Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

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Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby RonBacardi8 on Thu, 06 Oct 2011 8:18 +0000

Hi all,

Been reading bucket loads on fitting 33's and it sounds like there is a lot of cost and cutting to do from my current setup (current setup is 2inch lift SR5 rims)
I all ready have a front locker fitted to my stock hilux diff (which is 3.5 ratio) & currently running 31'.
I'm about to order 4.56 ratios from the US as I'm not happy with the current revs/power ( in 4th gear down the highway I'm getting 2600rpm at 105kph). I under stand with 4.56 ratio I will be doing a massive jump so I know that I will need to change my tyre size but it's my only choice due to standard hilux diff and already installed locker unless I want to waste my 4week old locker and fork out for a new one and a prado diff.
So does anyone else run 4.56 ratios with 32's how are your revs in 4th gear at 105kph and in 5th going 120kph?
CAN ANYONE THINK OF A REASON WHY AND WHY NOT TO RUN 32's WITH A RATIO OF 4.56?????
Should I really be considering putting 33's on instead to lower the revs?
I'm happy to spend money on new rims, tyres and the diff ratios from the US and would go a 50mm body lift but only if it makes the 33' fitting a breeze

Been thinking about this setup delema for 2 weeks now as some of you already know :? :?
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby Hilux Max on Thu, 06 Oct 2011 8:37 +0000

Your hilux will be launching like a top fueler and revving its tits off on the highway.

4.5's with your manual geabox would suit a 37" tyre

{29" factory diameter (divided by) 3.5:1 factory ratio} mulitplied by 4.56:1 = 36.9"

Wrong Move mate......you'll regret it unless you never drive over 60-70kph.

The chart below is a good guide/comparison but it considers stock is 3.7 to suit the auto....you can do the basic math to change the ratio to 3.5's for the manual -

Image

with 4.5's and 32's your revving at 3grand at 100kph in the auto....in your hilux it'd be revving just over 3,200rpm

Edit:

Your better off fitting a set of 3.7:1 and heres why....

(3.5:1 divided by 29" ) multiplied by 32" = 3.85

Dont forget the manual first gear is almost half as tall as the 1st gear in the auto's so you already have the benefit of better take offs.....

Id consider doing this...if you were going to go to 33's then 3.9's would be the go for you, but since your going to stick with 32's go a set of 3.7's and keep your current locker.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby RonBacardi8 on Thu, 06 Oct 2011 8:50 +0000

RonBacardi8 wrote:
J&L wrote:I run the 4.55 thick cut with the 121 ARB locker up front. A very tight fit but it works. For the 32" tyres (265x75x16) I run at 2850 rpm @100km/h (small variations as it depends on tyres and wear). The main advantage is even lower ratio than standard which save a clutch and I have torque for crawling at idle speed with 32".
The yoke stay standard up front as the splines of the pinion is the same but the rear needs a different yoke as it has less splines.
Johan


Is this 4th gear that's 2850 rpm or is it that in 5th gear?
Also what's your top speed in low range at 3000rpm?
I know there are preset tables/charts but I don't trust them as utes differ.


J&L wrote:5th gear . . . but that was for the 29" My mistake. I have to recheck for the 32" This makes it a bit lower RPM and shows I can go to 33" without loosing too much. I have to do a test for low gear as I have the 29" tyres on for city driving. I think around 50 but that's to be verified
Johan


Max the above is why I ask the question, JT diffs are telling me that if I run 4.56 ratio my revs would only change by 400-475 more with 32's and 300-375 rpm more with 33's calculated at 4th gear going 104kph. Currently they are 2600rpm at 104kph.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby scottsr20 on Thu, 06 Oct 2011 8:58 +0000

this might be a dumb question, but why do you want to drive down the highway in forth any way? According to mmaaxx's chart you would be doing 3200 in 5th ! In forth it would be on the limiter! do you think 2600 is too low? I run 33s and stock ratios with an auto and I'm doing 2000 rpm at 115 . Get a heavy duty cluch and get it chipped - you won't need to look at the tacho anymore.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby RonBacardi8 on Thu, 06 Oct 2011 9:02 +0000

So my guess is it will/should be running close to 3000 in 4th but in 5th about 2600-2700rpm in 5th gear. Sound right?
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby RonBacardi8 on Thu, 06 Oct 2011 9:08 +0000

scottsr20 wrote:this might be a dumb question, but why do you want to drive down the highway in forth any way? According to mmaaxx's chart you would be doing 3200 in 5th ! In forth it would be on the limiter! do you think 2600 is too low? I run 33s and stock ratios with an auto and I'm doing 2000 rpm at 115 . Get a heavy duty cluch and get it chipped - you won't need to look at the tacho anymore.


I think that chart is based on 4th as it will be calculating of 1:1 gear ratio (think 5th gear is 0.83:1, I have a heavy duty clutch already but I can't get the lux chipped because its a v6 petrol.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby Skog07 on Thu, 06 Oct 2011 9:54 +0000

Ron.
4.56 in a 4.0L petrol would probably work quite well with larger tyres.. 3000rpm in a diesel is not such a good thing but petrols can cope with it quite easily. You may notice a increase in fuel economy though. The diesels do have a fairly narrow band of usable power compared to the petrol models.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby RonBacardi8 on Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:09 +0000

Skog07 wrote:Ron.
4.56 in a 4.0L petrol would probably work quite well with larger tyres.. 3000rpm in a diesel is not such a good thing but petrols can cope with it quite easily. You may notice a increase in fuel economy though. The diesels do have a fairly narrow band of usable power compared to the petrol models.
Cheers
Skog


Do you consider 32's a large enough tyre. Does anyone know any other members have 4.56 ratios? Can only find J&L so far.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby Skog07 on Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:38 +0000

I run the MTZ's 265/75/16's which do seem to be the larger end of the 32'' tyre on a 30mm lift.. They fit quite comfortably, work reasonably well and this is on 3.5's manual 3.0L diesel. My hilux spends it life now as a daily driver on 29 rubber as it is a work ute, muddies get bolted on for 4wd trips.
I do like the 32's. They fit, they maintain the std wheel alignment and dont need to be pushed forward, cut guards etc etc and I can go back to 29's without any issue.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby danmcccc on Fri, 07 Oct 2011 4:20 +0000

scottsr20 wrote:this might be a dumb question, but why do you want to drive down the highway in forth any way? According to mmaaxx's chart you would be doing 3200 in 5th ! In forth it would be on the limiter! do you think 2600 is too low? I run 33s and stock ratios with an auto and I'm doing 2000 rpm at 115 . Get a heavy duty cluch and get it chipped - you won't need to look at the tacho anymore.

yer scotty his is petrol so it would behave a little differently...but even in a petrol those are fairly high rpms for highway speeds...fuel consumption would be throuh the roof!!!
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby Hilux Max on Fri, 07 Oct 2011 10:08 +0000

RonBacardi8 wrote:I think that chart is based on 4th as it will be calculating of 1:1 gear ratio (think 5th gear is 0.83:1, I have a heavy duty clutch already but I can't get the lux chipped because its a v6 petrol.



That chart is for a 4 speed D4D auto...4th gear is overdrive....3rd gear is 1:1

Skog07 wrote:The diesels do have a fairly narrow band of usable power compared to the petrol models.


You serious Mark?

1KD has a perfectly flat torque (343nM) curve between 1400rpm to 3200rpm.
(refer pdf file here - http://toyota.esealtd.com/toyota/hilux/ncf/pdf/m_eg_0148.pdf )

1GR M/T has (343nM) perfectly flat torque curve between 2400rpm to 4800rpm.
(refer pdf file here - http://toyota.esealtd.com/toyota/hilux/ncf/pdf/m_eg_0065.pdf )

Thats 2,000 rpm worth of maximum torque in the 1KD compared to 2,400rpm worth of max toque in the 1GR M/T model but the 1KD's torque begins 1000rpm lower....I beg to differ that the diesels is more usuable and is NOT narrow at all.

Ron,

To end this post, reffering to your OP, you have not mentioned anything at all about low range performance being required or a factor in your need to regear. Therefore I think the best advice given so far is that by Scottsr20.....

scottsr20 wrote:this might be a dumb question, but why do you want to drive down the highway in forth any way? According to mmaaxx's chart you would be doing 3200 in 5th ! In forth it would be on the limiter! do you think 2600 is too low? I run 33s and stock ratios with an auto and I'm doing 2000 rpm at 115 . Get a heavy duty cluch and get it chipped - you won't need to look at the tacho anymore.


Id also throw in the suggestion that you consider a Monster Rides exhaust system for the 1GR V6 to help her breath more and give you the performance you are after. Seems onroad performance is more of a concern, give the truck more balls and enjoy the economy benefit of lower revs. :ugeek:
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby J&L on Fri, 07 Oct 2011 12:46 +0000

Well, horses for courses is my reasoning. I want 32 to 33" tyres without sacrifising real 4x4 offroad. Toyota cannot regear the transfer low ratio when the going get's tough hence the diff ratio has to change. With the 32" (838mm) 265x75x16 BFG Muddies KM2 I selected 4.56 as they give a crawl of 2km/h in low range. Now if I climb say a 30 degree rocky ledge (Telecom hill @ Landcruizer park) and my vehicle weigh 3000kg I require at idle speed just over 120nm engine torque to climb it. The diesel can deliver it at idle no sweat!
Here a petrol will find it hard to match due to it's low torque at idle. My climbing speed is safe and controlled at 2km/h! At 10 or 15km/h it is not!
On the highway the rpm with the 32" at 100km/h is just on 2500rpm. Good enough for me again. Yes, maybe more fuel but it's a 4x4, lifted and reduced dynamics due to all the other frills! :D :D :D
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby J&L on Fri, 07 Oct 2011 12:52 +0000

My calculation is based on (Sin 30 x 0.838m x 0.5 x 3000kg x 9.81) / (4.556 x 2.556 x 4.313)
where Sin 30 is the angle to climb, 0.838 x 0.5 to get wheel radius, 3000kg = loaded vehicle mass, 9.81 to convert kg to Newton, 4.556 is diff ratio, 2.556 is low range, 4.313 is 1st gear) excluding gear and transmission losses which can be up to 25%!
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby danmcccc on Fri, 07 Oct 2011 1:12 +0000

that might be ideal for offroad but we drive our luxs offroad maybe 5% of the total time driving so gotta look at what you really need and what you would like to have for the odd occasion
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby VMN on Fri, 07 Oct 2011 2:53 +0000

You'd be far better off with 4.1's. Don't forget you need to get the rebuild kits and a different flange if you do order your 4.556 stuff.

The equivalent chart for your car to what Max has posted for the auto is on the VMN web site here
http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/hilux-150 ... drivedrain
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby J&L on Fri, 07 Oct 2011 3:21 +0000

Yes I agree. The reality is the price for the gearing was less than the price to have an exhaust and chip fitted for the larger tyres and I still retain best overall 4x4 functionality. The 200rpm the engine tics over faster at 100km/h is the least of my worries.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby VMN on Fri, 07 Oct 2011 3:37 +0000

the problem is that the Toyota vehicles in the US are petrol ones and have different drive train parameters so the 4.5's are not really designed for the Hilux 2005 and on unless it is a comp rig or something. I've pushed Just Differentials a couple of times to consider a 4.3 ratio front to marry up with their 4.3 rear but they have no interest which is a great shame. They don't understand how big a market the Hilux/Vigo is world wide.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby Hilux Max on Fri, 07 Oct 2011 5:39 +0000

VMN wrote:the problem is that the Toyota vehicles in the US are petrol ones and have different drive train parameters so the 4.5's are not really designed for the Hilux 2005 and on unless it is a comp rig or something.


You know yourself that the hilux and tacoma/FJ use the same designed diffs/drivetrains....4.5's are fine for the hiluc if your using an auto D4D which suffers from both the tall 3.73 diff ratio from factory and the overly tall 1st gear ratio.

anything over a wide 33" tyre of bigger would be perfect for4.5's for this vehicle. and it doesnt have to be a comp rig.

J&L wrote: Toyota cannot regear the transfer low ratio when the going get's tough hence the diff ratio has to change.



You can fit a <arlin Lefty in place of your factory transfercase, Lefty is a 4.7 geared, gear driven case rather than a chain one that is standard fitment. solves your problem.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby J&L on Fri, 07 Oct 2011 6:40 +0000

Max, I agree with you. Here the older Toyotas and the Nissans with gear transfer cases has an edge. I went through the whole cost calculation as I used to run a 3.9 ratio on my previous Navara's transfer after 4 hour work to replace the stock 2:1 ratio in the transfer. The lefty has it's drawback mainly due to the costs involved. I'm pleased with the 4.56 and the ease in tough terrain it handles. Drive over a 250mm log at idle and feel the Lux oozing over without a hick gives great pleasure ha-ha!
Then again, I'm not a speed freak (been there . . done it!) and rather enjoy those real occasions when it counts.
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Re: Running 32's on 4.56 diff ratios

Postby Skog07 on Sat, 08 Oct 2011 12:11 +0000

Skog07 wrote:The diesels do have a fairly narrow band of usable power compared to the petrol models.


You serious Mark?

Yep... ;)
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