, Economy and load carrying. Conversely too much or not enough of either can severally affect economy and that is why when a trucking fleet goes to purchase a new Prime mover the Engine power and torque will be dictated by what loads they carry on a day to day business.

Torque and HP simplified --- so please dont hammer me this is very basic
Max Torque is effectively what say a Power Lifter can maximum bench-press
Max HP is how fast that Power Lifter can bench-press.

So with that in mind and the numbers above that is why the V6 accelerates faster than the Diesel (in basic terms)

And here is where it gets interesting - at 343nw for the Diesel and 376nw for the V6 Petrol when you start loading up the vehicles its the V6 thats performance and economy are affected less due to being "Stronger". So if you drive for economy in the Petrol V6 you would have to be nailing the Diesel now to keep up and once again the difference in the fuel use closes but admittly the Diesel may or still use less - but not as much as you think.

Its like Mal Meniga or Lance Franklin - they run at the same pace loaded or unload

At 90, 100 and 110Klm my economy does not change but as soon as my mates in the D4D go over 90Klm their using more and more fuel. The faster you go the more wind resistance but with 33nw in total more then the D4D and 15nw more at cruise (100klm) 1GR-FE V6 is not affected by this as much as the D4D - but once again the gap closes and the Diesel may or still use less but not as much as you think.

How to Drive the V6 Hilux 1GR-FE for economy - a lot of V6 owners may already know but this is to help new owners
A lot of you already know but this engine was not designed with revs in mind --- in fact the "Redline Cut Defender" (a device to increase the RPM on the 1GR-FE) is a total waste of money and could cause your engine damage. Too much past the redline and this engine will start to develop piston slap - it was designed for low down torque and not high RPM with a longer stroke etc.

So here is the Graph again


You really dont need to see the other side of 3,000RPM and this engine is best driven for economy much under that.

I drive around the city perfectly keeping up with traffic without going over 2,000RPM

2,000RPM is the sweet spot for economy on the 1GR-FE engine and Toyota got the gearing just right with 1,880 RPM at 100klm and 2050 RPM at 110Klm. At this RPM and speed your now already producing a massive 15NM more than the Gen 7 D4D Diesel and you are just crusing

So limit your time above 2,800 RPM for fuel economy. Plus the ECU has been set up overly protected and if you move your accelerator foot fast the ECU notes this and it fuels up and can back off ignition. So for economy you need to watch how quick you stomp on the gas. I know personally how hard this is as it goes like a rocket but slowing your foot down you will use more low down torque and still be quicker than most of the traffic and your enconnomy will improve dramatically even going up to 3,000 RPM rather than hitting 4,000rpm every set of traffic lights for a similar result.

Also learn where your accelerator foot should be at 50,60,80 and 100klm so when the lights go green gently accelerate your foot to this point ---- never through it. You find most people think you need keep moving your foot through the gears then drop off once you hit the speed limit but this will use more RPM and more fuel for no reason.

Imagine you right foot is connected to a tap that controls the size of the hole to your wallet --- the more you open it the bigger the hole and the more money you give to the oil companies.

Use less RPM ---- try it as this engine does not like or need RPM -- its like a Diesel but you have the best of 3 worlds here 1: Low down Torque of a Diesel, High speed overtaking RPM when needed unlike a Diesel, and quite sophistication and running unlike a Diesel. . I'm not saying labour the engine hard when towing I'm suggesting to starting thinking differently about reving this engine hard all the time and you will find a massive improvement in economy.

Fuel E10
E10 is a good fuel but ethanol has substantially less energy in it and you will not get the Klms out of a tank like you would on regular petrol and it will make your economy look bad. But as the E10 is the cheapest at the servo and is substancilly cheaper than Diesel you need to turn your calculations around and work on how many Klms you drive for a dollar of fuel.

Here is a good (but long) video test on this https://youtu.be/CfEcZWwdjoo

Fuel economy in actual costs - 1GR-FE V6 V's the D4D Diesel

Lets assume you don't believe the "in reality" example above and absolutely hammer the V6 here and suggest that every time you fill up the Diesel your getting a "Massive" 150 Klm more out of 70Lt than the V6 - and to make the sums simple lets say you get 500Klm out of the V6 and 650Klm out of the Diesel every 70Lt.

The ABS says we are paying on average 0.15c per Lt more for Diesel than Petrol and the average a vehicle does per year is 25,000Klm

With those figures the V6 will cost you an extra $400 per 25,000Klm in fuel per year. Now this is fuel alone and suggesting that the Diesel returns an extra 150klm per tank every time and does not take into account extra costs of servicing the Diesel.

Lets take this further again - the ABS suggests that average ownership of a vehicle is around 80,000Klm and if this is the case and using the figures above and without taking into account the extra serving costs of the Diesel and using a worst case that the Diesel will achieve an extra 150klm per tank the V6 will cost you $1,280 more in fuel costs over its life --------for me and I mean no disrespect to the D4D but I really do enjoy more Torque and Power and the quite sophistication of the 1GR-FE V6 and it puts any suggestion of poor fuel Econnomy of the V6 into prospective

Should I buy a 1GR-FE Petrol V6 Hilux, Prado etc

Yes 100% yes! and if your in the market for a 1GR-FE V6 Hilux or Prado its a buyers market.

Purchase price
Because of the undeserved fuel economy flak the 1GR-FE gets you will find you can do deals. And if your buying second hand you will find you can buy a younger with less Klms 1GR-FE powered Hilux than a D4D for the same cash --- or you pocket the money for your possible fuel usage differential but at least you know you wont have to fork out massive dollars on Injectors, Injector pumps, stuffed turbo or a glued up stuffed engine that someone is trying to offload --- ok that last line was a little tough but if your budget is tight and your looking at a high Klm D4D you may find a V6 much more affordable and younger and less Klm inside your budget. But it's actually the 1GR-FE that will be the safer bet when it gets higher klm on it.

Example
A new member just had the same experience - for the same price they could buy either a 200k + Diesel or a 150k V6 in their budget. He found most of the Diesels had been rebuilt and the V6 in much better condition. In reality I would feel much more comfortable recommending a V6 with the same Klms as a Diesel due to it being such a reliable engine. But that's not to say you cannot find a well looked after Diesel ---- I really hate Toyota's "Unbreakable" advertising as I think it has caused a lot clowns to absolutely flog their Hiluxs then offload them before or as they start to have trouble.

Reliability is the 1GR-FE Strengths
With out a doubt if someone came to me today and asked what should I buy second hand in a Gen 7 Hilux I would say 1GR-FE V6 anytime and every time.

Can Fuel Economy on the 1GR-FE V6 be improved

Not by "Large Amounts" especially when you are already driving for economy and unloaded; the ECU is as lean as it possibly can be at 14.7 at this point. You can however increase the Torque with a TRD CAI and also correct exhaust which will in turn make improvements to fuel economy overall when loaded and unloaded. However the improvements are small but in engineering terms they are huge as we are not going to a smaller turbo charged engine.

TRD CAI
viewtopic.php?f=81&t=27016

Hilux V6 Exhaust System
viewtopic.php?f=81&t=23730

[jimO]

are you driving about empty? i have half a ton on the back and a couple of ton on a trailer whats the v6 going to chug carting that about

[snakesoup]

looking at your graph the v6 has 60 - 110 kw between 2000 - 3000 revs as you say where you should drive it, have you compared this to the d4d ?
and max torque at almost 4000, rpm how's the economy at 4000? what rpm does the d4d make max torque ? I can tell you the d4d will be considerably more efficient at max torque than the v6

[beatle]

Ive owned both and i like the V6 better!! but the best fuel economy i got was 11.7L/100Ks and that was with standard skinny 17s my diesel got 10.7 last week and i wasn't trying to get good economy !

[Phil675]

I have a 2010 V6, HAVE JUST COMPLETED IT'S 200,000km service and it runs fantastic on Petrol or LPG. I am in the process of checking my fuel economy and will come back here is about a week or so with my results.

Phil

[taresk]

Actually this makes a lot of sense, coming from the rev-happy 3VZ-FE into this engine I was driving it all wrong at the start, back when I was running 32's but was still getting around 10-11l/100km. I had to tow my uncle's 70 series on a trailer to Tempe from Lithgow, and because it was a dodgy hire trailer, I took it easy keeping the revs down, it towed effortlessly, and gave me almost exactly the same fuel figures I was getting when revving about unladen.

After I learned my lesson, I could easily get as low as 8l/100km on a highway stretch, it all went away when I stuck 33's on, but if I ever get around to fitting the diff gears I bought, it should come good again, putting the revs back in the sweet spot.

[tazmancrash]

I love my 06 SR5 double cab and wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
My trip computer says I get 12.5 L/100 km. And that's towing a small loaded trailer every weekend and a full tray of tools every day. I'm a builder.
Just had my 150 km service and it was $480.00 at Toyota. Love not having a timing belt.

[Gulfstream8]

looking at your graph the v6 has 60 - 110 kw between 2000 - 3000 revs as you say where you should drive it, have you compared this to the d4d ?
and max torque at almost 4000, rpm how's the economy at 4000? what rpm does the d4d make max torque ? I can tell you the d4d will be considerably more efficient at max torque than the v6

Hello snakesoup - sorry mate I did not mean to offend as the article was written to help V6 owners understand a little more about what RPM they should be driving the V6 to obtain better fuel economy, and due to the design of the V6 its better to think like its a Diesel and not rev its head off.

The Facts are correct and they are not meant to be offensive but simply show V6 owners the desirable RPM range

The V6 starts producing 340Nw just off idle and keeps climbing all the way to 376Nw at 3,800 RPM
The Diesel starts producing 343Nw from 1,400 and is flat right through to 3,400 RPM

At only 2,000 RPM the V6 is already producing 15Nw more than the Diesel

The Diesel makes its 126Kw at 3,600 RPM and at this RPM the V6 is already making almost 150Kw and still climbing and its only 200RPM away from hitting 376Nw --- 33Nw more than the Diesel.

So a V6 owner armed with the information above will now have a better understanding on how to get better economy. They should be driving the V6 like a Diesel - using less RPM. But it is nice to have that power in reserve when you need it.

Cheers

[snakesoup]

hi mate, sorry if I came across like that, no offense taken here
and it's a very informative post, please tell me this, from full how many klm are you getting when your fuel light comes on ?

[snakesoup]

Actually this makes a lot of sense, coming from the rev-happy 3VZ-FE into this engine I was driving it all wrong at the start, back when I was running 32's but was still getting around 10-11l/100km. I had to tow my uncle's 70 series on a trailer to Tempe from Lithgow, and because it was a dodgy hire trailer, I took it easy keeping the revs down, it towed effortlessly, and gave me almost exactly the same fuel figures I was getting when revving about unladen.

After I learned my lesson, I could easily get as low as 8l/100km on a highway stretch, it all went away when I stuck 33's on, but if I ever get around to fitting the diff gears I bought, it should come good again, putting the revs back in the sweet spot.

8l per hundred in a v6 hilux? mate we didn't come down in the last shower

[ktm300]

I have a 2013 dual cab v6 hilux alloy tray manual 90 thousand klms 2wd that's right 2 wd. I would be creating a miracle if I could get over 500 per tank no matter what I do . Even cruising at 100 I can't get any better than 475 klms if Iam lucky I also have a scan gauge so I know what it's using people that run 33-s must be getting 350 per tank as my tyres are tiny and I have no bull bar nothing . So I must just be unlucky I guess. Maybe that's why I have it for sale . Great car and power but they certainly drink fuel . Had 4 hilux diesels this is my first petrol model .

[taresk]

8l per hundred in a v6 hilux? mate we didn't come down in the last shower

It's true, but as I said that's pure highway, not combined, running A/T tyres (at the time all of my driving was highway miles). At 110km/h on 32's the engine was only doing 1600rpm, it's not hard to get great figures.

Even now on 33's with factory gearing, and a bunch of accessories taking my weight to 2.2t, the worst I get is 13.5l/100km combined cycle.

I have a 2013 dual cab v6 hilux alloy tray manual 90 thousand klms 2wd that's right 2 wd. I would be creating a miracle if I could get over 500 per tank no matter what I do . Even cruising at 100 I can't get any better than 475 klms if Iam lucky I also have a scan gauge so I know what it's using people that run 33-s must be getting 350 per tank as my tyres are tiny and I have no bull bar nothing . So I must just be unlucky I guess. Maybe that's why I have it for sale . Great car and power but they certainly drink fuel . Had 4 hilux diesels this is my first petrol model .

Maybe it's the transmission that makes the difference, anytime I've heard good fuel figures from a V6, it's been an auto, I'm not sure how different the ratios are, but that seem to be the only difference.

I should also add, I was always running 98 octane fuel.

[ktm300]

At 110 klms my 2wd is sitting at 2500 Rpm

[flip9]

I just got back from a trip to QLD with the v6. I did a total of 2146 km's according to google maps. I paid about $310 in petrol all up (95/98 RON).

Had about 400kg of gear and a passenger. I've got roof racks, roof pod and a side awning which makes it as aerodynamic as a potato (noisy).

Not sure if thats good or not.

[beatle]

You can't run 91 or E10 in these engines they run like shit!!

[LocalFart]

When you're looking to buy shouldn't it be as simple as,
Do I tow often or load the tray often? = Diesel
Do I use it as my daily and rarely load it? = Petrol

[Gulfstream8]

When you're looking to buy shouldn't it be as simple as,
Do I tow often or load the tray often? = Diesel
Do I use it as my daily and rarely load it? = Petrol

Hello "LocalFart"

I guess traditionally that would have been the case (more usable torque) but the 1GR-FE V6 is not a "Traditional High Reving V6". It has characteristics of a Diesel in fact the 1GR-FE is superior to the D4D in Torque and HP right through out its entire rev range including 340Nw of Torque just off idle and it continues to rise from there - where as the D4D is 343Nw from 1,400 to 3,600rpm. I can assure you the V6 tows very very well.

I tow a 1,800Kg ski boat and my truck is used as a work vehicle and the "In-Reality" scenario above with my mates in the D4D are both loaded and unloaded.

Perfect towing example
Gillies Range in FNQ - it's very steep and has heaps of bends and when you get to the top its up and down a lot. My mate had exactly the same FlightCraft Ski boat and both had 350 LT1 Chevs and we both fill up at the same servo and fill up at the same servo on the way home after a round trip. The only difference in vehicles is I have a cab chassis steel tray V6 and he has a dual cab D4D or did he has a Ranger now). Now I'm in front setting the pace and I'm just crushing and the V6 has no problem doing the speed limit towing 1,800kg of boat. My mate on the other hand is into it and the Turbo is boosting hard all the way to keep up ---- nothing stuiped but we just want to get to the Dam and get that glassy water and camping spot first.

The round trip resulted in the V6 using less fuel and that is a fact because I was just cruising and he was having to drive hard to keep up. Now admitted in this scenario all I did was just cruise and do enough to keep in front and slow down when he dropped off - him on the other hand tried all of the overtaking lanes up the range to pass but his D4D had nothing left so he was driving it hard.

But as stated above a D4D driven for fuel economy will always be better on fuel against the V6, the "But in reality" is that the difference is not that much when the V6 is not being flogged thats all.

Cheers

[HK1837]

You can't run 91 or E10 in these engines they run like shit!!

Not true. Mine runs fine on E10, similar to 95. I have the dyno curves to prove it!

[taresk]

You can't run 91 or E10 in these engines they run like shit!!

Mine has no problem with them either, I prefer to run 98, but I've had to go with what was available a few times, and there's no seat-of-the-pants difference, just a slightly higher fuel use.

Might be different with the dual VVTi version in the FJ, Prado Rav & Kluger, but I don't really know.

[Qwerty]

Fantastic information thanks Gulfstream.

i spend most of my time below about 2800rpm, except when giving it some berries to overtake etc.

I favoured the V6 over the D4D (several mates have them) because I liked the extra torque (matched to 5spd A750 it knows how to use it). Extra killerwasps are nice also.

but my main decision was around cost, and durability ... the 1GRFE from all the thinking / research I did on it, was one of toyota's most bulletproof motors and have had several mechanically minded mates confirm that.

In terms of fuel, definitely more thirsty ... but in the grand scheme of things that's not the only thing I consider (else i'd be driving a prius or EV). With that being said, on a lot of the sandy beach trips I do with mates wiht d4d ... we're actually pretty close in fuel usage. I don't know why or what's going on, but i know they are reaming theirs a fair bit more than I am ... whereas I tend to just get through the soft bits and then simmer the throttle down nicely.

If i was doing purely towing work on high way speeds all around the country, i'd probably go for the diesel (mind you it'd probably not be a hilux diesel, as i really am eyeballing a 70 or 200 ... just can't decide if i want ultra durability or ultra comfort!) , but the moment there's sandy beach work involved which is predominate over here, I always smile more driving the V6.

As to the whole 'real men drive diesels' brigade ... I never really care what others think of me, and don't need a fuel type to feel well placed in this world. "Soot gets the moot" and other catchcrys are funny n all ... but if i wanted to win a measuring contest I'd just flop it out with a wink and a grin, and besides, the better half is bloody easy on the eye so I'm not stressed about being appealing to the fairer sex. Ironically, she drives the diesel in our household (twin turbo and redlines to 5500rpm .. the thing acts like a petrol, go figure)

I think petrol is going to be making a big return in coming years. Few reasons, first is emissions controls ... advent of DPF's and urea treatments has made diesel engines a whole lot more problematic and prone to injury. Second is the never ending trend of smaller engine blocks, but higher torque by way of more highly strung diesel engines. ... the longevity of modern highly strung diesels is nothing at all like the reputation diesels have (older, larger, lazy diesels that would live to a million km).
The biggest issue with diesel is that particulate is carcinogenic ... and governments world wide are getting very very strict, which will reduce the viability of diesel engines ... it's one reason the yanks have favoured more strict targets on their diesels (and many diesels from europe and australia simply can't be sold in the US) ... and yet they are (or were) less up-tight about CO2.

I often say though I'd love to rip the donk out of the wifes city car and dump it into a 4wd, 430nm & 130kw in a 2.2litre engine, 5500rpm redline, behaves like a petrol, and uses about 6l/100 (4.5l/100 on a highway drive!) ... though, like all high strung diesels, i wonder how long it will last.