Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

[DAVE07]

Good morning gents,

I read a write up in the herald sun this morning on the Hilux. For those of you who cant get your hands on the paper.. here is the link:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/ute-to ... 6351998636

Ute is tough but breakableby: Graham Smith From: National Features May 10, 2012 7:00PM

NEW The arrival of the Toyota HiLux at the top of the sales chart a few years ago showed that Australians were looking for an all-round vehicle that could perform several roles.
..In its high-end dual-cab configuration it could be a family car but one that could haul a tradie trailer, tow a caravan or simply look cool cruising to the beach.

The humble ute is no longer just a working-class vehicle.

Toyota covered all bases with its wide range of body styles in two- and four-wheel drive configurations, and the choice of petrol or turbo diesel engines. The 2005 HiLux had more cabin space, bigger payloads, better performance and economy and improved safety, comfort and equipment.

Underneath, the conventional ladder chassis had coil-spring front suspension and semi-elliptic leaf springs at the rear. Steering was by power-assisted rack and pinion and brakes were a combination of front discs and rear drums, with ABS available on the SR5.

At the working end of the range the Workmate had an updated 2.7-litre four-cylinder petrol engine but the heroes of the line-up had new V6 and turbo diesel engines.

The new 4.0-litre petrol V6 put out an impressive 175kW/376Nm, which gave it all the punch you could possibly want. But the performance came at a cost, as it guzzled unleaded like there was no tomorrow.

The answer to the pump blues was the turbo diesel, with its impressive 120kW/343Nm and much better fuel economy. The V6 and turbo diesel could be coupled with manual or automatic transmissions, and both were available with rear drive or 4WD.

-- NOW

Toyota has always boasted that the HiLux is unbreakable but perhaps it's not as unbreakable as it has led us to believe. A potentially serious problem has come to light affecting the 1KD-FTV diesel engine used in the HiLux (and Prado) relating to the fuel injector seals.

The seals can leak, letting blow-by gases enter the engine oil stream, which can turn the oil to carbon and eventually clog the oil pick-up in the sump, in some cases starving the engine of oil. The worst-case scenario is engine seizure.

Such is the seriousness of the issue that Toyota has had a recall on HiLuxes in Britain, while in New Zealand the company has introduced a requirement to change the injector seals every 45,000km.

Carsguide has had one report of total engine failure, requiring a new engine, and two others where the engines were inspected and found to have carbon at least partly clogging the oil pick-up - the suggestion is that, had they been allowed to run on without the inspection, they too would have suffered a major engine meltdown.

To date there has been no indication from Toyota here that it will instigate a similar recall campaign as in Britain. Owners of HiLuxes with the 1KD-FTV engine would be well advised to have their dealers inspect the oil pick-up to check on carbon build-up and have it cleaned if carbon is found. It's possible to inspect the oil pick-up by inserting a probe through the oil drain plug without removing the sump. It would also be prudent to change the injector oil seals.

In 2010 Toyota recalled 4WD models to check for a possible failure of the tailshaft support bracket. Ensure any vehicle you're thinking of buying has been checked and cleared of this problem. Given the potential to be used as a tradies' hack or offroad, it's important to thoroughly inspect any Hilux being considered for purchase. It's particularly important to check underneath any 4WD model for damage.

We've heard of CV joint seals splitting, so make these one of your checks. Check for regular servicing and, particularly in light of the potential issues with the diesel, check for evidence of regular oil changes.

-- SMITHY SAYS Tough as nails but be aware of potential for oil starvation problems with the diesel engine. It's a deal breaker.

-- AT A GLANCE

Toyota HiLux 2005-09

Two and a half stars

PRICE New $20,990-$51,850 Now $13,500-$42,000

ENGINE 2.7-litre 4-cylinder petrol, 118kW/241Nm; 4.0-litre V6 petrol, 175kW/376Nm; 3.0-litre 4-cylinder turbo diesel, 120kW/343Nm.

TRANSMISSION 5-speed manual, 5-speed auto (V6), 4-speed auto (TD); RWD, 4WD

ECONOMY 13.1L/100km (V6), 8.5L (TD)

BODY Single cab, extra cab, double cab

VARIANTS Workmate, SR, SR5

SAFETY Rating 4-star ANCAP

EXPECT TO PAY $13,500-$21,000 for Workmate double cab; $28,000-$41,000 for 4WD SR5 extra cab; $29,500-$42,000 for 4WD SR5 double cab; $16,500-$30,000 for SR double ca.

*** Others to consider

- NISSAN NAVARA D40 2005-10

Most comfortable and refined of the one-tonne utes but issues with clutches and cam timing chains dampen its appeal.

Pay $21,500 to $41,000

2.5 stars

- MITSUBISHI TRITON 2006-10

Swoopy style but tough as nails. The Triton has decent petrol and diesel options with a wide choice of body styles and models. Should be high on the shopping list.

Pay $12,000 to $43,600

4 stars

- FORD RANGER 2007-10

Ford had only diesels in the Ranger and focused on the recreational market but the Ranger is worth considering. A good all-rounder.

Pay $12,500-$40,000

3.5 stars

COMING UP

Do you own or have you owned a Mazda6? Share your experience with other Carsguide readers by sending your comments to graham.smith@carsguide.com.au or write to Carsguide, PO Box 4245, Sydney, NSW, 2010.

[Hilux Max]

Given the potential to be used as a tradies' hack or offroad, it's important to thoroughly inspect any Hilux being considered for purchase. It's particularly important to check underneath any 4WD model for damage.

Thank God none of our vehicles on this forum fall within this grouping

In regards to removing the oil pan -

Remove the 4 bolts and oil level gauge sensor.

Remove the 22 bolts and 2 nuts.

Insert the blade of a oil pan seal cutter between the oil pan and cylinder block, cut through the applied sealer and remove the oil pan.

NOTICE:
Do not use a oil pan seal cutter for the timing belt case side and rear oil seal retainer.

Be careful not to damage the oil pan flange.

Then for the oil strainer sub assy -
Remove the 2 bolts, 2 nuts, oil strainer and gasket.

The part number for the oil strainer/nozzle is 1570830011 and about $25 I rekon its cheap insurance if this is true compared to the cost of an engine and not that difficult to do if you have the time. Remember, you will need to clean the oil pan and engine block mating surfacing once seperated then lay a new bead of silicon before reinstallation.

[Nick#]

pitty they skipped the whole injector thing all together

[DAVE07]

pitty they skipped the whole injector thing all together

True but atleast they captured the most important thing.. A photo of the lux ploughing through some sand dunes.. Looks tough lol

[Alby]

pitty they skipped the whole injector thing all together

Maybe because it is not any bigger issue than what other brands are experiencing??

As a precausionary measureI had my ute checked at an independent Diesel injector/motor specialist on Tuesday and I quizzed the owner about our motors and any issues and he said apart from some injector dramas with the earlier models that are experiencing nothing different to all the other brands out there, bad fuel (water) and dirty oil will kill any common rail motor. He said as long as you keep the maintenance up there is nothing to be concerned about.

[Nick#]

pitty they skipped the whole injector thing all together

Maybe because it is not any bigger issue than what other brands are experiencing??

quote]

Talking to people that work at toyota it is a huge issue, not sure if its worse than other brands but there is no way anyone should be expecting to shell out $3k plus on a car thats only done 100,000kms

We should set up a survey on here to see how many people have actually replaced the injectors

[grogfrog]

Read with interest the Melb. Herald sun Article

Tough but breakable

This would relate to the locked thread:

Injector seal leak=oil pickup block=engine failure D4D

Perhaps we can start a new thread on this issue.

the recall mentioned in the UK is no doubt related to the same link:

http://www.toyota-tech.eu/toms_cabs/EN/1KET-015.pdf

Hope that dealerships in OZ can start to assist owners with simple checks before the injector leak issue allows their engines to prematurely self destruct.

[Dave]

Guys please keep this topic on track...

[sirlux]

Hopefully this hurts the Toyota/Hilux
Brand enough to warrant a recall.
Thanks for posting this story!!!

[StevenS]

Well as this previously known problem has actually appeared in the media I decided to contact Toyota directly for their response, and if they were going to follow suit with Toyota UK

I was told that Toyota Australia actually had no idea about this problem until the Sun Herald brought it to their attention and that they do not believe it to be a major problem.

Either way Toyota Australia is now considering its position regarding this issue and I'm supposed to hear back from them on Monday when they have determined the course of action, if any, that they will be taking.

It may not result in a recall but instead a "customer service exercise", which means they would replace it for a particular year/model range if the customer expresses a concern about it. It also makes it easier for them to keep the issue under wraps and limit media exposure - after all the Hilux has often been touted as unbreakable and that point is one of the few things that helps it stay amongst the top in sales. It's not an image they want to lose.

[srextra]

as far as i know this is a widely known problem with the d4d i bought my truck in 09 and it had just had the injectors replaced, have had no problems since but im sure with regular oil changes this should not be a problem anyway, on another note i just got a recall notice for my tailshaft loop in the mail yesterday has anyone else had this recall notice?

[grogfrog]

G'day SteveS,

Its good that people are starting to elevate this issue with Toyota. It sound like you have a good entry point there. It would be great to get some good feedback on this, and any response from them Monday would be of great interest. Toyota's response to you is correct in that presently "they" do not have a problem with this in Australia, since the problem & costs are currently is being borne by many of their Australian customers. This is different to their response elsewhere, were they have assisted at no cost. This does not seem fair.

A "customer service exercise" as you have suggested would be a great idea in regard to these injector problems, It is being done for their customers in other countries, why not us?

It would certainly keep customers happy, with what essentially is a great product. And prevent a small problem from becomming a big one, particularly if you end up with a blown motor that could have been prevented with the right service response in the first instance.

GFrog

[Allaway]

don't worry guys, i'm about to shell out $2.5k to replace my injectors this week (toyota quoted me $4.5k). so, no doubt the week after i get them installed they'll start ding it for free

[Hilux Max]

fit a small block on gas....wouldnt be that much more expensive if you do the work yaself would it?

[grogfrog]

G'day Allaway,

Murphies law on your injectors, Know how that feels. But what ever you do, if you have change your injector seals & injectors, Don't forget to to check your Oil pickup screen at the same time. It could save your engine, and is just a good piece of mind. Simple as dumping the oil and looking up the sump drain plug for a clear screen mesh. Probably a good time to strain that dumped oil too looking for heavy contaminant. I will look forward to authorised service agents actually recommending such a simple check when we do shell out 3K+ on our new injectors.

But if you got a dirty screen, Then I highly recommend all that carbon be removed from your donk before you head off.

Its great now I see a few guys doing this now "as a precautionary measure". Very wise.

G Frog

[grogfrog]

Hi Sam (Srexstra),

At least you have the benefit of new injectors being fitted. I will advised though that if an Injector leak has occured over a period of time,

Not even Regular oil changes will remove the problem contaminant that will kill your engine.

Its a heavy granulated carbon contaminant that sits in the sump base and will not pass the low internal slot of the sump bung, it just sits their and collects, no matter how many oil changes you do.

Because it is no like a sludge, that is why it sucks up on the screen and slowly blocks it, the worst granules are say 2-5mm in diameter. Too bad they stay captured in the sump.

Don't think just oil changes will deal with it, unfurtunately I can say for sure this is not the case. So it would be very wise to check if your screen is clear.

Good luck, Gfrog

[grogfrog]

G'day Nick#,

A survey on Injector changes would be interesting. More importantly, I wonder how many people noticed Internal rocker cover carbon contamination at the injector when they did this, It is signs of this that is the eventual killer of our donks, and indicated a seal leak in the first instance!

Of course not every injector issue will be associated with seal leaks, bu many are.

Gfrog

[Alby]

Grog frog , do you have a problem with your injectors? What year model is your Lux?

[redirtlux]

Hi all,
just bought my hilux 2007 model with 60,000 k's d4d auto 4x4 single cab.
Noticed rattle in engine after a while.
Spent $1600 for 4 new injectors and have cleaned out inlet manifold and EGR.
Engine still rattles and sounds like crap.
I can only compare it too the 2 1KZ-TE engines I had previously.
So far no where near as quiet and smooth.
See what happens on Tuesday after Toyota do a reflash on ECU, hopefully it make it run smooth and quiet.
cheers

[grogfrog]

G'day Alby,

Injectors were actually working OK, In fact engine was running well with no signs at all of problems, no "death rattle" no smoke, etc, etc, regualrly serviced with regualr oil changes at a well known dealer.

Injector seal (washer) leaks, only discovered after failed engine teardown, when we actually pulled the injectors out, and found the packed in carbon between the injector and the injector port.

This carbon from combustion leak can pack in so tight it re-seals the combustion chamber to a point, thus further masking the problem, but because of the pressure it still slowly migrates out of the port into the oil galleries and down into the sump, slowly collection until the final Oil pick up screen blockage and oil starvation kills the engine.

As I mentioned, I can see now that no matter how many oil changes you do, you will not get rid of this stuff unless you drop the sump and do a major clean out. So you can't blame dealer, they need to know what to look out for via a Toyota TSB or something similar, like in Europe.

Its not really an injector problem, it is an injector seal problem, and if, like in NZ, they change 'em out every 45,00O KLM, it will never get enough buildup to kill you engine.

Looks like the Kiwi Techs at Toyota NZ are one step ahead of our blokes in helping keep customers cars properly maintained.

GFrog