MR reckon -v- ultimate suspension -v- bilstein -v- dobinsons

[nivloc89]

Hi guys I have read through not of this suspension thread and learnt a lot but still chasing a direct comparison from what seems to be the top suspension. I am currently looking at upgrading and thought I would come to the bible of Hilux and get a direct comparison from a bunch of you guys.

I am currently running 41mm tough dog foam cell suspension with 25mm strut spacers. I also run monster ride diff drop and super pro UCA. I'm running 33" trail grapplers on 18" fuel rims. When I originally run the tough dog lift I was extremely happy with the comfort and smoothnes of the ride. When I went bigger rubber and added the spacers and UCA the comfort went out the window and now the suspension is as hard as a rock and extremely uncomfortable. I'm somewhat happy with the height but I'm looking at changing the suspension as the comfort and smoothness is unbearable. I didn't think the spacers would make any different to the ride quality but I can't think of what else it would be. (Any thoughts on what else it could be would be appreciated)

I'm quite interested in upgrading to one of the adjustable height set ups as they seem to be quite popular these days. I'm mainly interested an about a 3.5" to 4" lift(similar to what I'm running now). I don't do any extreme 4x4 but mainly light dirt tracks and beach tracks when I go camping. I just really want a better ride and more comfort as I feel every bump and divot in the road at the moment.

I'm deciding between the below options.

Monster rides - reckon adjustable height with dobinsons leafs.
Ultimate suspension
Bilstein height adjustable.
Dobinsons MRR adjustable height.

The dobinsons kit are the only ones running the seperate remote reservior. Is there any advantage to this??
The ultimate suspension also offer a lower control arm drop cross member. What advantage does the dropped cross member offer?

Any opinions or help would be much appreciated. Like I said I'm mainly looking for a better quality ride and comfort.
Cheers for any help.

[Torsion]

My thoughts,
Australian designed, Australian made and Australian owned, arguably one of the best kits available.
http://www.dmshocks.com/home_4.htm
https://www.facebook.com/DrummondMotorsport/


Rekon /Matrix is a copy of DMS. Rekon/Matrix made in taiwan, components are not in the same league as DMS gear and more expensive than DMS...... Go Figure?

Dobinsons decent gear for Taiwan made, they have great quality control methods in place, not a bad choice.

Bilstein always top shelf.

Have fun choosing mate, 3 good choices above.

[gorilla5150]

Have you thought about ICON Vehicle Dynamics suspension? You'll get 3 - 4 inch lift with the comfortable soft ride your after.

[taresk]

The advantage of remote reservoir is that it can expel the heat faster with the larger oil volume, some also come with valve control like Matrix and Icon CDC, similar deal to Rancho and Tough Dog adjustables. Their only real downside is that if they're installed in a bad position the connecting hose can be vulnerable to damage.

The advantage of the dropped crossmember setup is that all factory angles for CV's, control arms, etc are maintained, and in Ultimate's case you get reinforcement for the spindle. No big downsides, just more frontal area (worse aerodynamics), more weight (although most of it is sprung weight), and you can get vibration from the short front driveshaft if it isn't setup properly. This will give you the closest ride to factory though.

IMO Tough Dog are complete crap, and any of these options (Including IVD as suggested by Gorilla5150) will be a big improvement in ride and comfort.

[nivloc89]

Thanks for the reply guys. This has opened up a few more doors and options that I didn't know about. Both the DMS and IVD suspension look like good bits of gear. Both however only give a 0-3" lift. Where the reckon gives a 2-6" lift and apparently doesn't limit wheel travel. I know they recommend between 3-4.5" as the ideal lift on the reckon but I'm just curious on why both DMS and IVD only offer up to 3" adjustment.

In saying that the dobinson MRR height adjustable only adjust up to 3" and same for the bilstein they mainly rate them to 3". I'm just curious on why everything seems to be rated to 3" max and the rekon seem to claim up to 6". Or is this not the case?

Torsion I know you said dobinson are ok and bilstein are top shelf but in your opinion will they provide a comfortable ride on road. As the dobinson seem a fair bit cheaper than the rest. Or oh the extra and go the DMS over these two??

Tarsek I can't agree with you more. Tough dog has been a complete disappointment and I will not be recommending them to anyone. Just don't want to make this mistake again so I'm concerned with the dobinson MRR as they are cheaper than the other options but I don't want to have to replace them again in 18 months time. However they do offer adjustable height and a remote resivior. So I am interested in their performance.

[Rocket55]

3" lift seems to be the sweet spot with most due to loss of down travel. The geometry of the suspension can only travel down a certain amount and the more you use this up by lifting it the less you have remaining to go back down. Sure you can wind you the Rekon gear to 6" lift, but expect it to be more like a go-kart than a 4wd. You'll be lifting front wheels even more than you do now. Another way to look at it is, the front strut or shock can only travel so far before it bottoms out in either direction, this is it's range of movement (let's say this is 10" for arguments sake). If you set the ride height to be in the middle of this range then the shock can move up and down equal amounts (5' up and 5" down). If you lift the car 3" then you move your ride height towards the bottom of the shock, and your down movement is reduced ie: 2" down and 8" up (ignoring mechanical ratios for now). So yes travel is not limited, the shock will still travel 10" top to bottom, only nearly all your wheel movement is up (compressing the spring) and not down. Question then becomes, will the spring allow 8" of up travel before it binds solid? Is your car heavy enough to compress the spring 8"? How is the offroad capability of the rig affected with minimal down travel and only up travel available?

I know the answer to the last one, that's for sure. That's a bit of a simplistic view but explains the principle of what's going on.

Then there's CV angles. Anything more than 3" (or 4" with a proper diff relocation ie 3" relative lift) is going to generate CV carnage once you start having a go.

Maintaining a good compliant ride with suspension that will travel and keep the wheels on the ground will far outweigh the advantages of the extra inch or two of lift. Unless of course you want to build a mall crawler. This image springs to mind



Comp trucks typically only run 4" of lift, but work very hard to generate wheel travel, as this is what gets you places. Oh and lockers

[nivloc89]

3" lift seems to be the sweet spot with most due to loss of down travel. The geometry of the suspension can only travel down a certain amount and the more you use this up by lifting it the less you have remaining to go back down. Sure you can wind you the Rekon gear to 6" lift, but expect it to be more like a go-kart than a 4wd. You'll be lifting front wheels even more than you do now. Another way to look at it is, the front strut or shock can only travel so far before it bottoms out in either direction, this is it's range of movement (let's say this is 10" for arguments sake). If you set the ride height to be in the middle of this range then the shock can move up and down equal amounts (5' up and 5" down). If you lift the car 3" then you move your ride height towards the bottom of the shock, and your down movement is reduced ie: 2" down and 8" up (ignoring mechanical ratios for now). So yes travel is not limited, the shock will still travel 10" top to bottom, only nearly all your wheel movement is up (compressing the spring) and not down. Question then becomes, will the spring allow 8" of up travel before it binds solid? Is your car heavy enough to compress the spring 8"? How is the offroad capability of the rig affected with minimal down travel and only up travel available?

I know the answer to the last one, that's for sure. That's a bit of a simplistic view but explains the principle of what's going on.

Then there's CV angles. Anything more than 3" (or 4" with a proper diff relocation ie 3" relative lift) is going to generate CV carnage once you start having a go.

Maintaining a good compliant ride with suspension that will travel and keep the wheels on the ground will far outweigh the advantages of the extra inch or two of lift. Unless of course you want to build a mall crawler. This image springs to mind



Comp trucks typically only run 4" of lift, but work very hard to generate wheel travel, as this is what gets you places. Oh and lockers

Thanks rocket55. That does explain it much easier. So when MR say rekon still maintain full travel even when wound up to 4.5" it's not necessarily down travel. It would be more up travel as they have already lost 4.5" in down travel by winding the suspension up to achieve the lift??

Is there any advantage to why the MR rekon add a sway bar relocator?? I understand that it is to achieve putting the sway bar somewhat back to its original position but what difference does that make?? Will this increase the ride quality. As that is what I'm looking for the most. A comfortable soft ride.

[Rocket55]

The sway bar relocation bracket stops the sway bar hitting things if I remember right, some need it some don't. Doesn't effect the ride as far as I know.

[Quinny34]

Pedders for the Win.....

[PLN]

Pedders are Shite, im replacing mine at 25000kms