engine rattle

engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Sat, 09 Dec 2017 6:03 +0000

Hi all,I am a newby to the site. I am experienced in mechanics ,however this one has me guessing. :-I have found only one reference to my problem with no response attached.
My 2005 (KUN) hilux (235,000 kms) runs reasonably well but..... without warning or incident a severely loud rattle started from the engine. It occurs only when my ute is under load, that is, towing a (1 tonne trailer) and or when driving uphill. I can be motoring 80-100 kms and then it starts instantly. It sound like a valve (at the top of the motor) clattering open and shut at high speed and then the motor tries to race. I have to slow down without changing gears and force the the engine down in speed using the gearbox to slow the engine otherwise it "takes off".Once slow ,it will gradually disappear ,then when under load it comes back.I am not able to investigate "it" when it occurs as I would have to let the engine race to destruction with my head under the bonnet.it is not big ends or bearings noise as it is not constant.When the rattle starts there is a slight drop in engine performance and when it stops the engine runs fine.I should mention the EGR valve was dismantled and cleared of carbon a while back I can't really see any correlation but others may know better. Any valuable contributions would be welcome.
Best Christmas wishes to readers.
Rgds Monkeymagic
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Re: engine rattle

Postby jimO on Sun, 10 Dec 2017 1:53 +0000

injectors do a search on here there will be a huge number of posts
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Re: engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Sun, 10 Dec 2017 2:39 +0000

There was a typo in my previous post and to clarify ,I own a 2008 hilux.I have progressed with the diagnosis and now found that draining the oil I have 15 litres of watery oil instead of 6.9 litres of 20W 40. This is as a result of a leak or several leaks in the seals in the injector pipe unions and injector base seals. These have been "blowing " fuel and gases into the rocker cover area and draining into the sump. I am aware that this causes the oil to form "black mass" that will eventually block the oil pick-up filter grill preventing lubrication of the cylinders and finally engine sieze. Fortunately ,inspecting this via the sump drain plug, I seem to have beaten the curse.Like so many others I get the "diatribe" from the dealers about all the things that now need replacing and asociated costs however some resourcing on this site, has saved me thousands. My first clue was a tiny drop of oil or two forced out through the fuel injector pipe rocker seal (behind the intercooler).This suggested an overpressure in the rockercover.
I hope some of this helps others.
Rgds
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Re: engine rattle

Postby Gipsy on Sun, 10 Dec 2017 3:44 +0000

Watery oil sounds more like a coolant leak! Has the reservoir been stable?
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
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Re: engine rattle

Postby TOYZX on Sun, 10 Dec 2017 7:33 +0000

X2! Was it watery or milky??

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Re: engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Sun, 10 Dec 2017 9:49 +0000

Bad use of terms..... the oil was runny (very low viscosity) and the reservoir has only needed about a litre of coolant all year.if it was a cracked head or leaky head gasket I should see other symptoms IE: oily exhaust . occasional backfire ,overheating etc. None of these are evident............yet.The only two fluids present in the engine block/head besides oil are coolant and fuel and as hilux use a common rail and "leakage" pipe for return fuel I am thinking I have a slow leak as I replaced the oil and filter 14th Nov. and the oil then and the oil I took out now are not "milky or frothy" only diluted without any visible separation ,that's why I think it's fuel. I can't smell the diesel over the oil odour but it has blended very well. I am not kidding when I say I drained 15 litres from a sump that should have only 6.9 litres. I welcome your thoughts....... it causes me to consider other options.
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Re: engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Sun, 10 Dec 2017 10:04 +0000

forgot to mention from a previous post.... when the hilux is under "load" towing or tough hill climb a major clatter starts and the engine just " takes off" and wants to race even when I try to brake. Still guessing on this one !!???
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Re: engine rattle

Postby TOYZX on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 3:58 +0000

A diesel engine will run on it's own oil if its thin enough. Maybe when its under that much load it is getting hot enough to do just that! And if it really had 15lts in there the crankcase pressure would have been nice and high. There could even be enough fuel vapour in the crankcase gasses which are all fed back into the intake, it could even run on that. A diesel engine will race like a two stroke running out of fuel when in the rite conditions.

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Re: engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 6:12 +0000

Hmmm , I think you are onto something there with the "combustable oil".I am no chemical engineer ,however I still could not convince myself it was diesel leaking, so I took two small pieces of hardiflex (non combustable) dipped one in clean oil and the other in my sump oil and presto with a little flame could get my sump oil to burn but not the new oil (control). Your comment on the gases is valuable too. I understand with enough compression a diesel can run on cooking oil as fuel. The old farmers used to do it before manufactures refined the diesel process.
Thanks for you feedback
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Re: engine rattle

Postby DeadlyBeast on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 6:50 +0000

G'Day MM and welcome to the forum

There are many threads with a lot of information that will confirm your diagnostic. A bit of reading:
http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=13749&hilit=smoke
http://www.newhilux.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=23972

Hopefully you have caught this before a piston has cracked or holed.
I will see if I can find the guide for injector installation if his is something you want to do your self

This forum contains an almost endless array of knowledge about the Toyota Hilux and over the years a lot of topics, questions and issues have been addressed. In order to get the most out of the forum and in an attempt to try and keep the information in an organised (well semi :lol: ) manner, please utilise the search function at the top of the page and ask your questions or contribute to existing threads as much as possible.

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Re: engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 8:41 +0000

Thanks for your post, I am a country boy and am now off the the "big smoke" (pardon the pun) to see what a couple of the injector specialists say. Will post their comments later today when I get back .
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Re: engine rattle

Postby TOYZX on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 2:22 +0000

I once seen an old tractor engine on a stand run for a whole day on its own oil cos someone had poured diesel into the motor. Its just sat there running flat out till it ran out of oil cos there was no way to shut it off!

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Re: engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:47 +0000

Well ......11:40pm and just finished putting in new injector seals and associated parts. Glad to say a little priming and it started 1st time. runs smoothly and let it idle for about 20 minutes checking for leaks while I cleaned up. All good so far. I will take it out for a solid run tomorrow and report again.The injector specialist confirmed your comments (Toyzx) saying that....... thin oil ......hot motor.....and it will burn oil and start to race. much like pre-ignition in the old asperated (carbies) used to do. As you say ....no way to stop it. I just had to force a "slowing" by using 4th gear at about 50-60 kms to facilitate engine cool-down.
Thanks again for your feedback.
I be back tomorrow.
MM
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Re: engine rattle

Postby DeadlyBeast on Tue, 12 Dec 2017 7:55 +0000

Out of interest - what number injector/ injectors were leaking?
Did your injector seats and associated parts include new injectors?
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Re: engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Tue, 12 Dec 2017 6:43 +0000

SUCCESS.......The story so far....questions first.... My injectors are numbered Denso 23670 - 30280's . I didn't change the Injectors as the injectors work it was the fuel leak into the sump that was the issue.
I replaced the injector seals and O rings ,the leakage pipe washers the banjo pipe seal and the gasket and seals to the rocker cover. I have replenished with 7 litres of 20w 40 oil and made a note of level on the dipstick and will watch (intently) over the next few days/week. I did a full work-out today .....300 kms uphill with trailer and 100km/hr .Multiple starts throughout the day ..starting first time ,every time. The acceleration is better and idling smoother. These things are to be expected however it is pleasing when...."a plan comes together".
One thing I didn't mention in my original post was , as the symptoms (fault) progressed ,I found it harder to start the hilux ,especially when it was warm. It felt like Hydraulic lock (cylinders full of fluid) had occurred as the battery struggled to turn the motor over.This also has disappeared.
I have carefully set aside the components that I took out to see if a particular injector of seal was any worse than the others ,but I haven't got to that yet.
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Re: engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Tue, 12 Dec 2017 6:46 +0000

P.S ......Not a sniff of smoke of any kind either at start up or running. .....feeling goooood.
MM
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Re: engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Tue, 12 Dec 2017 6:50 +0000

I forgot to ask. I did a "code" check amongst other things. I have an OBDII tester and nothing came up. I also shorted pins 4 and 13 on the OBD port and watched the engine warnig light flicker to indicate codes (this process is in the book) and still nothing . Does anyone know why???? I thought one of the sensors would've picked up a problem?
Rgds MM
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Re: engine rattle

Postby TOYZX on Tue, 12 Dec 2017 9:29 +0000

Most the systems for fault code are electrical faults so the computer was probably none the wiser. A good result overall by the sounds of it! Glad ya got to the bottom of it.

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Re: engine rattle

Postby Monkeymagic on Tue, 12 Dec 2017 10:02 +0000

Thanks for the feedback. I chose to detail it all so others can follow my mistakes and avoid them.hope it saves someone some grief.Good luck and Merry Christmas to one and all.
MM
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Re: engine rattle

Postby DeadlyBeast on Wed, 13 Dec 2017 9:12 +0000

Thanks for posting MM
Was wondering which number injector seat let go - 1,2,3 or 4
How did the injector port seat look, was it carboned up or were all 4 ports clean as a whistle?
Usually when a seat leaks it can take over an hour to get that port spotless
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