Bilstein and Suspension Lift Questions...

[Jim...]

I'm looking at lifting my 05 dual cab approx 2" with Lovell springs frount and rear.
Considering Bilstien shocks and struts, does any one have the part numbers?
I've seen alot of info on here, however can't track down the appropriate part numbers so I can conpare prices???
I want to buy "locally" in Perth WA.

[JDOG123]

Anybody bend the adjustable ring on their shock and what do you do if you did bend one? Can any snap ring work?

[soulja-on]

Can anyone tell me how to check if my shocks are bottoming out and/or topping out with out removing strut and taking the coil off.
What i have tried is jacking the whole front up and seeing how far the wheels will drop. My UCA comes very close to the coil but doesn't hit it.
I also tried jacking up one side under the LCA to see how far the shock/coil compress but the whole vehicle begins to lift up and my bump stop is no where near the LCA.
I am running the bilstein 5100 ride height adjustables with king spring KTFR-101 coils. I have the snap ring on the 3rd notch (2nd from top) My worry is that the extra coil length will cause problems for me when wheeling in the sticks. I have searched many a forums to see if anyone else has run this strut combo and it leaves me even more worried to find no one has?

I purchased the shocks from locktup4x4, really nice shock. Matched with the king coils it has given me 50mm lift.
http://locktup4x4.com.au/bilstein-ride- ... r-493.html

In the rear i have Tough dog leafs and the bilstein 2-3'' shocks also from locktup.
http://locktup4x4.com.au/bilstein-5100- ... -1398.html

Hopefully someone knows more about this.
Cheers

[Darrie]

Ok - you just need to sort out whats going on with your custom setup. Firstly email Kings for their specs on the coil stroke value - check this against the bilstein travel specs to ensure the coil is not going to bind before the shock fully compresses. This gives you peace of mind !

Then try a dab of grease on the top of the bumpstop rubbers (both the extension stops and the compression stops), and go give the suspension a hard workout - see if the grease appears on the arms indicating the suspension is fully cycling.

Your next step is to see where your bilstein clip setting is locating the arms in their range of travel.

Start first with the car standing normally & measure the distance between the bumpstops and where they will touch the control arms. There should be a bumpstop rubber for extension under the UCA, and a compression bumpstops that limits upward travel possibly on both arms (I have hilux surf and the location/number of bumpstops may be deifferent.) Compare the distance downwards available before the bottom of the CA's hit the bumpstops to the distance upwards before the top of the CA's touches the upper bumpstops. Ideally you should have a maximum ratio of 1/3 distance downwards, 2/3 upwards. Any higher ratio (say 1/4 down, 3/4 up and you run the risk of the suspension topping out over small bumps giving you a woeful ride. This ratio alone will tell you if the #3 clip setting on the bilsteins is suitable, and if set at too high your suspension wont operate well and will hop over small bumps, and fail to fully compress -effectively you have limited your suspension travel.

Then lift one side of the car from the chassis (think you know this but normally you must jack from the chassis not under the LCA to see extension.)- check that the suspension then extends to the lower bumpstops. If it doesn't then there is a problem with the length of the coilover shock assembly or your CA's have bush binding issues - you need to take out one end of the coilover strut to work out what the issue is.

If it reaches full extension then its time to check compression - best way I've found is in 4wd load one wheel hard into an unclimable bank where it pushes the wheel solidly up into the wheel arch. Then brake, chock the wheels firmly and look at your distance between the compression bumpstops. Ideally you expect to be below 10mms off touching the bumpstops as the coil in theory should have some up its sleeve - this is just normal - reserve is for hard compression on a serious bump like a big washout under speed. If its already compressing the bumpstop then thats indicating the coil you have is underated and you should be looking at a heavier weighted coil. If its nowhere near the bumpstop (say over 10mm off) and you have confirmed your upwards/downwards travel ratio is good then good chance that the coil is possibly overrated for your setup.

Hope this gives you a start to working out if its setup right.
Cheers, Darrie

[soulja-on]

Darrie, TOP MAN!!! for lending some helpful checks

I will check everything you have mentioned and try get some specs on the coils and struts.
On the vigo KUN26R model hilux i am only aware of the one bumpstop which limits upwards travel, but i will definitely check.
If I only have the upwards travel bumpstop how would i go about measuring the ratio against the downward travel. This is the stuff I am really trying to work out and measure. Im worried that I have next to no upward travel(wheel towards the guard) Your right mate i jacked from the chassis to check strut extension/droop. I put axle stands under the chassis with the front of the vehicle still in the air and struts at full droop. I then tried to jack under the control arm to see if i could get compression of the strut and I thought the whole strut and LCA would move upwards to a certain point near the bump stops (not sure how much it should or would) but it really only moved a little before the whole vehicle corner on that side started to lift. Does this mean I have next to no upward travel or does it mean that i need more weight or sudden impact to gain upwards travel as the vehicle weight is not enough to counter the coil spring pre load or maybe the coils are binding I didn't check this but I'm sure they weren't. Not sure if this is a test but i also pushed on the corner of the vehicle with wheels on the ground and it does move down and bounce up but maybe it thats all it has.
I will certainly drive into a decent hill to see how it goes once i get home from work on wednesday.

Again Darrie I really appreciate the help and I will see how it turns out. I just wanted to see if there was any tests I could do without driving into the suspension place and paying them to check it out.
Cheers

[Darrie]

Ok Soulja-on, my mate pulled in with his Hilux and I had a chance to look at it since I last looked under it when I bought the bilsteins for him. Yep, one bumpstop for upward travel that hits the lower arm, and the coilover/strut assembly limits extension (along with control arm rubbers and ball joint assemblies). So based on the fact that the bilstein strut assembly you bought is for your model hilux, lets presume all fine for shock travel specs. I did glance at the Kings springs specs on that coil you mentioned - it is for a hilux so in theory you should have no issues, however they appear to be listed as Heavy Duty ? The dab of grease on the bumpstop and a bit of firm offroad action will tell you if the coil is too hard for your application. My concern would be that these may have too heavy a rating if you are not running additional weight up front like a steel bullbar & winch. If over rated you will find the suspension harsh, and it will rarely touch the bumpstops – really you are just then robbing yourself of valuable suspension travel. Ideally if you are not heavily accessory laden up front look for a kings coil replacement to just above standard – generally they will be about 10% firmer than stock and better steel so less sag over time.

One thing I have to mention is to get your head around how the OEM CA's work and that the rubber bushing in them has been set right when the coilover was installed or height setting was changed. It’s real important that whoever fitted the strut or made changes to the height setting had a good knowledge of the control arm bushes that you have. Unlike poly bushings where the centre pin turns in the bush, the OEM rubber bushings are bonded into the control arm, as is the centre pin bonded into the bush also. As the CA moves the rubber flexes as the centre pin twists the rubber, and the rubber bush acts like suspension and allows a limited range of flex up and down. Its absolutely vital that when you install a longer shock or change height settings if you have OEM bushes you must let the vehicle sit on the suspension and loosen off all the CA bolts that go through these centre bushes top and bottom, then rock the front up and down slightly to allow the metal bush pins to resettle in a neutral position so the rubber bushes are then not under any load with the weight of the vehicle sitting on them in normal stance. Then retightened in the standing position, this ensures the rubber bushes have the flex ability both up and down. You really should check these first, even if you loosen off one, rock and retighten all one at a time this will make sure you are not limiting travel in the first place and that the bushes will last.

Then real simple to check your ratio - start with vehicle in normal stance and measure distance between bumpstop and the seat where it normally touches the CA under full impact (call this say "C" for compression distance). Then jack from the chassis lifting the wheel and now remeasure same points. Call this new measurement "E" – that’s full extension distance. To get your Droop distance "E-C" - call this D for droop distance. So ratio is simply Droop Distance "D" to Compression distance - it will be something like 20mm to 40mm or 1:2 (one part down, 2 parts up). These measurements are just for ratio analysis - they are not true suspension compression, extension measurements that are normally taken from the shock mount points but it will tell you what ratio you are running and give you a heads up on whether the suspension is likely to top out or bottom out if the coil is the right weight for the static load of the vehicle. If your ratio ends up being say 10:40 ideally you either should lower the clip and sacrifice a little height to improve the ratio, so that the suspension is working in an acceptable range.

Sorry but hope all this ramble helps – at least it will give you a heads up on how your suspension is set up if you do end up taking it somewhere to get it looked at.
Cheers, Darrie

PS Steve's and my rig:

[TurtleHilux]

Ok Soulja-on, my mate pulled in with his Hilux and I had a chance to look at it since I last looked under it when I bought the bilsteins for him. Yep, one bumpstop for upward travel that hits the lower arm, and the coilover/strut assembly limits extension (along with control arm rubbers and ball joint assemblies). So based on the fact that the bilstein strut assembly you bought is for your model hilux, lets presume all fine for shock travel specs. I did glance at the Kings springs specs on that coil you mentioned - it is for a hilux so in theory you should have no issues, however they appear to be listed as Heavy Duty ? The dab of grease on the bumpstop and a bit of firm offroad action will tell you if the coil is too hard for your application. My concern would be that these may have too heavy a rating if you are not running additional weight up front like a steel bullbar & winch. If over rated you will find the suspension harsh, and it will rarely touch the bumpstops – really you are just then robbing yourself of valuable suspension travel. Ideally if you are not heavily accessory laden up front look for a kings coil replacement to just above standard – generally they will be about 10% firmer than stock and better steel so less sag over time.

One thing I have to mention is to get your head around how the OEM CA's work and that the rubber bushing in them has been set right when the coilover was installed or height setting was changed. It’s real important that whoever fitted the strut or made changes to the height setting had a good knowledge of the control arm bushes that you have. Unlike poly bushings where the centre pin turns in the bush, the OEM rubber bushings are bonded into the control arm, as is the centre pin bonded into the bush also. As the CA moves the rubber flexes as the centre pin twists the rubber, and the rubber bush acts like suspension and allows a limited range of flex up and down. Its absolutely vital that when you install a longer shock or change height settings if you have OEM bushes you must let the vehicle sit on the suspension and loosen off all the CA bolts that go through these centre bushes top and bottom, then rock the front up and down slightly to allow the metal bush pins to resettle in a neutral position so the rubber bushes are then not under any load with the weight of the vehicle sitting on them in normal stance. Then retightened in the standing position, this ensures the rubber bushes have the flex ability both up and down. You really should check these first, even if you loosen off one, rock and retighten all one at a time this will make sure you are not limiting travel in the first place and that the bushes will last.

Then real simple to check your ratio - start with vehicle in normal stance and measure distance between bumpstop and the seat where it normally touches the CA under full impact (call this say "C" for compression distance). Then jack from the chassis lifting the wheel and now remeasure same points. Call this new measurement "E" – that’s full extension distance. To get your Droop distance "E-C" - call this D for droop distance. So ratio is simply Droop Distance "D" to Compression distance - it will be something like 20mm to 40mm or 1:2 (one part down, 2 parts up). These measurements are just for ratio analysis - they are not true suspension compression, extension measurements that are normally taken from the shock mount points but it will tell you what ratio you are running and give you a heads up on whether the suspension is likely to top out or bottom out if the coil is the right weight for the static load of the vehicle. If your ratio ends up being say 10:40 ideally you either should lower the clip and sacrifice a little height to improve the ratio, so that the suspension is working in an acceptable range.

Sorry but hope all this ramble helps – at least it will give you a heads up on how your suspension is set up if you do end up taking it somewhere to get it looked at.
Cheers, Darrie

Helluva lot of knowledge right there. I'm saving that in my little black notebook mate cheers!

I'm looking at running bilstein adjustables with the king springs, still undecided as to whether HD Or HDD at this stage. Ill be running a winch/buds custom plate bar/dual batters and a set of custom made heavy duty bash plates.. I'm not sure if the HD is up for it in the long run (eg. Sagging)
Has anyone run with HDD with similar accessories? I'm not fussed if the ride is a little harsh, as long as it isn't detrimental to my suspension travel/premature wearing of components. I'm hoping I could run the HDD on the lowest cir-clip position to gain approximately 2" lift and keep the ride smooth(ish).

Hopefully placing an order soon.. got my 285/70/17 muddies sitting in the shed crying out for me!

[soulja-on]

Your the ''MAN" Darrie!!

Thank you so much for your time and efforts in explaining this to me hugely appreciate it mate.
I found this thread from another site which was rather useful and may assist people with specifications.
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.ph ... n-Database

So from that site i found that my Bilstein 5100 ride height adjustables have 573mm extended and 140mm of travel with 433mm compression (Part No 24-186711)
As you have eluded to Darrie my coil is a raised king coil of light application. I originally had the strut on the lowest setting with the king coil and i gained approx 25mm lift. This is why i moved the circlip to the 3rd position which gave me a near even stance and 55mm lift against the rear lift. It also allowed me to fit 32x11.5xR15 Hankook RT03 muddies on. I did notice the change in firmness during driving from moving the circlip up 2 positions.
I will certainly loosen the CA bolts and allow the bushes to adjust position. I had no idea to do that. I installed my struts myself. I have a local shop that is kind enough to allow me to use his spring press. Had no problems installing as i had done it many times before.
After installation of the struts my UCA is certainly under tension being pulled down further. Running the 32'' muddies also has a little rubbing on full lock. Plan is to purchase some 30mm extended UCA ball joints from Matt at Monster Rides which will hopefully ease the stress on the UCA and assist the clearance between tires.

Darrie mate its certainly not a ramble and I'm extremely happy to have your assistance. I get home tomorrow and plan to do all the measurements and checks before anzac day. It all makes sense and i will post up my findings.

Thanks Darrie

[Steve75]

My hilux is a 2009 KUN26
I just went B6 offroad bilstein shocks
KTFR-101 king springs
200kg EFS leafs
I managed to get an extra 70mm extra clearance underneath lowest part of vehicle
It handles well around corners,I'm happy with the lift.....but every bump on the road is felt, I hate it.....would prefer original suspension back in
Ride is rigid and stiff.....not smooth and certainly doesn't soak any bumps
I have lowered my tyre pressures to 30psi to make it more comfortable..... I have been running 38 previously and ride was good with original set up

Clip is in the second groove from bottom of shock.... can only see one groove on bottom of shock

I'm running with a Toyota factory steel bar with dual batteries up front and no other bar work on rear

Any ideas why my vehicle now is so terrible?

[nickoslux]

I put bilsteins all round, kings 101s at front and 0-200kg leaves on back, I have been whining about it so much I think my wife will divorce me soon. It totally ruined the ride, the worst suspension combo you could imagine, if you are driving on smooth hotmix city roads they are brilliant but where I live the roads are awful. Mind you I think it is finally starting to soften up after about 5000 kms, as I said in another post the bilsteins are a sports shock, (developed on the Nurburgring) if you are after a comfort ride dont buy them, they just seem to overwhelm the spring. My setup was sold to me as a "Smart comfort suspension" system

[soulja-on]

I put bilsteins all round, kings 101s at front and 0-200kg leaves on back, I have been whining about it so much I think my wife will divorce me soon. It totally ruined the ride, the worst suspension combo you could imagine, if you are driving on smooth hotmix city roads they are brilliant but where I live the roads are awful. Mind you I think it is finally starting to soften up after about 5000 kms, as I said in another post the bilsteins are a sports shock, (developed on the Nurburgring) if you are after a comfort ride dont buy them, they just seem to overwhelm the spring. My setup was sold to me as a "Smart comfort suspension" system

Curious mate what bilstein struts are you running with the kings ktfr-101's and are yours adjustable? What circlip setting. I also have the same rated leaves in the rear from TD. Interested to see if you have the 5100 ride height adjustables as well. For me I like the firm ride compared to the loping OEM suspension setup, BUT i too have the cook not very happy when we hit the tracks for anything longer than a couple hours
Im guessing your going to stick with it now that you've paid the $$$. Sorry to hear its not what you had planned for, have you been into see the people that installed/ sold it to you, maybe they could swap out at discounted price. Although 5000km down the track might be a ask

[soulja-on]

don't know how to delete this post sorry

[nickoslux]

They are listed as bd5e564. I did complain, but they were not interested. Also had a driveline vibration and they couldn't fix that, I ended up doing some research and bought some wedges to angle the back axle and that cured that issue. What really burrs me is these idiots are still quoting this on their website as a comfort setup. There seems to be quite a few self proclaimed experts in the suspension business. From what I have read I think I should have gone with the Ultimate kit.

[nickoslux]

Correction BE5D563 and I would have to check the groove position

[rory18]

Nickoslux, I have similar setup to you, but using ultimates 0-200kg rear springs and factory front springs on the highest groove for now, after I had a read of what you posted I took my ute for a 50km drive across some heavily corrugated roads and found the ride to be quite acceptable and forgiving, much nicer than the stock suspension by far.. Your issue may have to do some with the front coils you are using as they are a heavier unit than the standard coils?

[nickoslux]

Fronts are 101h which I think are the lightest they do except for the tapered coils

[Nwfisho]

Hi guys, I have a 2008 dual cab with steel arb bar, dual batteries, canopy and draws. Just ordered bilsteins all round with the 101h king springs up front and 300kg EFS leaves on the rear. Hoping it looks the goods and rides a little better. Just have 31x10.5 bf Goodrich fitted to sr5 alloys. Should I have gone lighter load rear springs? I take a ute load of crap and a fridge and 2 jerry cans when I head off road and sometimes tow a 4.2m tinny. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Cheers

[ultrav]

Hi Everyone

I have a MY10 Sr5 D4D lux Dual Cab, my experience with having an aftermarket suspension kit fitted was a shocker...after at least 7 return visits to the suspension shop the vehicle STILL doesn't ride all that great. (I stopped counting at 7 )

Initially the problem was low speed tail shaft vibrations under load, this improved after several return visits however problems then started with tyres feathering,

The shop did not try to avoid the issue and seemed to do their best to try and resolve the issues, unfortunately for me I was left with a vehicle which was never the same after the new suspension was fitted, so much so that I am now stepping into a new vehicle and saying good bye to this bad experience.

It goes without saying that I am now a little gun shy when it comes to suspensions and having an aftermarket suspension fitted.... I would like to think that my unfortunate experience was a one off and if I was to go down this path again I wouldn't (cross fingers) strike the issues again!!

If I was to consider a new suspension on my new vehicle I would follow what seems to the forum trend and go Billies, Kings and EFS rears.

Has anyone had issues such as camber angles and tail shaft vibrations with the Billie/kings/EFS combo?

[nickoslux]

I had bad driveline vibration when slowing down through the gears. Drove me mad, the mob I bought it from put spacers under the centre bearing which did nothing at all. Finally tried a 3degree wedge in the spring pack. And that fixed it. Bilstein shocks and climax springs

[chasem]

Hi guys, thinking of getting a 2in bilstein lift with king springs. Are adjustable upper control arms recommended or can you get away with the stock ones? do people normally run the adjustable UCAs for alignment purposes or clearance? i have the stock rims with 275/65/17 tyres