Dangers of Strut spacers

Dangers of Strut spacers

Postby VMN on Sat, 22 May 2010 6:36 +0000

Hi guys, I've been doing a bit of research on Strut spacers. Ken at Ultimate Suspension suggested that it would be a very worthy topic to discuss as he reckoned they were dangerous but he and Brendan went off overseas yesterday so they could not send me any pics. Anyway, Jerry Zaiden at Cambug in the US came to the rescue and sent me a couple of photos showing the damage that spring spacers can cause.

You see because the spring and strut are dropped lower, on full suspension droop, the strut does not limit suspension travel as normal (because the suspension has is already partly extended) . As a result, the ball joint can bind when normal operating limits are over extended.:

Image

This can then damage the ball joint

Image

Now just go back and look at the first picture again and visualise what might happen when you are sailing down the highway and if the ball joint was to fail.... :o :o

Now think about what could happen if this happens:

Image

Yes, I know the spacer in this case is pretty extreme, but this one is not all that big and you can see the same bit of strut is missing:
Image

And damage to the ball joint also ocurred:

Image

I know Macca has had a strut fail while strut spacers were fitted (he has since removed them!) and he has posted a pic on the forum of the failed shock in the past.

So If you have got some Strut spacers fitted, I would suggest that you closely inspect your ball joints, check to see if they bind on full droop and give serious consideration to removing the spacers immediately as they could be putting your life at risk!

Maybe this is worthy of being a sticky thread.
Last edited by VMN on Sun, 23 May 2010 5:58 +0000, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dangers of Spring spacers

Postby Hilux Max on Sat, 22 May 2010 7:16 +0000

Well done Rod, Ive been saying the very same thing for ages.....especially after seeing a few pics of struts with busted lower shafts....


There was one person, cant remember who it was off the forum ages ago that PM'd me for help/advice because his lower shaft had brocken whilst "mildly" wheeling his hilux....because of the moment on the axle when it broke, it pulled the driveshaft out of the differential with some internals with it aswell...

an extreme example of this I know and rare but not impossible....imagine you hit a pot hole or something similar doing 80kph and it was the straw that broke the horses back, lower shaft of shock breaks, that side of the suspension collapses, tyre jammed inside the guard, driveshaft ripped out and flapping about under speed shredding bits and pieces....if you still have the vehicle upright, you can call yourself fortunate and hope you slow down enough with all the skidding going on and not hit anything/anyone.

The reason Ive always said in past threads related to this when fitting it, if you must and really want to, EXTEND YOUR BUMP STOPS BY THE EQUIVALENT AMOUNT!

atleast you bumpstops will be stopping the strut from bottoming out...yes, youll have less uptravel considerably less than stock but whats your live worth? or your family? bugger the bloody hilux!

for anything other than driving on the street for looks (and even then not reccomended) save up and do it properly!
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Re: Dangers of Spring spacers

Postby olcoolone on Sat, 22 May 2010 7:24 +0000

Rod, had thought about them but decided against it...more them likely look at the Ultimate setup.

And a body lift! :shock:
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Re: Dangers of Spring spacers

Postby VMN on Sat, 22 May 2010 7:27 +0000

Yes Max, I nver understood how bad these things are until I saw Jerry's photos!

And closer to home here is what happened to Macca
Image

And he was a long way from home see:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2350&p=28659
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Re: Dangers of Spring spacers

Postby Hilux Max on Sat, 22 May 2010 7:31 +0000

Image

Image
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Re: Dangers of Spring spacers

Postby VMN on Sat, 22 May 2010 7:38 +0000

olcoolone wrote:Rod, had thought about them but decided against it...more them likely look at the Ultimate setup.

And a body lift! :shock:


Yes in the early days, I considerd them too.

Waxing off topic now, if I was really cheeky while Ken and Brendan are out of the country, I'd say go the body lift with a 2-3" suspension lift because the headlights will be too high to do both a BL and Ultimate's suspension according to the ADRs!

You have a real advantage down there in SA olcoolone becasuse body lifts are able to be legally fitted without engineering provided you use aluminium blocks. The only down side is ally costs more but not near as much as engineering does in other states! More details on my web site on this link
http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/menu-web- ... ework.html
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Re: Dangers of Spring spacers

Postby VMN on Sat, 22 May 2010 7:41 +0000

mmaaxx wrote:Image


Max, you are a bad man! I hit preview while writing my last post and all I saw was this kitten staring me down!
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Re: Dangers of Spring spacers

Postby notsoruff on Sat, 22 May 2010 10:02 +0000

How high are these lifts that these guys are running it would have to be high to make those ball joints break
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Re: Dangers of Spring spacers

Postby Bull on Sun, 23 May 2010 4:22 +0000

Good thread Rod and it probably should become a sticky.
I tell people all the time not to fit spacers but having all the photographic evidence in one place will make them easier to convince.
The other no-no is fitting a suspension lift for the purpose of running taller tyres. If your tyres can foul on the body at full bump, eventually they will.
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Re: Dangers of Strut spacers

Postby VMN on Sun, 23 May 2010 5:19 +0000

notsoruff wrote:How high are these lifts that these guys are running it would have to be high to make those ball joints break


Looks like the spacers readilly available in Austraila (says he not mentioning any names in case they sue) are 35mm high and give 50mm of lift.

The height of the lift is not the issue. On the standard suspension, the strut acts like a limiting strap to limit suspension droop before the ball joint binds and gets damaged. With a spring spacer fitted, the limiting is basically extended 35mm. This is a long way in terms of suspension travel. I have never fitted these spacers myself but If I had, after seeing this I would be jacking up the front and checking out the balljoint angle on full droop. If it looked like it could be binding, I'd be trying to get a peek under the rubber boot to check it was still OK.

Macca's lift would not have been extreme, he only runs 31" tyres
Last edited by VMN on Sun, 23 May 2010 5:59 +0000, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dangers of Spring spacers

Postby camwill69 on Sun, 23 May 2010 5:38 +0000

Rod/Max,
Can I please clarify one thing. I think you are both actually talking about STRUT SPACERS not SPRING SPACERS. These are 2 very different components and it should be made clear of the difference.

SPRING SPACERS are fitted between the coil spring and the top hat of the strut.

STRUT SPACERS are fitted between the strut top hat and the chassis strut mount.

Two very different modifacations with two very different results. Neither result is good but need to be looked at separately. People will need to look at different failure points as these products work very differently and cause different issues.

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Re: Dangers of Spring spacers

Postby VMN on Sun, 23 May 2010 6:01 +0000

camwill69 wrote:Rod/Max,
Can I please clarify one thing. I think you are both actually talking about STRUT SPACERS not SPRING SPACERS. These are 2 very different components and it should be made clear of the difference.

SPRING SPACERS are fitted between the coil spring and the top hat of the strut.

STRUT SPACERS are fitted between the strut top hat and the chassis strut mount.

Two very different modifacations with two very different results. Neither result is good but need to be looked at separately. People will need to look at different failure points as these products work very differently and cause different issues.

Regards,
Cam


Quite right Cam, we both knew what we were talking about :oops: :oops: . I have edited the thread title to reflect that we are indeed talking about Strut spacers.
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Re: Dangers of Strut spacers

Postby camwill69 on Sun, 23 May 2010 6:41 +0000

Hey Rod,
Yes I new you and Max new what you were talking about. Just thought it might get a bit confusing. Great article and timely advise.
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Re: Dangers of Strut spacers

Postby 9W6VX on Sun, 23 May 2010 10:21 +0000

I have made this a sticky.

Thanks guys for highlighting this.
Cheers

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Re: Dangers of Strut spacers

Postby pootrol on Sun, 23 May 2010 1:45 +0000

can some one explain to me how a strut spaced stock coil over is different to a 2" lifted coil over. it should be the same overall length hence pushing the control arms to the same angle which then creates the lift. i would of thought the ball joint issue would be the same for both. i can understand the bottom of the shock snapping cos of weaker material and the spacer prob creating more tension due to its mount point being lowered.
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Re: Dangers of Strut spacers

Postby VMN on Sun, 23 May 2010 4:05 +0000

pootrol wrote:can some one explain to me how a strut spaced stock coil over is different to a 2" lifted coil over. it should be the same overall length hence pushing the control arms to the same angle which then creates the lift. i would of thought the ball joint issue would be the same for both. i can understand the bottom of the shock snapping cos of weaker material and the spacer prob creating more tension due to its mount point being lowered.


Because you can make a higher shock/spring combo but keep the length of the piston short enough to limit the down travel so the ball joint does not bind.
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Re: Dangers of Strut spacers

Postby pootrol on Sun, 23 May 2010 5:48 +0000

ahh ok i get the down travel will get limited by the shock length on say a 2" lifted susp so theres more up travel compared to down hence acting like a limiter. but i think in the case of a lux a spaced stock susp will only travel as far as sway bar and weight of the wheel allows. theres no mechanical down force like a solid axle so if you do have spacers and drive around with one of the front wheels in the air most of the time it would be a concern. i think we need to get some measurements of full droop between 2" susp and stock + 35mm spacer to back this info up. id be very interested to see how much mine over extends it self compared to 2" susp. it would be proof that you need to spend coin for the engineering that goes into this stuff. ill measure mine up tomorrow with full droop.
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Re: Dangers of Strut spacers

Postby VMN on Sun, 23 May 2010 6:23 +0000

Maybe the swaybar will be limiting, but we have had two Hiluxes now that have had problems mentioned on this thread so it is definitely worth checking out.

pootrol wrote: ill measure mine up tomorrow with full droop.


I might have time to do likewise tomorow on a lifted truck too. What are we measuring? Maybe a photo of the ball joint on full droop would be a start.
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Re: Dangers of Strut spacers

Postby Hilux Max on Sun, 23 May 2010 6:26 +0000

The sway bar doesnt limit down travel, I found that out with my experient ages ago when I remvoed it, it does thou give you more uptravel.

its the shock length itself and how far it can extend and compress that become the limiting factors when you place a spacer on top and change the paramaters.
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Re: Dangers of Strut spacers

Postby pootrol on Sun, 23 May 2010 7:21 +0000

yeah rod ill jack mine up on the crossmember and just let the front wheels droop. ill measure from wheel arch to centre of wheel. mines running stock with spacers. im interested in this cos i can see every ones point about my down travel prob being a danger. ill get pics as well. be good chance to check it out as well.
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