DPF blowing smoke, ECM update, Replacement etc

[berniecam]

So I've been on a road trip through NSW and nothing has changed. I timed the last regen which was at least 44 minutes. When I say regen I'm talking about the soft regen that occurs without any warning lights and you can tell its happening due to smell of exhaust, fuel consumption increase, slight engine noise change and most noticeably the slight increase in rev's to 900rpm (auto).

So I contacted the dealer to discuss and was shot down. Tech told me they were done with my car as it's operating normally. The 5th injector apparently operates continuously and they have bascially wiped their hands of me. For now. When I return I'll be seeking an appointment with the Service Manager.

I told the tech the idle up happens about every 300-400km's which is normal but should only last about 10-20 min given my highway driving. I was told I was wrong and that it happens all the time. When I asked why Toyota would make a car that is a 4 cylinder diesel but have 5 injectors running constantly I was just told that's how it is. Needless to say I think the tech is wrong but he did quote some system that he called it so I'll get more info from them in the coming days. Not liking the fob off

Hi blackey34457 Whoever told you that about the fifth injector firing all the time is definitely smoking something & NOT from planet earth.
I & many others here will tell you that IT DEFINATELY DOES NOT FIRE ALL THE TIME UNLESS IT IS FAULTY, how do I know this? because I have an indicator LED (I have done an in depth post on how to install one do a search & you will find it ) that tells me when it is firing it is completely under control of the ECU it is also not even a steady injection but is pulsed injection & can be sped up or slowed down by the ECU it also has its own fuel supply from the pump & also water cooling to it. It also has got nothing whatsoever to do with the four common rail injectors.
Cheers

[numberplate]

our Russian friends have kindly posted a good diagram of how it works. have a look here http://toyota-club.net/files/faq/15-10- ... ne_eng.htm .
look under Fuel system / Engine control and item no. 8 is the DPF injector. runs at lower pressure to other 4 squirters

[blackey34457]

Berniecam, based on your research do you think the idle up and 5th injector running during highway speeds constantly for 44 minutes seems extreme? My wife's Mazda CX-5 diesel does the same thing except the 5th injector only works for about 14 minutes?

Also, does the 5th injector still operate with the car traveling over 120km/h or does it have set parameters set in the ECU which restricts in operation?

[Ryan1kd]

So I've been on a road trip through NSW and nothing has changed. I timed the last regen which was at least 44 minutes. When I say regen I'm talking about the soft regen that occurs without any warning lights and you can tell its happening due to smell of exhaust, fuel consumption increase, slight engine noise change and most noticeably the slight increase in rev's to 900rpm (auto).

So I contacted the dealer to discuss and was shot down. Tech told me they were done with my car as it's operating normally. The 5th injector apparently operates continuously and they have bascially wiped their hands of me. For now. When I return I'll be seeking an appointment with the Service Manager.

I told the tech the idle up happens about every 300-400km's which is normal but should only last about 10-20 min given my highway driving. I was told I was wrong and that it happens all the time. When I asked why Toyota would make a car that is a 4 cylinder diesel but have 5 injectors running constantly I was just told that's how it is. Needless to say I think the tech is wrong but he did quote some system that he called it so I'll get more info from them in the coming days. Not liking the fob off

Hi blackey34457 Whoever told you that about the fifth injector firing all the time is definitely smoking something & NOT from planet earth.
I & many others here will tell you that IT DEFINATELY DOES NOT FIRE ALL THE TIME UNLESS IT IS FAULTY, how do I know this? because I have an indicator LED (I have done an in depth post on how to install one do a search & you will find it ) that tells me when it is firing it is completely under control of the ECU it is also not even a steady injection but is pulsed injection & can be sped up or slowed down by the ECU it also has its own fuel supply from the pump & also water cooling to it. It also has got nothing whatsoever to do with the four common rail injectors.
Cheers

This is what I assumed aswell but John 'talktheroo' mentioned that the 5th injector takes pressure or flow away from the engine injectors causing damage when there is a fault with excessive burn off/smoke.

EDIT can see its own supply coming from pump on schematic but whether overall flow/press is effected during excessive burning from 5th injector.

[berniecam]

Berniecam, based on your research do you think the idle up and 5th injector running during highway speeds constantly for 44 minutes seems extreme? My wife's Mazda CX-5 diesel does the same thing except the 5th injector only works for about 14 minutes?

Also, does the 5th injector still operate with the car traveling over 120km/h or does it have set parameters set in the ECU which restricts in operation?

Hi blackey34457 Your first question if it is running constantly for 44 minutes yes I think that is extreme I would have thought it may cycle on & off a couple of times as the ECU has control over it there may be a fault in that.
As for operating at 120 kph I do not know. I have seen mine come on for short periods at 110 kph.
If the injector is staying on all the time well one would assume a fault in the ECU keeping it turned on.
The next part of that lowering fuel pressure to the common rail injectors is interesting, best way to find out may be a diesel specialist like Berrima diesel service could answer that one, to see if that is possible.
Cheers.

[numberplate]

I doubt if the 5th injector would lower rail pressure to the other 4 - its fed by a separate portion of the pump ( which the diagrams show ) and the rail pressure sensor would detect a loss and compensate for it anyway.

interestingly the diagrams also mention a pump version which does not have the 5th injector , for some markets only.

[Magnum06]

Wowsa, this all turns me off from buying an N80 in the future. I'll buy another low km N70 for my next ute.

[gjn]

Wowsa, this all turns me off from buying an N80 in the future. I'll buy another low km N70 for my next ute.

For most of us the DPF is not an issue, every now and then the idle is slightly higher while it does a regeneration and that's about it. The only impact I see is that my fuel mileage drops from 8.8 to 8.9 which is still well on the good side of 30 mpg. Think about the number of N80 vehicles sold - if the DPF was a major issue then given the number of vehicles out there you'd expect a lot more publicity surrounding the "problem".

[blackey34457]

I did an experiment the other day as I cam driving back from Sydney to Wagga. As I exited from the Hume onto the Sturt I noticed the HiLux went into a burn cycle. I stayed at 100km/h and moved the auto gear stick to "S" and locked it into 5th gear so the truck wouldn't use top gear. That kept my rev's around 2,000rpm. The burn cycle lasted only 21 minutes this time.

I think half the problem is that the rev's are too low for an efficient burn when chugging along in top gear.

[Ryan1kd]

If it can perform a burn off at idle at 1200rpm then driving in top gear at 1500 is not going to be an issue.

The other pump without the provision for the 5th injector would be for the adblue version of the hilux yet to be released here in Australia.

[nitroman]

evening,
hey all . ive had my hilux for a short while 4000kms and the last few days regeneration has been going on constantly
anyone had any similar or same issues . its constantly regenerating ive gone for a three hour highway drive and the bloody thing is sill regenerating

[DeadlyBeast]

Yep
Threads merged

[numberplate]

evening,
hey all . ive had my hilux for a short while 4000kms and the last few days regeneration has been going on constantly
anyone had any similar or same issues . its constantly regenerating ive gone for a three hour highway drive and the bloody thing is sill regenerating

yes mine does many many burns , both full and partial. Toyota claim its working as designed so i thought i'd just put up with it. BUT - now at 12000klm its starting to blow smoke , so its time for a new DPF and software revision as others have done.

[Joukowski]

I wish someone would put up some logic on how this DPF is supposed to work. All i've managed to work out is that if you operate in Power mode you will DPF urn about every 200km. & if operating in normal or eco mode - it's 400km.

But what about the length of the burn and why? I've yet to figure this out.


had a new dpf put in in the 30000km service btw. was told i was wasn't driving the hilux hard enough for the filter to clean itself so it was chocka full and had to be replaced.

[Ryan1kd]

Parameters are wrong. It's got temp sensors and pressure differential sensors which are there so it only burns when it needs to and for however long it needs to....not just on a certain regulate basis. Eg...every 200km or 400km. Because driving style changes.. Obviously the parameters are all wrong. Take it back to Toyota. Mine has done 35000km and has worked flawlessly. Burns when it needs to. I let it burn when it wants to. Never caused any issues. 2015 build.

[nicovdw]

Mine has started blowing a ton of smoke at 35k as well. Seems to be constantly regenning since around the 30k service, which is when the gearbox patch was applied. Prior to the fix the truck would not hold 6th.

I suspect the testing of the dpf parameters were all done when the trucks spent most time in 5th beacuse of the box issue.

[numberplate]

just a thought here , and i may be wrong , but can the too frequent regens be doing any damage to our turbos? subjecting them to higher temps than neccesaary ??

[Ryan1kd]

Doubt it. They can take the heat.. Seen all sorts of crazy turbo temps during forced regens at work on trucks and never seen any turbo issues as a result.

[sadeacs]

Ml luxxy seems to idle at 900RPM almost all the time, what should be the normal idle range for these donks - 750'ish I am assuming?
Cheers
Scott

[iller]

So yesterday for the first time in 700 miles i had my dpf doing a regen that i noticed, ie i stood still and had it in neutral and the regen started.. i let it finish and then turned the car off.

Today i took it for a short spin and it did the same thing, seems to me it is starting to do this too often?