Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

[apSlain]

Hey all,

I've read through this entire thread plus a few others on the issue and I think I've got my head around it. I recently purchased an '06 D4D and am looking into getting all this checked out by a trusted mechanic sometime after Easter. I just wanted to confirm whether this list of things to check is comprehensive enough as I'd rather get everything checked in one go.

I don't know if they check for this but the NRMA gave their all clear on the vehicle, and it's driven like a dream thus far without any smoke or rattling. My fuel consumption is looking great too - 302km and sitting at a touch under 3/4s - so I think I'm safe for now though I'd rather get the preventative measures done straight up before diving into the camping/off-road modifications. The vehicle's done 94.5k over 9 years.

Things that are priority:

• Valve Clearance test/check.
• Injectors, Injector Seats, and Injector Seals check.
  At minimum, replace the seats and seals.
  If replacing the injectors, recode. This depends on whether the car is post- or pre- Aug '06 (mine is 1 Aug '06).
  Clean the injector port prior to replacing the injectors.
  Continue replacing the seals every 45k kilometres (as done in New Zealand).
• Clean out the EGR, Intake Manifold, MAF Sensor, MAP Filter, Inlet Manifold, Sump Pump Screen, and Pickup Oil Filter.

Things to consider/remember:

• Replace the Factory Fuel Filter.
• Replace the Suction Control Valve.
• Replace the Injector Pipes and Fuel Line.
• Clean fuel pickup in fuel tank.
• Change oil every 5k kilometres.
• Install an oil catch can e.g. Provent 200.

That's what I've got so far from reading this thread, a few others, and a few blogs from websites such as Baileys Diesel Group. From my research, most of it is pretty simple albeit time consuming except for the sump pump screen which requires engine removal. Is there anything that I'm forgetting or that is highly recommended to be done? I'd like my wallet to be hit hard once rather than hit multiple times.

[Gipsy]

Engine oil pickup would prob not have been checked by NRMA ... need to drop the oil... you can see the pickup through the drain hole with a torch. It should be shiny and clean. Just keep up the 5k oil changes and use a good oil... I use penrite. No need to remove engine... they can be cleaned in the truck.

Just add a fuel pre-filter (suggest Donaldson) http://www.donaldsonfilters.com.au/inde ... ucts/kits/


also you may be in for a recall at Toyota expense for the seals. If you have new seals they should be the 'new' type so problem solved.

cheers, G

[apSlain]

Engine oil pickup would prob not have been checked by NRMA ... need to drop the oil... you can see the pickup through the drain hole with a torch. It should be shiny and clean. Just keep up the 5k oil changes and use a good oil... I use penrite.

also you may be in for a recall at Toyota expense for the seals.

cheers, G

Thanks Gipsy; I doubt many of these issues with the injectors were checked out by the NRMA but I don't mind the extra work It is disappointing that this is such a widespread issue though.

I'll need to call Toyota to check whether my vehicle's VIN is within the range. Is it worth going through them for the seals? I was intending to replace all injector-related components with Baileys gear. That would be at my expense (labour and parts) but apparently Baileys are still superior. Though, with Toyota you get new hold-down forks and dome washers.

[Gipsy]

Check my previous edit.

Looks like you've got it covered... just a belts and braces idea... drop the engine oil over easter and check the sump pickup... such a quick and simple check. The new oil would give you some relief to know it is new.
cheers G

[bloke&tackle]

[*]Change oil every 5k kilometres.
[

I'd agree with most of the conclusions you've come to, good research.
The 5k oil change not so much. The schedule is every 10k under normal driving conditions, whatever that means.
A lot of people say it's cheap insurance to change it every 5k, but it isn't really cheap, even doing it yourself and it's a pain in the bum to do. If Toyota with all their millions spent on R & D and their liaising with the oil companies, come to the conclusion that the engine oil is fine for 10k then that's good enough for me.
I change mine every 7,500k just to take the 'under normal conditions" factor out of it and come to a round figure every second service at 15k.

I'm a diesel mechanic, I have acces to lab oil sampling via the mining industry, and have had my oil tested at 10k, it was fine.

Also remember that the colour of the oil, i.e. how black it is means absolutely nothing.

[apSlain]

Ahh, that's a new one - thanks Gipsy, I'll make a note to check out some pre-fuel filters

Hmm, changing at 7,500km seems like a good idea especially with it rounding out with the services. I might take that advice, thanks bloke&tackle. The vehicle will generally see easy highway driving with a camping/off-road trip on the weekend every month or two so a change every 7,500km is probably good insurance.

[kimbah]

ok, even though this thread is slightly old, im going to add a few things here...now I have no mechanical nouse whatsoever, so bear with me.

We have an 06 hilux, which unfortunately, is outside the CSE VIN range...but has the injector issue and Toyota has quoted us nearly $4k to fix this....even though it has been serviced at Toyota throughout its lifetime (except for the last two, which were 130k and 140k services). Our 07 prado, started to display the same symptoms but was luckily the subject of the recall and has had the injectors replaced and seems to be running without issue, all smoke etc on cold start have gone.

now if the hilux has been getting serviced at Toyota, what is this valve clearance thing where the injectors should have been removed and therefore seats replaced? in the warranty and service manual, it says "check valve clearances (diesel model)" at 120k...which was our alst service at Toyota and done only 13000km ago....so is this something they should have already replaced? it was at this service they told us it needed doing and quoted us the $4k to fix it

[kimbah]

ok, even though this thread is slightly old, im going to add a few things here...now I have no mechanical nouse whatsoever, so bear with me.

We have an 06 hilux, which unfortunately, is outside the CSE VIN range...but has the injector issue and Toyota has quoted us nearly $4k to fix this....even though it has been serviced at Toyota throughout its lifetime (except for the last two, which were 130k and 140k services). Our 07 prado, started to display the same symptoms but was luckily the subject of the recall and has had the injectors replaced and seems to be running without issue, all smoke etc on cold start have gone.

now if the hilux has been getting serviced at Toyota, what is this valve clearance thing where the injectors should have been removed and therefore seats replaced? in the warranty and service manual, it says "check valve clearances (diesel model)" at 120k...which was our alst service at Toyota and done only 13000km ago....so is this something they should have already replaced? it was at this service they told us it needed doing and quoted us the $4k to fix it

actually I believe the prado had the seats replaced and the injectors cleaned...though they don't give you the paperwork and I am only working from memory

[Pete'90]

Hi guys, this one is for the experts and people with first hand experience in my scenario, I have a 2010 my11 d4d hilux august build with 36700 km on it, the servicing has always being done at the 6monthly intervals and no more than 4-6000 km between them. I have owned it since new. And I did check that it had being serviced before paying for it.

Today I took it in for its 80000km/4year service not at toyota though. It was last running on Sunday, so I thought I would stand behind it and get the mrs to start it, upon start up it blew a small puff of white/white-ish smoke and then nothing out of the ordinary. Is this a sign of a blow-by/blocked oil screen beginning? And was parked on level ground. I did ask him to check the oil screen and give me a print out of the feed back values cold and hot. I did also ask him to check the valve clearances as they are due, but he assures me it doesn't need to be done, I beg to differ.

To me it has began to sound a little more rattly on start up compared to before but I don't know if it's me looking too far into it from all the reading on here.

Roo, boxy, bdg any ideas/info

[Talktheroo]

How are you, Pete.
Been very busy, lately.
You need to drop your engine oil and check your sump screen.
Two methods of doing this.
Go and buy a Bullant Inspection camera from Auto Barn. I think they are still about $99.00.
Or, you can just use a good torch. One you can adjust the lens with.
You will see the stainless steel mess of the sump screen through the sump hole. Good idea to drain your engine oil over night, less messy, that way.
Report back if you can.
A lot of people in the industry believe that the new designed injector seats don't get blow by.
This is true for most vehicles, but I have seen one Prado 150 with the beginnings of blow by at 120,000kms.
I do service a lot of vehicles with the new Toyota coated injector seats, which your vehicle has fitted, and I have only seen one vehicle with the condition, Blow By. It's normally the vehicles with the old uncoated copper seats that suffer from this condition. Pre 2008 in the Hilux models, normally.
The total volume and the feedback values need to be checked, on your vehicle.
This is done with a suitable diagnostic tool at cold start.
I changed out the injectors on a Hilux at 75,000kms, a couple of weeks ago, because the feedback values were out of range, and in the minus area, which means over fuelling. No one wants any piston damage.
Hope this helps, the Roo.

[Pete'90]

Thanks roo, I'm good thanks, pretty busy with work myself, will be better when I find out what's happening with my car.
It's good to hear you are busy especially in the current work climate, Signs of a well trusted mechanic in my books.
When I get it back on Monday I will post what he finds, although he is a good mechanic I have a feeling he is so flat out with vehicles coming and going that his thoroughness has started to slip. Hence why I'm concerned he said the bucket style shims did not need to be checked. Might be headed your way just for a service.

[Pete'90]

So I picked up my ute today injector values were as follows:

Cold start:
#1 max 0.00 min -0.15 mm3
#2 max 1.09 min 0.00 mm3
#3 max 0.00 min -0.46 mm3
#4 max 0.00 min -0.30 mm3


Operating temp
#1. Max 0.00 min -0.30 mm3
#2. Max 0.16 min -0.30 mm3
#3 max 0.47 min 0.16 mm3
#4 max 0.00 min -0.46.mm3

I understand the maximum as it's start value and it's minimum as it's final value

Target crp kpa 35000
Fuel pressure kpa 32730
Fuel temp fa 114 degrees 45.56 degrees c



He said the sump screen was clean but I have my doubts they checked, it does sound better but I'll leave that as a maybe until my next cold start.
Engine efficiency was apparently 99%
How does this look? How can you check for symptoms of blow by without dropping the oil again?

[Talktheroo]

Unfortunately Pete, the easiest way to check for blow by is by looking at the sump screen.
The feedback value range is from 3.0mm3 to -3.0mm3.
Well within range. I think. I am only looking at all the front zeros, though.
The Roo.

[Pete'90]

From what i understood, the feed back values are forever correcting themselves as you drive around ect. So he said the value started at one point and worked its way to the other value while the scan tool recorded it on a straight line graph for both cold start which he said they left at idle until it warmed up and then operating temp which they took on road to check whilst looking for other performance based results. He said the biggest difference on cold start up was injector #2 which started at 1.09mm3 compared to injectors #1,3,4 but was still well within spec
If this sounds silly to you roo please correct me as i would like to know more about the mechanics of my car
Thanks

[Pete'90]

Roo
I have drove my car the last 2days in a row, including a few cold starts with 10-12hrs in between starts and it has not blown any puffs of white smoke, so it must have been stale fuel on the cylinder head mixed with oil from an extended period of sitting in the garage. Ps it runs like a dream at the moment, got to love fresh oil and a good service.

[Talktheroo]

Yep, sounds good, Pete.
Just remember, that part of a good service is diagnostics.
The Roo.

[vornez]

The EGR puts a lot of recirculated exhaust gas back into the inlet manifold. Eventually large deposits of tar build up inside the inlet manifold and cylinder head. They also collect behind the valves. Every now and then it is possible, when the engine is off, that a clump of tar falls apart from behind the valve and into the cylinder, assuming that valve is open at that time. When the engine starts up that piece of tar burns which releases white smoke from the exhaust. Not a serious problem.

[Zoshayy]

i know this is an old topic but I thought may as well say. I just recently relized that I had a recall for the injector seats, so I took it to toyota (wouldn't go to toyota dealer for any other reason) for the recall to be carried out as well as the airbag spiral cable I think it was. About midday they called me and said my injectors needed replacing and it would cost $3300, I couldn't afford that at the time so I said no. Cut long story short the didnt end up doing my seals becuase they need to change the injectors at the same time. But in my understanding isnt the seals one of the reasons the injectors are failing in the first place. Should they be done even if the injectors arnt done yet. And I've heard of guys getting there seals done and they drive out with more problems that they drove in with. Is it even worth doing at toyota.

[fourby4diesel]

You have almost got the hang of it, like the part in brackets, take away last 4 words!
Good they tell you you need injectors & not just seats.
The seats is a separate & very serious issue.
Yes I get calls about how it runs worse after they do their thing, but surely you could get lucky?

How many Klm's?

[Zoshayy]

You have almost got the hang of it, like the part in brackets, take away last 4 words!
Good they tell you you need injectors & not just seats.
The seats is a separate & very serious issue.
Yes I get calls about how it runs worse after they do their thing, but surely you could get lucky?

So if I go back to them can I get my seals changed without doing the injectors will that be alright sorry I'm not that good when it comes to stuff like this.