Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

[grogfrog]

G'day 4wd26,

The simplest test is that when you drain the oil, run it through a strainer, your bound to find some lumps if the injectors have been leaking for a while, they will be in there, the problem is only a small proportion of the lumps will flow out, the rest will be stuck in the sump, with enough there to suck up & eventually fully block the screen, result, Engine failure!

Its the lumps that are blocking he screen, not fine carbon in suspension that you might pick up in a oil test. Your filter will handle fines to a degree, although this is a big load on the filter and why some a recommending filter change every 5,000KLM, but this still will not stop those big lumps of carbon building up on your screen.

Check out the pics in Grog Frogs Myshed.

Once you have drained it, check the Oil pickup Screen by simply looking down the drain plug with a light or scope. You will either see a clean screen or a dirty one.

So far this check will probably have cost you nothing, unless you do find a Clogged Oil Screen. In this case you should obviously clean it and this will have a labour content.

The real value and piece of mind for the future is that you have actually taken the time to do this and possibly find an issue early before its too late.

Changing the seals every 45,000KLM seams to be the known adpoted solution to piece of mind in the Toytoa world oustide Australia.

What eventually kills the engine is the accumulation of this deposit over time. So if you can stop it by fixing the injector leak, then this is a start, the only next problem needing to be addressed ten is just how much of the Carbon accumulation is now on the Oil pickup screen, and is it already approaching terminal condition. This is why this check must also occur.

A few people have spend c. 3K done Injectors & seals, changed their oil, but then not so long after the engines have failed......Theu didn't check their Oil pickup screens at the same time. This should be part of any injector change proceedure.

GFrog

[sirrah2508]

Well a couple of months ago now my hilux shit its self at 120K Kms. Needed a complete engine rebuild and new set of injectors. Not much change out of $12K.

While I was searching on here to find the cause of the problem I saw numerous posts about people that were getting a lot of blue smoke on startup when their car was parked on a downhill slope. I too was having this problem for some months.
I spoke to Berrima Diesel regarding the matter and they told me not to worry about it its just the injector seals letting a small amount of oil drip down into the combustion chamber overnight and that a bit of oil never hurt any diesel engine.

Now the fellas down there have a pretty good reputation so I just left it at that. A few months later and KABOOM.....motor gone. Im glad it was only 500m from my front door as I am regularly travelling out towards bourse hunting and would have been a nightmare for it to happen out there.

Now the diagnosis from the mechanics was that this is a problem seen on some 2006 models and the motor was blown as gases were mixing with oil, creating some kind of hard carbon particles. These particles made it to my sump and eventually blocked the pick up all together.

So I just thought that id jump on here and let you blokes who were also having the same initial problem know. Don't listen to anyone when they say they can't find the cause of the problem of not to worry about it because it will happen.

Costs Bugger all to throw in a new set of seals and/or injectors compared to the price of a new engine.

[white_hilux]

sounds like the problem discussed in a very recent thread only started a few days ago

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13749

[white_hilux]

just curious, how many kms had that engine done?

[helmut79]

Second post deleted

[sirrah2508]

Sorry Fellas only just seen that other post just below explaining the same problem. Don't get on here much so didn't see it.

Cheers

[StevenS]

Right well I called Toyota back and spoke to Megan, one of the customer service people (the same who I spoke to last Friday).

Basically she says that Toyota is still investigation the issue, doesn't believe it is a problem here in Australia, and that if I have any concerns I should get my dealer to do a checkup (at my cost).

I would suggest anyone contacting Toyota ask to speak to this Megan girl, as she's aware of the issue and someone needs to light a fair under their collective arses to get a proper response from Toyota, as the usual reaction to this sort of negative publicity is to stay quiet and hope everyone forgets about it within a few weeks (which very often happens)

[grogfrog]

Well a couple of months ago now my hilux shit its self at 120K Kms. Needed a complete engine rebuild and new set of injectors. Not much change out of $12K.

While I was searching on here to find the cause of the problem I saw numerous posts about people that were getting a lot of blue smoke on startup when their car was parked on a downhill slope. I too was having this problem for some months.
I spoke to Berrima Diesel regarding the matter and they told me not to worry about it its just the injector seals letting a small amount of oil drip down into the combustion chamber overnight and that a bit of oil never hurt any diesel engine.

Now the fellas down there have a pretty good reputation so I just left it at that. A few months later and KABOOM.....motor gone. Im glad it was only 500m from my front door as I am regularly travelling out towards bourse hunting and would have been a nightmare for it to happen out there.

Now the diagnosis from the mechanics was that this is a problem seen on some 2006 models and the motor was blown as gases were mixing with oil, creating some kind of hard carbon particles. These particles made it to my sump and eventually blocked the pick up all together.

So I just thought that id jump on here and let you blokes who were also having the same initial problem know. Don't listen to anyone when they say they can't find the cause of the problem of not to worry about it because it will happen.

Costs Bugger all to throw in a new set of seals and/or injectors compared to the price of a new engine.

G'day Sirrah,

White Hilux has pointed you in the right direction re thread link, this was the "Tough but breakable thread" If you follow the entire link you will see Toyota Customer Experience contact point toward end. I would definately give them feedback on your problem and get a case number. Its not just the injectors but probably a blocked clogged oil pickup screen

Check out Grog Frogs My Shed for more pics & details.

Yours was a relatively low KLM failure

Grog Frog

[grogfrog]

Right well I called Toyota back and spoke to Megan, one of the customer service people (the same who I spoke to last Friday).

Basically she says that Toyota is still investigation the issue, doesn't believe it is a problem here in Australia, and that if I have any concerns I should get my dealer to do a checkup (at my cost).

I would suggest anyone contacting Toyota ask to speak to this Megan girl, as she's aware of the issue and someone needs to light a fair under their collective arses to get a proper response from Toyota, as the usual reaction to this sort of negative publicity is to stay quiet and hope everyone forgets about it within a few weeks (which very often happens)

Good on ya Steve! Thanks for trying. I think it will ultimately make a difference.

Toyota is a big company and we are like grains of sand in the sandpit, but if the grain of sand is stuck in the giants eye he is going to want & need to deal with it.

We know historically it is a good product, & Ultimately I think they are keen to improve the product but we have ensure firstly as good customers a)we make them fully and properly aware of the problem, b) and that they then respond to us properly on these issues.

The President of Toyota has made this commitment!! I just hope everybody is listening to him, the products future depends on it.

GFrog

[LuxTruck]

Scary stuff!

[clarkyinaus]

Mmm, interesting.....so the engine destruction is caused by oil starvation.....wouldn't the oil pressure light come on as the engine begins to starve?

[srextra]

dose anyone know if it is posible to clean the pickup screen or do you have to but a new part???

G'day SRExtra, you can definately wash the pickup screen & tube, once you can get to it. If you do a good job of it You should not need to replace this part. You need to also remove the carbon from the sump & top end if it is evident.

NZ techs in Auckland have told me that you can drop the sump in the car without fully pulling the engine, and clean it all out properly. Not quite sure how they go about that, since I would have thought to do it, the engine would need to come right out, but they tell me they have done a few "in car" sump & pickup screen cleans now.

Those Kiwis are quite a clever bunch!!

Gfrog

thank you once again greg, as always you seem to be a wealth of info on this one, i had a good look under the ute today and was scratching my head as to whether it was actualy possible to get the sump off without pulling the engine, do you know of anyone or have you infact done this with the donk still in the car? once again thanks for answering all of what may seem like stupid questions as much as you are scaring the s#@t out of me you are helping alot!!

[grogfrog]

Hi Clarky,

Now this is scary...The Oil pressure light comes on basically at the time the engine has siezed.

Not much warning eh!

Once prompted to begin investigating this potential for clogged screen, we found one vehicle with a virtually totally clogged screen, ie/ no mesh was visible at all, thus on the verge of failure but not quite over the edge, but this vehicle never showed a Low Oil pressure warning light.

One would be therefore led to beleive the light works on NO Pressure, rather than LOW pressure, but by the time you have no pressure, it's all over D4D!

Grog Frog

[grogfrog]

thank you once again grog, as always you seem to be a wealth of info on this one, i had a good look under the ute today and was scratching my head as to whether it was actualy possible to get the sump off without pulling the engine, do you know of anyone or have you infact done this with the donk still in the car? once again thanks for answering all of what may seem like stupid questions as much as you are scaring the s#@t out of me you are helping alot!!

Hey SR, now before you get too worried about dropping the sump, just drop the oil and try to look into the drain bung hole and inspect the screen, if it is clear, you should not have to worry about the sump & screen clean.

If its dirty then an intrusive inspection may be in order. I can only imagine how the Kiwis do the "In car" sump & screen clean. All power to 'em, but many OZ dealerships will opt for the full motor pull to achieve this. I would suggest the nature of our work practices here will dictate the latter proceedure.

Lets hope you do not need to get that radical bottom end, the simple inspection first will determine your options. I would however consider upgrading & doing your injector seals

GFrog

[srextra]

think ill drop my oil tomorrow night and have a looksee, fingers crossed all is good. how large of a procedure is it to do seals? im fairly handy on the tools but is it worth taking to an expert?

[grogfrog]

think ill drop my oil tomorrow night and have a looksee, fingers crossed all is good. how large of a procedure is it to do seals? im fairly handy on the tools but is it worth taking to an expert?

Hi Sam, I hope you get a clean bill of health downstairs too!

Mate, on the injector seals, I would go Genuine Service on this. Piece of mind really, otherwise if things go wrong big time you will be seriously on your own. I would probably just double check the seals are the silver looking plated ones with the spares guys, just in case any old stock is out there anywhere of the copper coloured ones.

Before they pull the injectors they will probably do a full injector operation check for faults. If all is in order, its just a simple seal replacement process. depending on mileage might be economical labour wise to address other items at same time, ie waterpump weap?, timing belt (c.150,000KLM), etc, if they need doing.

Hope this helps.

GFRog

[Blackie2008]

My next scheduled service is coming up soon 110,000kms. What should I get the service team to check and how can I make sure they actually do it??

[grogfrog]

My next scheduled service is coming up soon 110,000kms. What should I get the service team to check and how can I make sure they actually do it??

Hey Blackie, in respect to this thread, check for Oil Pickup Screen clogging (can be fatal) & Injector leaks. Study the entire thread for details.

Fast track to Grogfrogs Myshed for pic details of potential issues.

Do some thread searches on +Injector+leaks, plentty of info amongst this lot.

Good luck mate, I hope the Injectors are good, have not leaked, and your Oil Screen is clear.

G Frog

[grogfrog]

Bump For Blackie....Very late post

My next scheduled service is coming up soon 110,000kms. What should I get the service team to check and how can I make sure they actually do it??

Hey Blackie, in respect to this thread, check for Oil Pickup Screen clogging (can be fatal) & Injector leaks. Study the entire thread for details.

Fast track to Grogfrogs Myshed for pic details of potential issues.

Do some thread searches on +Injector+leaks, plentty of info amongst this lot.

Good luck mate, I hope the Injectors are good, have not leaked, and your Oil Screen is clear.

G Frog

[grogfrog]

Well a couple of months ago now my hilux shit its self at 120K Kms. Needed a complete engine rebuild and new set of injectors. Not much change out of $12K.

While I was searching on here to find the cause of the problem I saw numerous posts about people that were getting a lot of blue smoke on startup when their car was parked on a downhill slope. I too was having this problem for some months.
I spoke to Berrima Diesel regarding the matter and they told me not to worry about it its just the injector seals letting a small amount of oil drip down into the combustion chamber overnight and that a bit of oil never hurt any diesel engine.

Now the fellas down there have a pretty good reputation so I just left it at that. A few months later and KABOOM.....motor gone. Im glad it was only 500m from my front door as I am regularly travelling out towards bourse hunting and would have been a nightmare for it to happen out there.

Now the diagnosis from the mechanics was that this is a problem seen on some 2006 models and the motor was blown as gases were mixing with oil, creating some kind of hard carbon particles. These particles made it to my sump and eventually blocked the pick up all together.

So I just thought that id jump on here and let you blokes who were also having the same initial problem know. Don't listen to anyone when they say they can't find the cause of the problem of not to worry about it because it will happen.

Costs Bugger all to throw in a new set of seals and/or injectors compared to the price of a new engine.

G'day Sirrah,

White Hilux has pointed you in the right direction re thread link, this was the "Tough but breakable thread" If you follow the entire link you will see Toyota Customer Experience contact point toward end. I would definately give them feedback on your problem and get a case number. Its not just the injectors but probably a blocked clogged oil pickup screen

Check out Grog Frogs My Shed for more pics & details.

Yours was a relatively low KLM failure

Grog Frog

Bump for Sirrah,

Mate did reading the other thread help? I bumped it again for Blackie as well.

Hope it helped

Grogfrog