Maximum LEGAL SR tyre and wheel sizes NSW

[Hilux Boy]

I just went through this exercise, and ended up with the Department of Transport WA. Neither the ROH sales people nor any of the tyre dealers have any idea what is legal or not. The only response I got was "but we fit these to a lot of vehicles". If I was a risk taker I would fit the illegal wheels they keep recommending, and sue them when my insurance claim is denied. I know a lot of people do not care about keeping it legal, but I have made the decision to do this truck by the book. If I am desperate for bigger wheels and a lift later I will have to work out how to get it approved in WA, does not appear to be as common as in some other states (but I may be wrong).

Anyway, my research concluded that if you are unlucky enough to have a SR, you cannot fit wheels with a +30 offset. The standard SR has an offset of +45, and changing them to +30 is an increase in wheel track of 30mm, which exceeds the limit of 25mm.

I did try all the SR5 arguments with the DOT, but they work off the standard wheel track specified by the manufacturer, which he had in a book in front of him The SR has a standard wheel track of 1510, and the SR5 is 1540, and that is what they use to calculate the increase of 25mm.

I ended up ordering 215/85/16 tyres (31") on the standard 6" rims for now. So, not what I really wanted (245/75/16 on 7" rims), but will do the trick for now.

[wat700]

So is the engineering certificate a once off expense or do you have to get it renewed every 12mths?

Before I read this thread in great detail I thought I was ok but now I'm not so sure!

[ultimate]

The engineer's certificate is a once of payment unless something is modified afterwards. e.g. if you get the certificate based on 32" tyres and than throw 33's on next tyre change it won't be covered any more.

[Viper82]

I don't know if the police use the Hilux in NSW but here in SA they do and they put on sunnies to the SR model and I am pretty sure they are 30p offset 16x7. So how is it that they can put on rims which go over the legal track width and we can't?

[MADDOG]

same reason they can go flat out without their lights or siren. They are the FUZZ and you aint!

[doubleshot]

little question, i bought my sr brand new from a dealer with sr5 rims on it, THEY put 17 inch prado alloys on the sr5 and the sr5 rims on my sr whos responsible now

[olcoolone]

I think people get carried away to much with the tyre and rim legality debate.

If your sensible you should not have a problem.

End of the day if you had an accident they can not refuse payment (they like to think they can) if the tyres and rims had noncontributing factor in the accident.

Your parked on the side of the road in your Hilux with big tyres and rims and somebody hits you from behind........can't see an insurance company declining the claim because you had illegal tyres and rims.

An insurance company could say the same thing about M/T tyres being fitted over the A/T or H/T factory tyres sighting stopping distance and traction.

There are so many other things on 4x4's that are very illegal but people don't care about.

Everyone has mentioned about tyre size and rim size but what about weight carrying ratings.

Or better still fitting 20 inch rims with low profile tyres to a Hilux 4x4, not only are these tyres and rims to big but they full well short of the load carrying index.

Some of the other things they may decline an insurance policy claim on.....
1) GPS obstructing vision.
2) Weight of vehicle.
3) Power chips.
4) Modified exhaust systems.
5) Window tint.
6) Bull bar. (you have increased then length of the vehicle over factory specs.)
7) In dash monitors for DVD, movies, mapping.
8) Driving lights fitted that don't complie to DOT standards.
9) Reversing light to powerful.

Again I think some people are reading into it to much.

[ultimate]

This is true. But only to the extent of the accident. For instant if somebody runs up the back of you or vice versa. Generally it won't matter. But if you’re driving through a residential area and a kid runs out in front of you and you kill them, it's a different story. The police call in an engineer and together they go all over your car with a measuring tape and assess it based on the ADRs and what you have had engineered (where required). If you do have a vehicle that isn't engineered but has been lifted over 2", or running larger tyres than allowed, the police investigation squad can say that this extra height was a contributing factor to the accident as it prevented you from seeing the child and reacting quick enough. If this happens your insurance and registration can be void, leaving you to pick up the bill. Worst case scenario I know but anything can happen. This is why we won't allow a 4" lift to be fitted to a vehicle unless they are going to get an engineer's certificate.

That's a post I made on the first page and I think it's still very relevant. With the increasing pressure coming down on 4WDS owners and especially on the tyre and suspension modifications, I think an engineer's certificate is a small price to pay for peace of mind. You can still have the larger tyres, just do it legally. I know your right with the list of illegal mods people have, but that doesn't really stand up in court if something does go wrong. Even for me it seems like everything 2nd 4wd I see has extended shackles on which are completely illegal in NSW. They obviously don't care or don't know which is bad because it's an obvious defect which can really bring them unstuck further down the track. I personally don't see the point in spending a lot of money on a vehicle to have it defected. All of our vehicles are heavily modified but completely road legal and safe as we took all the necessary steps to do it right.

For the record; any insurance company can refuse payment on a claim if the vehicle is illegally modified. You can list the modifications with them and pay the extra premium, but it’s still your responsibility to engineer it. People die in serious accidents all the time and it’s something you just can’t predict. I think at nearly half the price of insurance cover anyway, an engineer’s certificate is a must for any responsible driver who owns a modified 4WD.

[olcoolone]

My whole point is as you said it seems like every second 4X4 is illegal and I would say this is closer to the point.

This tyre and rim debate can go on for ever with no real resolution.

Yes the right way in an ideal world would be to get it re-engineered but the likelyhood of it happening is very slim.

With most 4x4's tyres and rims would be my least concern.

Again everyone is hell bent on tyre and rim size but they forget the most important thing...load index.

Seriously I think you would be hard pressed to find a Hilux on this forum except your that is 100% legal or non defectable.

70% of vehicles that come through our workshop has some sort of serious safety issue but is still doesn't make them fix it.

[ultimate]

Yeah I know your right and it is a pretty bad mind set a lot of people are in. Money matters more than safety in a lot of cases. The main thing I find though is the fact that a lot of people simply aren't aware that their vehicle has defects. This is basically the result of the heavy advertising some companies have behind products which fall outside the ADR guidelines. How often have you ever seen a company advertise "engineer's certificate required" for a 4" Nissan patrol Lift? I never have and that's the problem. It's the same with tyres; basically no tyre shop has ever told anybody about the 15mm legal increase to diameter, and that's why so many 4WDs are running illegal set ups. However i do often find that at least 1 in 5 people I speak with about the defects on their vehicle, will actually do something about it....and to me, that makes it worth it.

[olcoolone]

Agree, about these 4 to 6 inch lifts what happens about the headlights.....I thought there is something in the ADR's regarding maximum hight of the center of the headlights.

I,m with you about doing it right the first time, do you have any costing to do with engineering an everyday vehicle for compliance.

Seeing that a large number of 4x4's are used for work related activities it is even more important to be ADR compliant, if you do have an accident and a worker gets hurt not only do you have to deal with insurance company's but also the state work cover body that in most cases will lead to prosecution and conviction.

The big issue lies with resellers of products who's only have concerns are based on how much money they make and will they meet budget this week.

Resellers have to stop thinking about the bottom line and think about the customer and their reputation of providing a legal solution to the customers problem.

At the end of the day the reseller can be just a liable for prosecution as the customer and the customer relies on the reseller to give unbiased correct advise.

Manufactures and distributors of products have to make their resellers aware of the implications.

If I had my way I would put a stop to people who are not suitably qualified, trained or have knowledge carrying out work on vehicles of their own or customers.....You see it on forums where a person is putting a post on asking "how do I change my brake pads or how do I replace wheel bearing".

Maybe we will start to see a stop put on posts with information relating to DIY vehicle repairs.

Any way I think it is getting off topic.

[jiggins]

This may be a little of the topic but I still find it relevant to this post.

If I'm to get a set of 32" play muddies for the lux get them engineered with a 2" lift but run a set of 30" or 31" A/T for everyday driving is it still covered or not.

I feel it should be covered as the size is smaller.


cheers,

Jiggins

[amitch888]

Im not positive as I only really know as much about this as what I have read here, but for anyone such as "doubleshot" who has questioned if sr5 rims are legal on an sr model, if the wheel track is measured from the centre of the rim/tyre (correct me if im wrong), the sr5 rim been an inch or roughly 25mm wider then the sr rim, this should only mean it brings the wheel track out half that amount 12.5mm, taking into account the offsets of the two rims, sr5 30+ and sr 45+(again correct me if im wrong) which places the inner side of the rim in the same place roughly and pushing the outter side out further? but only pushing the centre of the rim out half that amount? so overall wheel track for the sr5 rim would only be increased by 25mm (12.5mm from each side). Which I think is 25mm maximum increase in wheel track, and its less then the 26mm in rim width maximum increase.

On my SR im currently running 31x10.5x15 cooper mud tyres on a zero offset, as much as i love the extra wheel track width, obviously far off being legal before reading this thread i thought as long as the outside of the wheel/tyre was inside the guards/ flares it was legal.......after reading all this info its makes me question if i should fix the issue? put the right offset on to suit the wheel track maximum and get it engineered to suit the height of the tyres and and lift once its installed

[wat700]

Hmm good question. Maybe one of the gurus can answer this?

According to the Toyota Hilux Spec sheet, the SR track is 1510mm front and rear and the SR5 is 1540mm front and rear - ie a difference of 30mm.

This would be over the 26mm limit imposed by NSW and hence you couldn't run SR5 rims legally on an SR?

Thoughts?

[amitch888]

thats something i hadnt looked at, hilux spec sheets. really is stupid that a few mm here and there matter when the sr and sr5 basically the same ute. seems size does matter lol

Im interested to know if anyone knows the answer to "jiggins" question, can you be engineered for 32 or 33's and still run 30 or 31's legally?

[hiluxMick]

Guys, great thread - I read through all this and although interesting, I couldn't find the answer to my question - "what tyres/rims can I put on?

My tyres are getting pretty low - so time for replacement. I wan't to keep it legal, I don't want to pay an engineer, but I want some tyres with grip and a bit of extra clearance would be nice. So I was thinking a set of 16" rims and maybe up to 31" all terrain tyres (say Cooper ST 265/70R16 just for argument's sake).

My central pillar placcard is probably just like yours and specifies 255/70R15C tyres and 15x7 rims. It doesn't specify an outside diameter, but a standard tyre calculator will say that a tyre of this spec will have and OD of 738mm. My 2009 SR5 'lux came with 15" SR5 allow rims and 255/70R15 dueller 840 tyres - which have a nominal OD of 739mm.

I gather from this thread that the max increase in the diameter in NSW is 15mm. So unless I'm missing something, the max tyre diameter that you can fit to a late model hilux is 754mm (that's less than 30" and way less than the Cooper's listed above at 778mm).

Is this right? If so, there doesn't seem to be too many choices out there for us if we want to keep it legal? No 8" rims, no 31" tyres, etc. etc. Are there just lots of illegal hiluxes running around on our roads?

I hope I'm wrong - set me straight

Cheers

- Mick

[franz]

Guys, great thread - I read through all this and although interesting, I couldn't find the answer to my question - "what tyres/rims can I put on?

My tyres are getting pretty low - so time for replacement. I wan't to keep it legal, I don't want to pay an engineer, but I want some tyres with grip and a bit of extra clearance would be nice. So I was thinking a set of 16" rims and maybe up to 31" all terrain tyres (say Cooper ST 265/70R16 just for argument's sake).

My central pillar placcard is probably just like yours and specifies 255/70R15C tyres and 15x7 rims. It doesn't specify an outside diameter, but a standard tyre calculator will say that a tyre of this spec will have and OD of 738mm. My 2009 SR5 'lux came with 15" SR5 allow rims and 255/70R15 dueller 840 tyres - which have a nominal OD of 739mm.

I gather from this thread that the max increase in the diameter in NSW is 15mm. So unless I'm missing something, the max tyre diameter that you can fit to a late model hilux is 754mm (that's less than 30" and way less than the Cooper's listed above at 778mm). And only 15x7 rims are allowable.

Is this right? If so, there doesn't seem to be too many choices out there for us if we want to keep it legal? No 8" rims, no 31" tyres, etc. etc. Are there just lots of illegal hiluxes running around on our roads?

I hope I'm wrong - set me straight

Cheers

- Mick

Mate I'm hearing ya, I went through the same issues and decided to go 16" rims with 265/70R16 Goodrich All Terrains as thats what I ordered for the new Camper Trailer and it gives me 2 spare tyres with the same rim and OD which I think is 778 which technically is illegal but I'm only going to use these when I use the CT and I'm going to put legal tyres on my 15" Rims when driving around town & just swap every time I need to, & that way I can also rotate them everytime also giving me maximum wear. I know it's an expensive option but I think it's the best option for my uses. If you want to stay legal with 16" rims using all terrains you need to go 245/70R16 & probably similar for other brands.
other reasons for changing to 16" Rims for me is that it's alot easier to find replacement tyres at 16" than 15" in rural & remote areas & I've never heard of anyone who got knocked back by their Insurance coz they had Oversize tyres which doesn't mean it hasn't happened but I'm prepared to take that risk, also I put a 2" suspension lift on my Lux and with legal tyres on it looks like a freakin toy
To answer your last question, Yes there are alot of illegal tyres on Hiluxes out there including mine but thats a choice for you the owner so continue to gather as much info as you can and that should give you confidance to make that decision, I researched for weeks till I decided what I was going to do.

Check out these links & click on the links to get to the type of tyre you are looking for & it will give you all the dimensions & specks for individual tyres & take note I think the minimum load legally allowed on the hiluxes with 15" rims is 109

http://www.coopertires.com.au/index.php?page=tyres

http://www.jaxquickfit.com.au/tyres/brands

Unfortunately the more you look the more you realise that your choices are quite limited if you want to keep it legal and have a quality tyre

Cheers & good Luck

[hiluxMick]

Franz, thanks - I guess I wasn't missing anything after all. I was thinking the same thing about the 16" rims.

You're not wrong when you say the legal tyre options are limited - seems an incredible situation given the popularity of this hilux model. What was Toyota thinking!

Cheers

- Mick

[john253a]

i was at my local 4x4 repair last month and inquired about engineered lift kits, as i want to run 35".
I was told no hope. He then told me there are new laws in vic. this year relating to lift and tyres.
Yes 50mm lift is legal and yes 15mm increase in tyres is legal, but there is a total limit of 2" overall outside of that engineers is required.
I also found in the vicroads modifications guide that there is a max of 25mm rim width of increase/decrease that 'vehicle manufacturer for that model or vehicle series' max of 25mm track increase/decrease that 'vehicle manufacturer for that model or vehicle series' and 15mm on rim/tyre size overall, so as 15" came out on sr5 16" are now illegal under new rules if going off model and 18"if by series (trd has 17").
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonl ... 0/VSI8.pdf

just another thing to look at for people who want to stay legal with no engineers.

[mrpatchman]

..But off the top of my head I believe the legal offset when running larger tyres on an SR is +18-22.

Correct... Standard Offset is +30, so a +18 will give (30-18=)12*2=24mm, which is just under an inch.