Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

[swhilux]

Definatly no hissing. Just had another listen and no pulsing once I moved the car outside just a fair bit of blowby and it does tend to spit a bit of oil out. Normal I suppose

I had a listen with the stethoscope again the the knock is definatly most prevalent from the rear injector no. 4. The other injector lines have a bit if a knock but number 4 is atrocious can be heard just resting something metal on the line. So what would be my first step. Arrange an injector compensation check with local toyota dealer?

[boxhead55]

Yep they can do a cylinder cut and Electeicial compression test.
Along with cold and hot feed back values

[swhilux]

By the way Boxhead, Roo and BDG. You guys are a wealth of infomation on these engines and it is much appreciated!

[^Nicko]

Okay took the ute to toyota today.

The result was the injectors are in spec

1 - 1.0 mm3/s
2- -0.8 mm3/s
3- -0.8 mm3/s
4- 0.1mm3/s

*no leaks in the cooling system*.


So i asked if they could just replace the seat seals... they said that MY feedback values are really good and the seat seals dont need to be replaced. OkaY

basically they were telling me to pick it up and that they cant find anything wrong.

Ive told them to keep it overnight and start it nose down tomorrow morning so they can see the smoke and knock.

the service advisor then said if they still cant find anything then they would want to start to look at valve stem seals which he said is $$$. ( Is that the next thing they should look at ) BOXHEAD ?

[BDG]

Seriously, thats a bit of a joke honestly. I'd be very surprised if its not the seals (seats / sheets) that we've spoken of.

Generally speaking, leaking seats are not that easily identifiable via scan tool anyway (well I've not been smart enough to see it). In your case Nico, I'd see this as a case of preventative maintenance, get the valve clearances looked at, have the seals changed and clean the inlet (sorry if you've posted all this before) and just have it done.

Not that I would see engine issues commonly, but I haven't heard of anyone doing valve stem seals as yet...

[^Nicko]

Thanks mate, and mate your telling me its a joke.

i kept saying to the service guys how the seats are meant to be replaced every 40,000. but he had no idea of this.. or if they should ever be changed for that matter...

and cleaned the inlet and egr recently and installed a provent after so that should be sweet.

so your saying tell them to

1. change the injector seat seals
2. valve clearances looked at ( is that the same as adjusting tappets... )

*and not let them touch valve stem seals? *

[boxhead55]

Seriously, thats a bit of a joke honestly. I'd be very surprised if its not the seals (seats / sheets) that we've spoken of.

Generally speaking, leaking seats are not that easily identifiable via scan tool anyway (well I've not been smart enough to see it). In your case Nico, I'd see this as a case of preventative maintenance, get the valve clearances looked at, have the seals changed and clean the inlet (sorry if you've posted all this before) and just have it done.

Not that I would see engine issues commonly, but I haven't heard of anyone doing valve stem seals as yet...

Seriously plus1

[BDG]

Im going to sound like Roo for the next 3 minutes about Toyota, + their (sometimes) bullshit service technicians.

We have a customer who was in melbourne, had the cold knock that never fully disappeared buy a set of injectors. Awesome bloke, done a few before, anyway, fitted himself and the problem was still present. Nothing on the scan tool id'ed the problem, but it still there + i drove the car and thought it sounded like injectors.
Anyway, not wanting to stuff around, i gave him a brand new set to replace ours as we thought they were faulty, and guess what no change.

SO I told this bloke to take it back to the Toyota dealer who had been coding (and shit talking the hell out of 'reman' injectors) to have the block assessed. Anyway, they assured him it was injectors, so i phoned the Toyota dealer myself and made them a deal. They put injectors in and it fixes it, i'll pay. If it doesn't, its your problem, because im fairly confident its in the block. Anyway, needless to say, it wasn't injectors.

Anyway, I hadn't heard boo from either Toyota or the customer for nearly 7 weeks, turns out my customer has never had his car back, and even though its still knocking its arse off, everything is 'within tolerance' and to take it. He won't take it, and anyway, since then they've somewhat accepted there is a problem and have blamed tappets, Algea, filters... Blah blah blah. So far the bill is over $5k and there is no resolution in site, just these dickheads billing this bloke in their guessing competition... Its f$@#&% wrong.

Had another just before christmas - not even our injectors, old mate just wanted some help after Toyota had bent him over. Took the car to his local Toyota bloke, got them to supply and fit injectors. Got it back, all was sweet for about 15k, and then the car took off (accelerated with no accelerator input!) knocked its backside off and blew shit loads of smoke. owner feared the worse and the story from Toyota was that "the old injectors must have damaged the pistons and these new injectors basically finished them off. Sorry mate, 5 figure invoice to fix.

Those who know, if you leave the leak off rail loose accidently, it will fill the engine oil up with diesel, and basically overfill it until there is about a 50/50 ratio of fuel and oil spilling into the engine inlet via the breather. At this point, the car now has a additional fuel source with no timing control (which gives the knocking) and blows massive amounts of smoke. Anyway, Toyota was adamant that it was cracked pistons, and took the head off and like a magic trick, they were fine.

re-fitted the head and there was no problem (after an oil change and Cat replacement)...

Moral of the story, if you guys can find a trusted mechanic (whether that be at Toyota or not) stick to them like shit to a blanket - they are increasingly hard to find. And the problem with the DUMB ones, is that they're happy to give you an invoice that can potential financially ruin you for their incompetence / lack of knowledge and / or care.

*** Late night rant over***

[boxhead55]

A good read tho

And well said!

[swhilux]

Anyone know a good mechanic in bunbury wa. Toyota are rip off merchants

[Talktheroo]

A good read tho

And well said!

You know BH, I love you mate, but not in a gay (happy) way.
I am with you Matt, as you would expect.
What makes me angry, you are left fixing up their crap work.
I have seen seven cases now, where the wrong gasket has been used on the back of the leakage pipe. I mean, how can you get that wrong, as it's the same gasket all the way through on the leakage pipe, but no, they simple don't care.
That is, people that do this type of thing. It's just really wrong, and that's just being very nice about it.
Like, how do you use the wrong gasket there any way. I just don't get it.
Matt, they are using the bigger gasket that's for the pipe at the back on the outside of the cylinder head, there.
The return pipe that runs along the intake manifold.
Like I said, I just don't get these guys. That's simply not the way to behave. Brings the good name of Toyota, in general, into disrepute. As it does the industry. There needs to be a mass sacking of these people, that's just what I think.
It's a definite wake up call, the whole thing with Toyota Australia and most of the dealerships.
It's easy, get rid of all the people that don't give a brass monkey, easy, easy, easy.
There are plenty of people that will fill these positions that do care. Most of the dealerships, have to get rid of those ridiculous time management structures, as well. Definitely part of the problem, as well as the incompetence.
Look, we are not trying to take business away from you here. Lord knows, I have enough business for myself, and I know the Bailey's Group do have, as well. It's not about that, it's about, we are sick to death of fixing up your mistakes and bad workmanship.
And while we are at it, if a customer asked you what you think about something, an issue, and you don't know, tell them that, because that is the truth. You can't know everything, even about your own products.
I am sick to death of straightening out all the porgies, and just stop it. It's bad behaviour.
The Daddy Roo, Rufus.

[^Nicko]

Thanks for all the help and info here guys.

I just picked my ute up from Toyota after id had enough bullshit and no idea from their part.

just to re cap i have the smoke nose downhill issue, been at toyota twice now.

they have told me The injectors are in spec. they kept it over night and the service advisor was telling me how they jacked the back of the car up on the hoist and then started it this morning and there wasnt much smoke. so he starts telling me " mate id just leave it, dont waist your money theres not much smoke".

Ive said well there is, it covers my whole street when it happens, you must not have done it right.

at this point ive said ill just come in and pick it up. Next thing the advisor is asking me what i think would be fair to pay for the work that was done.

this is when i lost it.....

I basically told him how useless he was, the dealership and Toyota. That ill be speaking to customer service.

when i went in to pick it up the service advisor i was dealing with walked straight out the office and i asked the girl where hes going and she shook her said and said lunch. So another advisor gave my keys back and even appologised for the other guys behaviour ( i dont know how he knew) and said he was really sorry they couldnt fix it. he Said there had been no master tech in the dealer this whole time, hell be back next week do i want to bring it back then. then quietly hes said " listen mate if youve found another place to take it do that", because basically they mechanics there were a joke.

Now it is at a Diesel Specialist and fingers crossed it all goes well from here!

How much should a seat seal replacement and valve check be ?

[BDG]

for the basics we charge around the $350 mark including the filters. If its to include an intake cleanout and whatever else, add about another $300 for labor and Misc...

To be honest Nicko, i think you've made a wise decision. How could they possibly fix (or complete preventative maintenance) what they do not know. It amazes me how many people DONT read a service manual...

Anyway mate, here's to better luck!

[BDG]

Actually forget reading the manual, taking the 10 seconds to Google the answer. Seriously what a joke!

[^Nicko]

$350 to do what ? and what filters are you talking about

where are you mate? sounds like it should be with you

[^Nicko]

On another note,

i just read back through this, and now with my own experience.

Surely A Currant Affair or something would be interested in this ? Im sure guys like Roo have tried to talk to Toyota already?

Its just not good enough coming from an established company like Toyota. and also like the roo has said gives them a bad name. I love my Hilux, But my opinion of hilux's and more so Toyota as a company has now been tarnished.

Nick

[BDG]

Hey nick,

$350 the price to remove and refit injectors with the seals and washers and fuel filters. However as I stated, most of the time, inlets need work as well and what not...

Location wise, we're in wollongong and are pretty much the only company in aus who remanufacture these injectors. We'd average something like 50engine sets a week, so we know 1kd's fairly well lol!

Anyway, happy to help if you would like and understand if you don't.

Matt

[Talktheroo]

Around the $800.00 mark, Nick.
If you are doing the 80,000km service, a bit more. Engine oil, other parts and the driveline service, then all the other checks. All this stuff is labour intensive.
I usually include the EGR cleaning service as part of it.
The Roo.

[^Nicko]

Hey Matt,

if id know about you earlier i would have brought it down to you. Its already at a diesel place up here in sydney.

They Rang me today and told me what they were doing and how much.

The injectors are all okay just the seals need replacing and i said to check valve clearences as well.

-bench test injectors $65 each $260 - i showed them the feedback values from toyota but i guess they checked them out of the vehicle. Thankfully all injectors are good

-replace high pressure lines ( apparently you "have" to do this, toyota did say the same) i mean ive pulled them off before when i cleaned my inlet and put them back. $350 ish for the parts

seals, o rings, gasket i think was $70 ish

5 hours labour @ $110 i think

Around $1230 sound right?

[Talktheroo]

Injector pipes x 4 are an extra $300.00 trade.
If I wasn't doing anything to the EGR system, $1,030.00.
That includes the intercooler being serviced and a report on the condition of the EGR system.
Valve clearance check.
All new parts.
4 x Injector pipes.
4 x Injector seats (sheets).
4 x Injector seals.
5 x leakage pipe gaskets.
1 x cylinder head cover gasket.
4 x injector pipe holder seals.
4 x injector clamp bolt washers.
1 x gasket for intake air on intercooler.
All diagnostic work including a leakage test.
Initialization.
You can only use the injector pipes twice, and you have done this. Good call to replace the injector pipes.
Note, you don't have to take out the injectors to check them. The feedback values and the total injector volume. You do this with a diagnostic tool with the vehicle going from cold start up.
The Roo.