33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Need something to get you rolling?

33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Gawry on Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:52 +0000

Before I get started, I wanted to say thanks to all the contributors to this forum/website.
The wealth of information that some people have is pretty mind blowing, so thanks! :)

I have been reading the bibles/forums/posts and wasn't sure whether to respond to any of those posts or start a new one as my questions and comments span three seperate subjects (tyres, suspension and drive train components). :?

There seems to be lots of members either running 33" Mud Terrains or wanting to upgrade to 33s obviously with a view to making their Hilux's much more capable when tackling those tricky offroad situations (clearance/capability etc). :mrgreen:

When it comes to those offroad situations I would love to have 33s but to upgrade to them I am assuming :?:
I would need the following modifications: :geek:

1. A further 2" body lift in addition to the common 2" suspension lift that I and most people have. (Because if just a 4" suspension lift and no body lift CV angles are under stress. ) Then the steering shaft extended 40mm.
2. Then because of the lift total it will run out of castor adjustment, will need aftermarket UCAs to return castor to factory trim.
3. Trimming on body mounts is then required.
4. I would then need to get a Prado 120 4:1 ratio diff centre (and if not getting a front airlocker) then also a diff carrier as well and probably new bearings as to match the gearing to the 33s.
5. Then there is the Engineering Certificate/RTA/Insurance requirements for lift over 50mm.

Have I missed out anything :?:
If you are running 33s please comment as I want to know all the issues involved before upgrading.
Also how many people have two sets of tyres, eg Muds for camping/touring and Road/All Terrains tyres for daily use?
If you have any good ideas relating to the above mods required or alternatives, happy to hear your comments too! :)
I always just wanted to be funny. I never really planned to be scary.
User avatar
Gawry
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 8:43 +0000
Location: Townsville


 

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby bill_i_am on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 7:07 +0000

- Your CV angles will be find with a 2" suspension lift mate, you won't need a drop kit or even engineering approval. Depending on where you are, the body lift is also legal without engineering approval (speak to VMN - Rod Webster) as he'll be more than happy to assist you with your kit and the right advice
- Your castor will also be find with a 2" suspension lift without aftermarket UCA's
- You will have to trim your body mounts and a regear is certainly recommended for an auto, but having said this there are guys that haven't bothered with this, so you could do it down the track.
- I currently have two sets of tyres (265/75 R16 MTZ's and 255/70 R16 Cooper ST's) but after doing a trip to the Cape on the MTZ's I'm probably going to offload my Coopers as I'm absolutely stoked with the performance of the MTZ's both on and off road.

Good Luck and I hope you have a large bank balance ;)
I might be slow, but I'm rough.......
User avatar
bill_i_am
 
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 9:52 +0000
Location: Kingaroy

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Hilux Max on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 7:16 +0000

Gawry,

Even thou the topic spans 3 different areas, it is primarily about fitting 33" tyres and thats why I have moved it to the Tyre Section. :geek:

Alot of the info you are seeking is on the site, it sounds like you have searched but need help finalising everything.


2" Suspension Lift

-You'll be able to fit 33/10.5x15 tyres on factory 15x7 SR5 (steel or alloy) +30 offset wheels.
-33/10.5x15 tyres are usually about 32.7x10.5 in dimensions.
-You'll have to remove the front mudflaps but that should be ablout it due to the narrowness of the tyre and the factory offset keeping the combo within the guards.

Link to Thread on 33/10.5x15 Tyres - http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5214

Pic below of DLUX's Hilux with close to a 3" lift and 33/10.5x15 KM2's on 15x7 SR5 wheels -
Image

-Thought I'd also add that 255/85x16's can be fitted on 16x7 wheels.
-255/85x16 are approx 33.3 - 33.5" diameter by 10.2 wide.
-16x7 with +20 or +15 offset is ideal. Prado 90 GXL 16x7 steel rims are great for this.

Link to Thread on 255/85x16 Tyres - http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3572

Here is JustFishn's Hilux with 2" lift and 255/85x16 BFG KM1's -
Image

3" Suspension Lift

-You'll be able to fit 285/75x16's and will require between a +15 to zero offset 16x8 wheel preferably.
-If you have a decent alignment done you should get away with not touching the bodymount.
-You will need to remove the front mudflaps, trim the guard liner and flares if they are fitted on the bottom corners.
-If you have a front bumper bar, you'll need to trim the lower corners from that too to allow you to turn the wheels.
-If you have an ARB bar you'll need to modify the splashguards under neath to allow the tyre to compress.

-You'll be able to fit 305/70x16's thou a little more difficultly due to their extra width. Id go for a zero offset 16x8 wheel atleast. Due to the diameter and width it will touch the swaybar "slightly" on full lock.
-You'll need to trim the front bodymount.
-You'll need to bash the pinch weld back.

-You'll also find the same issues with 33/12.5x15 tyres fitted to 15x8 wheels as you will the 305/70x16 tyres.

Link to 15x8 Steel Wheels that fit thread - http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6221

Here's an explanation of what I did in regards to trimming -
Heres my trimming pics and some detailed explanations as to what I did.

First of all the pics-
Image

A is the pinchweld....I tapped that back about halfway just to get the sharp edghe out of the way as under full compression there was a chance of it hitting the tyre. Before tapping that back, I got a box cutter and sliced the inner guard liner the length of the line at A on the outer side of the pinchweld and mounted it fuirther back with a self taper going through the pinchweld on the inner side before tapping it back.

B is the inner side of the flare that I trimmed as much as I "reasonably" could to help clear the tyre under compression.

C is where I used Black Toyota Threebond Sealant to help seal the gaps that were there to stop crap building up in there.

D is the bottom corner at the rear of the guard where I put 2 or 3 slices into the actual quarter panel and folded it up and inwards towards the rear giving more clearance and a smooth edge. Also cut a little piece off the bottom corner of the flare at an angle.

Next pic is what I did with the splash guards below the ARB bar....
Image

I took them off and bent it up almost 2 inches shorter and then pinned the inner guard liner to it....wasnt easy to attach the guard liner to it as it was a bit further forward than the guard liner curves to.

On the other side, passenger side, I dont have a pic of it here but I did the same thing but had 2 split the bent up bit in two because of the washer jet bottles location, so the inner half I bent up not as much as the oputer half. Hope that makes sense.

I will be relocating the washer bottle at some stage.

The tyres dont hit the body mount, but saying that yesterday I did clip it off road when landing hard after launching out of a deep rut with a tree root running across the top of it.


Link to Fitting 33" Tyre Thread - http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3538

Link to Bodymount Chop Thread - http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=7273

With a 3" lift you will get away with not having to lower the front diff thou the option is out there with several companies.

The other thing with 33" tyres (primarily 285's and wider) is that if your suspension allows full bump travel (when the lower control arms bottoms out on the rubber bump stop on uptravel) the tyre will touch the flare/guard. Not hard but it'll touch. This is a reason why I fitted a 6mm spacer under my bumpstop to limit uptravel by 12mm which was enough.

Link to bumpstop spacer mod - http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=4510

4" Lifts

There are 2 forum vendors selling 4" lift kits. Ultimate and Monster Rides...both are good products that work slightly differently for one another. Best to contact them direct to get their opinions.

Ultimate Suspension - http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=42
Monster Rides - http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=8258

Bodylifts

I think a (personal opinion only) that if cutting and trimming alot isnt you cup of tea a typical 3" suspension lift coupled with a 1" bodylift would be ideal. The 1" bodylift would allow the 33" the full uptravel without hitting the guard on your usual type of suspension lift.

That being said a 2" suspension and 2" bodylift would yield very similar results.

Link to the Bodylift Bible - http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=3816

Gearing

Depending on what vehicle you have, auto or manual. The manuals are factory geared to 3.5:1 so moving up to 3.9 factory gears from a Prado120 would suffice with 33" tyres.

Auto's come with 3.73:1 so upgrading to the factory 4.1 Prado 120 gears will suffice.

Link to the Gearing Bible - http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3554

Engineering

Engineering regulations are different in each state so best to consult your local traffic authority concerning any mods you wish to do. Also remember some insurance companies may not allow some of the mods you wish to perform.

Conclusion

33's are a great mod if your willing to go down that route. Without changing the gearing your final drive will be out of wack. Some may handle it some may not. Ideally offroad you'd want your low range back where it should be so you can safely descend steep terrain.

The lift and load will reduce your fuel economy aswell as your braking performance. Factors to keep in mind.

Hope that helps.
User avatar
Hilux Max
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 12434
Joined: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:00 +0000

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Hilux Max on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 7:25 +0000

Forgot to add that you'll need to get your speedo corrected aswell.
User avatar
Hilux Max
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 12434
Joined: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:00 +0000

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby MADDOG on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 9:17 +0000

Excellent work Max. :ugeek: Your post should be made a sticky. It has the answers to the forever repeated questions. 8-)
Last edited by MADDOG on Mon, 04 Jul 2011 6:48 +0000, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MADDOG
 
Posts: 3954
Joined: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 7:33 +0000
Location: Warburton, Vic

33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Toylux4 on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 9:38 +0000

mmaaxx wrote:Forgot to add that you'll need to get your speedo corrected aswell.


If re-gearing and you select the correct gear ratio you don't need the speedo corrected.

When I fitted 35's on my LN106 I changed from factory 4.3's to 4.88's and my speedo is spot on when compared to a GPS
User avatar
Toylux4
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun, 22 May 2011 7:26 +0000
Location: Northdown Tas

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Hilux Max on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 9:53 +0000

Current model hilux's run an electronic pickup off the transfer case for the speedo. The older hilux's ran a geardriven pickup off the transfer gear.

There is a difference.

Original post edited to add more detail/info.
User avatar
Hilux Max
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 12434
Joined: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:00 +0000

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Gawry on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 3:46 +0000

Thanks very much for the very appreciated advice/comments (especially Mmaaxx).

It definetly gives me some specific options to weigh up for future mods.
No doubt the above info will be very handy for all those looking at getting 33s.

Cheers :)
I always just wanted to be funny. I never really planned to be scary.
User avatar
Gawry
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 8:43 +0000
Location: Townsville

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby danmcccc on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 4:16 +0000

all i did was 3 inch lift (bilstein + dobinson) 285/75r16 on a 20p offset...works great, minor trimming of inner gurard and mudflaps removed, clips chassis and swaybar on HARD lock (just clips), fitted marks adaptors speedo corrector...sweet as...ive got an auto, didnt regear, ive got a steinbeauer and 3 inch exhaust, beats stock luxs.... awesome offroad, especially with front and rear lockers, 33's give us more ground clearance than a pootrol on 35's soooo yer DO IT! haha

cheers
Dan
old enough to know better...young enough to not give a f**k

MY KILLER BUILD THREAD
viewtopic.php?t=9235
User avatar
danmcccc
 
Posts: 2522
Joined: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 5:16 +0000
Location: Brisbane, westside

33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Mattya on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 4:18 +0000

Where can you buy the crown wheel an pinions from in the ratios for 33's?
Im Always On The Edge, It Only The Sharpness That Varys.
User avatar
Mattya
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 7:53 +0000
Location: Far North QLD

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Hilux Max on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 4:31 +0000

Matty, alot of the gearing info is in the Gearing Bible...linked above.

Wreckers for second hand gear. Toyota for genuine or aftermarket USA.
User avatar
Hilux Max
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 12434
Joined: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:00 +0000

33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Toylux4 on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 4:44 +0000

Current model hilux's run an electronic pickup off the transfer case for the speedo. The older hilux's ran a geardriven pickup off the transfer gear.

There is a difference.

Original post edited to add more detail/info.

Correct me if I am wrong, and I am sure you will mmaxx!!!, but the only difference is that one supplies the signal to the Speedo via electrical wires the other via cable.

They are both set by the factory for the size tyres and final drive gear ratio
User avatar
Toylux4
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun, 22 May 2011 7:26 +0000
Location: Northdown Tas

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby amitch888 on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 5:33 +0000

I would have thought with the right gearing it would correct the speedo as the reading is taken before the diffs....?
FCCW
Mitch's Build

Education is what you get when you read the fine print, experience is what you get when you don't.
User avatar
amitch888
Moderator
 
Posts: 5231
Joined: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 7:18 +0000
Location: Tennyson, Vic

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby VMN on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 5:55 +0000

amitch888 wrote:I would have thought with the right gearing it would correct the speedo as the reading is taken before the diffs....?


The factory speedo reads under by about 10% and with 31's it is still a bit under (3-4%). Moving to 32" the speedo is about 3-4% over. So if you add 33's you will be about 10% over. You will need speedo correction.

I run 32's and then regeared to 4.1's. So now I am back being 10% under as the factory gearing is restored. What does this mean? On the highway at 110 km/hr the speedo indicates 120 k's (and about 108k's at 100 km/hr.)

Certainly happy to help out with body lift, and even rear diff gears but you'll need to source front ratios from Toyota or a wrecker.
VehicleMods (RodW)
vmn.com.au
VMN Body Lift kit
Dedicated to providing exceptional value and service to NewHilux members
VMN
 
Posts: 1215
Joined: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 8:31 +0000

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Gawry on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 6:01 +0000

Dan,

Very very tempting to fit them.
Step 1 To source the cash.
Step 2 Ultimate Suspension Smart Lift
Step 3 source more cash
Step 4 33s and diff centre fitted (and front air locker)

Not sure how long that will all take (could be years with my cash flow).
In the mean time will keep an eye out at wreckers for Prado 120 4:1 diff.
Bit of luck will get a cheap one.
I always just wanted to be funny. I never really planned to be scary.
User avatar
Gawry
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 8:43 +0000
Location: Townsville

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Gawry on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 6:18 +0000

Thanks VMN,

May just get your Body Lift product if I am back living in Queensland before I source cash for upgrades.
I always just wanted to be funny. I never really planned to be scary.
User avatar
Gawry
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 8:43 +0000
Location: Townsville

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby tdah2 on Sun, 03 Jul 2011 9:32 +0000

with the gearing what r all options. ie what about bigger then 4.1 if im gona run 35's. who makes what an were can i get them from ? is diff gears the only way? what about dual transfer etc etc.
tdah2
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:48 +0000
Location: Brisbane

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby VMN on Mon, 04 Jul 2011 6:43 +0000

tdah2 wrote:with the gearing what r all options. ie what about bigger then 4.1 if im gona run 35's. who makes what an were can i get them from ? is diff gears the only way? what about dual transfer etc etc.


The Bible thread has all the options and part numbers.

The affect of diff ratios on engine RPM that I have published here
http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/hilux-150 ... drivedrain
Indicates that if you can get 35's to fit then 4.556 are the right option.

Mmaaxx is the only forum member (I think) with dual transfers.
VehicleMods (RodW)
vmn.com.au
VMN Body Lift kit
Dedicated to providing exceptional value and service to NewHilux members
VMN
 
Posts: 1215
Joined: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 8:31 +0000

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby tdah2 on Mon, 04 Jul 2011 3:59 +0000

cool. thanks dude. Are 4.5 front an rear avalible tho ? or is my only option dual transfers etc
tdah2
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:48 +0000
Location: Brisbane

Re: 33" Mud Terrains/Body Lift/Diff Centre

Postby Hilux Max on Mon, 04 Jul 2011 6:03 +0000

read the gearing bible.

4.5 thick cut gears from Just Diffs. pretty sure VMN can get them in.

rear you can buy locally.

read the bible....theres more info there than just what you seek which will help you understand your vehicle more aswell.
User avatar
Hilux Max
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 12434
Joined: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:00 +0000

Next

Return to Tyres & Wheels

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests