Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby fourby4diesel on Tue, 21 Jul 2015 8:48 +0000

I know many of you do understand exactly what's happening, but there's thousands here that don't, & I can understand that. I would like to help the vehicles & owners.

This relates to Prado & Hilux with the 1kd-ftv diesel.
The engine has been around since 2000 & there are 3 variants.

In Aus, it came out in the Hilux in 2005 & Prado in 2006.

PROBLEM NUMBER 1.

The engine that was fitted to prados & hiluxes from the above dates, copper seats were used at the bottom of the injector, it's job is to seal the combustion chamber at the base of the injector. It has been proven thousands of times over these seats are not doing the job.

Image

In the above picture is what they look like.
The injector should be clean & free of debris.
You can see the seat/seal/sheet whatever you like to call it has let go.
Most of the time if they are still sealed, it's only just.

In the pic:
The top one, see the burn mark? It's leaking & has blown the oring & oil is leaking down also.
The middle one, just holding on.
The lower, seat leaking, oring in tact. These are the hardest to remove, dry baked.

Why does this matter?

Compression gasses are going into the engine oil area.
It bakes & carbonises the engine oil.
It slowly blocks the oil pickup. You can google for some nice pics of this.
The engine is starved of oil.
Next thing you know, your bottom end bearings are melted.
Other damage is done. You need a new motor.
Im not 100% sure what date the newer (grey look) coated seats were introduced, however I think it was all sorted by 01/2008.

Here's a set I recently removed from a 2007 120 series, seats still sealing well.

Image
150k & I have seen them over 200k, pretty much looking like that.
Anytime I see copper seats they are usually leaking.

A few more dodgy copper ones for you to analyse.
Image

If you have an early vehicle in those manufacture dates & would like to avoid this, have your injectors seats changed & oil pick up cleaned if there was blow-by.

The injector ports must be super clean
Image

All vehicles:
When you change your oil or have you oil changed check or ask them to look & check the oil pickup, as this is the tell tail sign of the leak at those seats.

In this pic, the oil pickup is pretty well blocked. 2 injectors had the leak/blow by.
Image
Yes somebody sold their problem, but lucky the new owner was smart enough to get it check immediately.

This is what the blocked oil pick ups look like with the sump off.
Too late for this one:
Image

How do I avoid this problem?

Don't loose sleep over it:

If your vehicle is 2005-06-07-08 get the injectors out & replace those seats.
I'd suggest you might just throw a fresh set of injectors at it as they are no less than 6-7 years old.

Then:

Change your oil & check the oil pick up every 5000klms.
Because the vehicles recycling system the oil does get contaminated fast, you not have to do the oil every 5k, however it will look after your engine better in the long term.
It also gives you more opportunity to check that oil pickup.

Early stages
Image
Image

Clean
Image
Last edited by fourby4diesel on Tue, 21 Jul 2015 9:29 +0000, edited 2 times in total.
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
Cheers, Anth - Technician - 1KD-FTV

Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby fourby4diesel on Tue, 21 Jul 2015 8:52 +0000

PROBLEM NUMBER 2.

CRD injectors - injectors themselves, nothing to do with the seat or seals.
Electronically controlled & heaps of moving parts wearing.
Lots of fuel pressure, 160,000kpa What's that? An F lot of pressure!
These little suckers are doing so much work & all that fuel pressure is constantly going through them. The finest grit in the fuel, being pushed through at huge pressure is wearing away the internals of the injector.

There are other issues, the tips do get a bit carboned up & this is sometimes reflected in the total volume, It can affect the spray pattern. So blocked & also you can have leaking injectors.

Once you have old flogged out injectors they can cause symptoms like running rough, smoke, & most common a rattle or knocking especially & mainly when cold.
CAUTION: they can be flogged out & because it happens slowly over time you may not notice any symptoms till its too late.

What's too late?

You have a piston with a hole or crack in it, now you need a new engine or some major repair work to be done.

Check pistons, part of injector job
Image

damage has started, but it's not shagged yet:
Image
Hard to see I took a pic of my laptop screen.
Image

Shagged!
A perfect example.
Image
Image

How do I avoid this problem?

Don't loose sleep over it, that's for sure.

PRIORITY: Have an expert plug in or DIY & do diagnostic every 10,000klms service.
If the feedback volumes or total volume etc, you need a fresh set of Injectors.

Try & use clean fuel, you can add an extra fuel filter, but that has not stopped it.

Change your fuel filters, regularly.
On Prado, one at the tank, not more than 20,000klms.
I suggest the same on the under bonnet one, 40,000klm as a minimum.

Chose between new or baileys blueprinted DENSO injectors, they are upgraded, BDG can tell you about them.
Maybe have a look at their website.

http://www.baileysdiesel.com/on-highway/diagnose-1kd-injectors-dont-risk-engine-damage/

Or you can use brand new DENSO made in Japan.
Last edited by fourby4diesel on Tue, 21 Jul 2015 9:25 +0000, edited 3 times in total.
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
Cheers, Anth - Technician - 1KD-FTV

Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby fourby4diesel on Tue, 21 Jul 2015 8:57 +0000

Zoshayy wrote:
fourby4diesel wrote:You have almost got the hang of it, like the part in brackets, take away last 4 words!
Good they tell you you need injectors & not just seats.
The seats is a separate & very serious issue.
Yes I get calls about how it runs worse after they do their thing, but surely you could get lucky?

So if I go back to them can I get my seals changed without doing the injectors will that be alright sorry I'm not that good when it comes to stuff like this.


Yes. For sure. That's their customer service exercise.

But, if they are telling you your injectors are gone, then they could be really bad.

You could supply them a set of injectors & pipes for under $2000, then you get free labour, but if you have seen what I have you wouldn't do it. You know it already.
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
Cheers, Anth - Technician - 1KD-FTV

Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Talktheroo on Thu, 23 Jul 2015 4:04 +0000

Don't loose any sleep over Toyota Service working on your vehicle. :lol:
The Roo.
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby fourby4diesel on Fri, 24 Jul 2015 7:32 +0000

Talktheroo wrote:Don't loose any sleep over Toyota Service working on your vehicle. :lol:
The Roo.


Or better, don't take risks like that.
:lol:
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
Cheers, Anth - Technician - 1KD-FTV

Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby fourby4diesel on Thu, 30 Jul 2015 5:20 +0000

Still waiting to get one with all 4 leaking, I've never had a foursome:

3some
Image
Image
Just a little bit blocked.
Image
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
Cheers, Anth - Technician - 1KD-FTV

Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby highoctane on Thu, 30 Jul 2015 5:40 +0000

fourby4diesel wrote:Still waiting to get one with all 4 leaking, I've never had a foursome:

3some
Image
Image
Just a little bit blocked.
Image


Has any damage been done to an engine being that blocked at the pickup?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby fourby4diesel on Thu, 30 Jul 2015 8:27 +0000

I think there would be. But lucky these engines are tough, they take a lot of crap.
Owners words" she runs like a dream now, no comparison to before".
Now it's in the right hands it will be sweeeeet!

Image

Image
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
Cheers, Anth - Technician - 1KD-FTV

Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Talktheroo on Sat, 01 Aug 2015 7:56 +0000

fourby4diesel wrote:
Talktheroo wrote:Don't loose any sleep over Toyota Service working on your vehicle. :lol:
The Roo.


Or better, don't take risks like that.
:lol:

I have, and it's not fun. It was this year, too.
Bloody rear back bolt on the cylinder head cover snapped off in the cylinder head, as well, on the same vehicle.
Some jobs just through you a curved ball.
The Roo.
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby smurfgq on Sun, 02 Aug 2015 1:44 +0000

I just did an oil change today and checked out the oil pick up, looked pretty clean and has shiny mesh, so hopefully will stay that way...
Image
Image
Hmmm.. 4X4ING, CAMPING, FISHING AND HUNTING... WHAT COULD BE BETTER...

CHEERS MICK...
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Talktheroo on Sun, 02 Aug 2015 3:15 +0000

Yep, nice and clean that screen. ;)
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Blowing smoke?

Postby Yowie on Sun, 30 Aug 2015 6:45 +0000

Hey everyone,

Just wondering if anyone had dramas with their hilux blwoing a white/grey smoke on start up. Only happens when it's parked nose down on decline. Looked at the turbo and had slight oil from crank vent tube but was told by turbo specialist to just fit a catch can and it'll sort itself out. Just wondering if it maybe leading to an injector issue down the track?
Isn't lacking power or having any dramas but just trying to find out why it's doing it.

Any info is appreciated.

Regards,
Josh
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Rocket55 on Sun, 30 Aug 2015 8:18 +0000

There's stacks of threads on this Josh, but this is probably the best one.

Odds are its your injector seals causing the issue.

Threads merged.
Cheers Rod
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Re: Blowing smoke?

Postby fourby4diesel on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 6:56 +0000

Yowie wrote:Hey everyone,

Just wondering if anyone had dramas with their hilux blwoing a white/grey smoke on start up. Only happens when it's parked nose down on decline. Looked at the turbo and had slight oil from crank vent tube but was told by turbo specialist to just fit a catch can and it'll sort itself out. Just wondering if it maybe leading to an injector issue down the track?
Isn't lacking power or having any dramas but just trying to find out why it's doing it.

Any info is appreciated.

Regards,
Josh


You are probably suffering the above pictured leaking injector seats.
What it it 05? 06? or 07?
How many Klm's?
You most likely want a fresh set of injectors for here & related work.
Do it ASAP or you might need an engine.
Please read my posts above hopefully that will explain it for you.
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
Cheers, Anth - Technician - 1KD-FTV

Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby EASTCOAST on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 6:54 +0000

Been reading and getting worried,,


09 sr5 just clicked over 130,000klms and it is started to get a little rattly last year and is progressively getting worse, defiantly cold rattles from what i have read.


From whats been written the 2009 has a better injector than the earlier models but does this eliminate the injector seals problems??

If they are still a part that wears over time and need to be replaced can anyone recommend a mechanic in or around the sutherland shire that has a good understanding of these motors like fourby4diesel, and Talktheroo, seem to have.

Cheers Gregg
******If you can ignore it its not a real problem******
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby fourby4diesel on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 7:03 +0000

EASTCOAST wrote:Been reading and getting worried,,


09 sr5 just clicked over 130,000klms and it is started to get a little rattly last year and is progressively getting worse, defiantly cold rattles from what i have read.


From whats been written the 2009 has a better injector than the earlier models but does this eliminate the injector seals problems??

If they are still a part that wears over time and need to be replaced can anyone recommend a mechanic in or around the sutherland shire that has a good understanding of these motors like fourby4diesel, and Talktheroo, seem to have.

Cheers Gregg


Good you have been reading,

Yep they're due at 120k.

The injector you have may not be better, but there's a good chance your new ones will.
In an 09 it's highly unlikely seats will leak. I have removed plenty & never found 1 leaking.
Even with 200k & never removed, but that is pushing it. They do erode away on the inside.

I drove past a couple of weeks ago could have done them then ;)
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
Cheers, Anth - Technician - 1KD-FTV

Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby EASTCOAST on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 7:21 +0000

So can the rattles cause any problems ? from what has been posted there is a debate as to what actually cause holes and cracks in pistons,

I'm looking to throw it at the mechanic to do the egr clean up, timing belt and water pump and more than likely injectors...With the knowledge and thoroughness to do the crank seal whilst in the motor that deep.... im just not that confident with the engine bits,,

Going to do the diff seal and bearing myself cause ive been there and done that before but the engine is a different story ......

Just don't want to give it to my usual mechanic that loves the simple oil and filter change then sends you on your way... if you know what i mean
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby fourby4diesel on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 8:06 +0000

EASTCOAST wrote:So can the rattles cause any problems ? from what has been posted there is a debate as to what actually cause holes and cracks in pistons,

I'm looking to throw it at the mechanic to do the egr clean up, timing belt and water pump and more than likely injectors...With the knowledge and thoroughness to do the crank seal whilst in the motor that deep.... im just not that confident with the engine bits,,

Going to do the diff seal and bearing myself cause ive been there and done that before but the engine is a different story ......

Just don't want to give it to my usual mechanic that loves the simple oil and filter change then sends you on your way... if you know what i mean


Yes, there's different noises, but some, well there's a reason it's there & not good.
Go by the diagnostics, not the noises.

I know what you mean.
Don't eat a "lubie" do this work.
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
Cheers, Anth - Technician - 1KD-FTV

Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Hellbound on Wed, 02 Sep 2015 5:00 +0000

Hey fourby is it possible for your average mechanically minded bloke to remove the sump to inspect the whole oil pickup ?
60% of the time, it works every time
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby fourby4diesel on Wed, 02 Sep 2015 5:06 +0000

You inspect the oil pickup with a torch through sump plug hole is all that is required.
If its blocked, besides getting the injectors out, I'd recommend a clean of it without removing the sump, as its a p.i.t.a. There's a thread here about pressure degreaser set up, that's the go.
So to that yes is the answer. Removing the sump, maybe not.
The above pics are Prado sump, much easier $110 ;)

Removing the injectors & related work to get it right, get an expert is my recommendation.
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
Cheers, Anth - Technician - 1KD-FTV

Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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