Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby apSlain on Wed, 01 Jun 2016 10:38 +0000

Read through all twenty-nine pages, just wanted to get a quick confirmation...

Firstly, seals / sheets / seats - these are all the same thing?

And there are two separate issues at play here - the seals themselves which causes the lubrication starvation and blocked sump screen, and the injectors themselves which are a wear and tear item that causes the white smoke at cold start?

I had my seals changed by Toyota (via the recall) about 20,000km ago, haven't had a chance to inspect the sump screen as of yet (no time!). The car's just hit 121,000km (it's a 2006 SR) which is around the time to get the injectors swapped out and a diagnostic at Baileys Diesel Group confirmed that yesterday (said the injectors were "not great").

Gonna drop the oil as soon as I can just to ensure the sump isn't clogged and take the expensive plunge on injectors and seals soon...right on time, too, according to many posts on the forum. I honestly have not felt any ill effects on the car which I've been actively monitoring - no black smoke, no white smoke, no blue smoke, no nose-down start smoke, decent fuel economy, good power, smooth idle (as smooth as a diesel can be)...the most I've noticed is some light rattling.

Ironically, got a fair bit of white smoke this morning the day after the diagnostic...pretty sure it's condensation in the exhaust buuut... :? It wasn't right on start - it was about a minute or two after the car started that smoke formed.

Now I'm just hoping the sump screen is alright so I can avoid a hefty cost to get that cleaned. So, I guess if you've got a pre-'08 'Lux that's nearing 120,000km, all those estimates of injectors being at their life's end around that time are true - according to diagnostics, anyway.
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby fourby4diesel on Wed, 01 Jun 2016 9:34 +0000

Yes same thing.

Yes 2 separate issues, but the sealing issue is the cause of the smoke in start up.

Injectors can cause rattles & cracked pistons.

Yep 120k, that's it!
New DENSO Injectors are the go! New genuine parts.
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Check your injectors about every 10,000k.
WARNING check oil pickup screen is clear
no chips no tune ups - why increase risk of piston cracking?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby apSlain on Thu, 02 Jun 2016 7:22 +0000

Thanks mate. If smoke at start-up (assuming the white smoke is not condensation) is caused by the sealing issue, then it's most likely that Toyota did not clean the ports when they did the recall-swap.

Can you (or anyone) advise on what other work should/can be done at the same time - e.g. when you do the water pump you should do the timing belt, etc. - in terms of both maintenance (ensuring the issue doesn't occur again) and convinience (x-component is already removed so you may as well do y-service to avoid the future labour cost)?

My preliminary list is:
  • Clean EGR (catch can already installed)
  • Clean Intake Manifold (catch can already installed)
  • Replace Injectors and Seals
  • Replace SCV
  • Replace Fuel Filter (and fit secondary filter which is sitting at home)
  • Replace Fuel Lines
Cheers!
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Talktheroo on Sat, 18 Jun 2016 6:05 +0000

apSlain wrote:Thanks mate. If smoke at start-up (assuming the white smoke is not condensation) is caused by the sealing issue, then it's most likely that Toyota did not clean the ports when they did the recall-swap.

Can you (or anyone) advise on what other work should/can be done at the same time - e.g. when you do the water pump you should do the timing belt, etc. - in terms of both maintenance (ensuring the issue doesn't occur again) and convinience (x-component is already removed so you may as well do y-service to avoid the future labour cost)?

My preliminary list is:
  • Clean EGR (catch can already installed)
  • Clean Intake Manifold (catch can already installed)
  • Replace Injectors and Seals
  • Replace SCV
  • Replace Fuel Filter (and fit secondary filter which is sitting at home)
  • Replace Fuel Lines
Cheers!

Yep, the improper cleaning of the injector ports is the new copper seat problem. It's now a human error problem with some people in the industry not doing the right thing towards their customer base.
The 120,000km comment. While this is a good general yard stick, and it does make sense to do it then, valve clearance schedule and all, I believe diagnostics is the answer to when you do your injectors. Diagnostics should be carried out by someone who knows what they are looking at, though. Because these electronic injectors are expensive, you should try and get the most out of them without being Captain Risky. I don't have a yard stick on this, as you can see by what I have just written.
To do with injector pipes. You can re-use the injector pipes twice, as long as they are clean and free of corrosion. That includes the fitting once at factory. So, once after that. Going three times gets into the Captain Risky area, and I have found that some pipes will leak at the point where the flange meets the injector. Some people in the diesel industry fit them time and time again, without to many problems. This is what I have found in my own dealings with injector pipes.
To do with GSIC recommendations of replacing the injector pipes each time. Well, TMC would want that, wouldn't they. Good for the Toyota Parts departments in your country. At $400.00 to $500.00 a set of 4 pipes, it's worth using the injector pipes twice, I think.
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Blackdelux on Mon, 27 Jun 2016 9:13 +0000

HI ALL
can some one confirm if theres anyway of checking seal that were done at recall as im getting lots of blowby? thru breather
can i take rocker cover off run it and see if theres any air escaping around injector??
i have read that this may cause my bad feed back value on one injector,
how would i take this up with dealer?
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Blackdelux on Mon, 27 Jun 2016 5:13 +0000

Blackdelux wrote:HI ALL
can some one confirm if theres anyway of checking seal that were done at recall as im getting lots of blowby? thru breather
can i take rocker cover off run it and see if theres any air escaping around injector??
i have read that this may cause my bad feed back value on one injector,
how would i take this up with dealer?

bump
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby TOYZX on Mon, 27 Jun 2016 6:11 +0000

I'd say the only way to check is to pull the injectors back out. What is making you think there's a lot of blow by? When was the recall done?

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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Blackdelux on Mon, 27 Jun 2016 6:34 +0000

had heaps of oi in intercooler/intake with a provent,
ive now vented to atmosphere thru provent and at night i can see lot of smoke coming out past / thru headlight light ?? surley cant be blowby (past piston rings)? can it?
recall about a year ago, and one injector at minus 2.4 cold rest very good, yes they have 140000ks the injector but are the newer version supplied by toyota and i run 2 stroke in diesel and injector cleaner regularly
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby TOYZX on Mon, 27 Jun 2016 7:32 +0000

There have been a few report of dealers not cleaning the injector prots properly when changing the seat, can lead to premature leaking. Get ya feedbacks checked, if one is miles out it may be leaking.

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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Blackdelux on Mon, 27 Jun 2016 7:59 +0000

TOYZX wrote:There have been a few report of dealers not cleaning the injector prots properly when changing the seat, can lead to premature leaking. Get ya feedbacks checked, if one is miles out it may be leaking.

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would it be a positive feedback or negative? ive got techsteam
thanks for your responses
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby TOYZX on Mon, 27 Jun 2016 8:13 +0000

Can't help ya there mate, maybe one of our local toyota techies will chime in. I'd just be looking to see if one is abnormal and the rest fine.

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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby DeadlyBeast on Mon, 27 Jun 2016 9:42 +0000

Negative reading is from a leaking injector.
Jump to the techstream thread
Test again at operational temp
-ve 2.4 cold not a great feedback value for a new injector
As TOYZ says that injector port probably not cleaned.
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Blackdelux on Tue, 28 Jun 2016 6:26 +0000

thanks deadlybeast and toyzx, :D
i might just take it out and clean it myself :evil:
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby Talktheroo on Tue, 28 Jun 2016 3:14 +0000

TOYZX wrote:I'd say the only way to check is to pull the injectors back out. What is making you think there's a lot of blow by? When was the recall done?

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My mate, a lot of people in the industry have not been cleaning out the injector ports properly. They have been leaving engine oil in the ports and this means there is little heat transfer for the coating to bond to the injector nozzle. It has to be clean, otherwise, no bonding or little bonding of the coating that is on the injector seats.
Engine oil acts as an insulator.
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby llough10 on Wed, 29 Jun 2016 9:02 +0000

I have a 2006 Toyota Hilux that is about to undergo the Injector Seat recall. In addition, Toyota will be assessing the injector tips; this could lead to an oil pickup screen check, again covered by Toyota Australia :)

I am at 290km and not noticing anything out of character - maybe a little cold-rattle, that we are all too familiar with :)

Regardless, I am getting the injector values checked and the injector health assessment, whilst the seats are being replaced.

Any tips on what I should ask Toyota to provide for piece of mind i.e before/after photos of injector ports.
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby TOYZX on Wed, 29 Jun 2016 9:42 +0000

I'm pretty sure the good techies (like the Roo!) Usually to a piston inspection and an actual valve clearance chech while they r in there.

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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby llough10 on Thu, 30 Jun 2016 6:29 +0000

TOYZX wrote:I'm pretty sure the good techies (like the Roo!) Usually to a piston inspection and an actual valve clearance chech while they r in there.

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Excellent - I'll give Toyota a ring this morning, just to double check. Thank you!
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby llough10 on Fri, 01 Jul 2016 8:08 +0000

Just got the Hilux returned - values for injectors were all within safety range... except for No. 3!

I still love this truck though and will continue to take care of her ;)
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby SRD4D on Tue, 19 Jul 2016 1:55 +0000

Facebook ..........The Australian toyota hilux 4WD group https://www.facebook.com/groups/296534054022895/
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Re: Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

Postby jay73 on Tue, 26 Jul 2016 4:40 +0000

on a 2013 hilux turbo diesel 2kd ftv . i am trying to tell the mekanic to check my sump oil screen but he keeps telling me with firm tone that the engine need to be removed to get to it. i asked 3 other mekanics and they told me same thing. ppl here hv no idea about injector seals n that whole 9 yard. i am disappointed bz i really dont want em to remove my engine . there are practically no good mekanic shop and they throw things around dirt everywhere bolts nuts all over somtimes they forget to put bck hardware or forget to tighten em bz low wages etc am in africa. is it really possible to see the screen with flashlight from oil emptying plug. i was told repeatitly that the plug and the screen are not in the line of view n impossible to see that way. c. am thinking next time they do my oil change myself n look but i hv to forcr n n be pushy bz they keep telling me that u cant see it i dont do oil chnge by myself at home or anything like am not very hand can some of u shed some more light on this please thx
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