When do you need a licensed electrician?

[DeadlyBeast]

A lot of us like to do our own work on our rigs, installing suspension, roof racks, bar work, servicing and the like.

We also like doing some of our own DC work installing dual battery systems, uhf, winches, spot lights, compressors etc.
So where does the line get drawn... When is a qualified electrician is required ?

This thread is for those with electrical expertise to share their knowledge, relevant safety code information and examples of what should not be attempted by the average 4X4 enthusiast.

[Myralga]

For the most part 12V is free reign. But play at your own peril. Common sense should certainly prevail.
If your not trained or not comfortable working on a can bus system or negative earth switched circuits and if you don’t know what the laws/rules are etc then chances are you should not be touching it and you should ask for help pay a professional.
It is so easy to mess up a vital component just with a test light these days.
Nissan NP300 you can blow the lighting ecu while poking around looking for high beam.
New Prados are the same. That’s $500+ components without even trying.
Rangers amaroks all have sensors in every system looking for abnormalities throwing fault codes. Everything is interconnected in modern 4WDs.

One point on this worth mentioning. Is inverters. 240v systems which are permanently fitted in vehicles are meant to be tested and tagged by electricians, earthed correctly etc. these systems can kill you if done incorrectly. Just like home mains can.

I’m not a Auto elec but I was a Mechanic working for a shop where we were the elecs for our product. And trust me it’s so easy to mess up modern electrical systems.


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[oggy]

I would say when it either doesnt work or the magic blue smoke escapes ......does this apply to 240 as well? My sparky knows I do some basic stuff myself, especially when I get sick of Waiting for him

[fracturedranga]

Ill add some info on the low voltage side of things, low voltage by AS 3000 is classified as anything greater than 50Vac or 120Vdc, and needs to be installed and tested by a licensed electrician as per the following

Under section 18 of the Electrical Safety Act 2002 (the Act), electrical work includes "the manufacturing, constructing, installing, testing, maintaining, repairing, altering, removing, or replacing of electrical equipment".

This covers tasks such as installing a new power point, replacing a light switch, replacing a batten holder with a new light fitting, repairing an appliance such as a heater, altering the location of an existing power point, replacing a light fitting with a ceiling fan, or constructing an extension lead and replacing a plug on the end of a lead.

It is not against the law to purchase electrical accessories or appliances that need to be hard wired, but they must be connected by a licensed electrical contractor.

Other work such as replacing a drive belt in a washing machine, cutting openings for air-conditioning units or fitting, but not connecting, an electric wall oven in a kitchen cabinet are not regarded as electrical work under the legislation. However, electrical risks such as damage to, or contact with, wiring contained within wall cavities need to be considered and appropriately controlled particularly when cutting holes or driving screws or nails into walls.

Here's the link if you want to follow up and read more into it
https://www.worksafe.qld.gov.au/injury- ... rs/dontdiy

The issues are that unless you know exactly what your are doing it's very easy to miss something vital and cause a potentially dangerous situation, it only takes 30mA across your heart to kill you. Electricians have a series of standards to follow and a lot of tests that are mandatory to complete to ensure the safe operation of an electrical installation.

Now inverters are somewhat of a grey area and the regs haven't really kept up well with the newer technology but as long as you stay with plug and play gear and follow the manufacturers instructions you should be fine.

And the same as above if in doubt at all take it to a professional, I could imagine anything worse than wiring something up that caused a fault that killed someone you love, not to mention the fact you would also get prosecuted and if found guilty go to jail

[fracturedranga]

Sorry double post

[HK1837]

Just to add a fraction to Fracturedranga’s info.

At some point voltage becomes High Voltage which has further requirements. In AC it is over 1000V.

Most States differ slightly in application but in general they are the similar.

It is also important to understand that most reported electric shocks, and most electrocutions (deaths) are NOT Electrical persons doing electrical work. They are mostly non-electrical people coming into contact with dangerous voltages by:

Contact with overhead lines.
Contact with Arc Welding voltages.
Plumbers and metal water pipes (broken neutral connection).
Unsafe use of, and/or unsafe handling of, and/or unsafe portable equipment.

The last one includes power tools, leads and stuff like food vans, caravans etc that are plugged into mains. Recently inverters and generators have crept into this category.
As you can see in most cases these will all be non-Electrical personnel.

[Critter350]

Below 50V AC or 120V DC is considered extra low voltage (ELV) and you don’t need to be licensed. You still want to be competent because if your work causes your rig to burn down, don’t expect insurance to cough up. And if someone is hurt, you could be liable too.
Ranga’s definition of electrical work is more accurate, but as a rule of thumb I say ‘if it has bare wires or needs tools’ it’s electrical work.
I don’t think inverters create a grey area. On the input (ELV) side you can do your own wiring, but the output side is plug and play only unless you have an electrical license.


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[HK1837]

In theory I agree but you don’t need an electrical licence to work on LV on an appliance which a van (or similar) is. Competent and trained yes, but not licenced. I wouldn’t recommend anyone doing it though.

[Myralga]

I would say when it either doesnt work or the magic blue smoke escapes ......does this apply to 240 as well? My sparky knows I do some basic stuff myself, especially when I get sick of Waiting for him

First thing I was taught with electrical.

“What ever you do .... Don’t let the smoke out”

Also everyone thinks 12V is this safe thing but it can still bite. I have a nice scar and a metal banded triple clasp watch where all the links welded together because while painting a engine block removing the tape off the alternator I brushed the positive terminal and the housing.
Only took a split second for damage to be done.
I didn’t where a watch for the next 10plus years
Just be careful


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[fracturedranga]

Hk you certainly do caravans, portable homes, etc come under AS3001 and have stricter safety measures ie require double pole switches. There's a separate standard again for mobile food vans and amusement rides, as critter said anything that requires tools to fit needs to be installed and tested by a licensed electrician. There are a few exceptions in the legislation but they mostly cover electrical apprentices, Trade assistants and the like under supervision of a tradesman.

[fracturedranga]

Here's the exert from the act regarding vehicles

(2)Electrical equipment does not include any apparatus, appliance, cable, conductor, fitting, insulator, material, meter or wire that is part of a vehicle if—

(a)the equipment is part of a unit of the vehicle that provides propulsion for the vehicle; or

(b)the electricity source for the equipment is a unit of the vehicle that provides propulsion to the vehicle.

Examples of things that, under subsection (2), are not electrical equipment—

•the headlights of a vehicle

•ignition spark plugs of a motor vehicle

•the interior lighting system of a vehicle, if powered from a battery charged by the engine that drives the vehicle or by the vehicle's movement

Examples of things that are not prevented by subsection (2) from being electrical equipment—

•interior lighting or a socket outlet in a caravan, if the lighting or outlet is operated by a low voltage generating set or connected to low voltage supply

•a refrigeration unit in a food delivery vehicle operating at low voltage from a source separate from the propulsion unit for the vehicle

[HK1837]

Are you sure an eleco is required for AS3001 compliance? Electricians Licence is based around AS/NZS3000. I have seen 3001 in references in 3000.
I thought it was like stand alone renewable setups where the designer and installer needs certain qualifications, but doesn’t have to be a traditional eleco. In NSW anyway.

[fracturedranga]

Electrical License requirements are based on the electrical safety act 2002, the standards are supplementary documentation outlining the processes required to comply with the act. Now im not an expert on the legislation but I have read it a few times. Theyre are a few exceptions for manufacturers and such but you need strict process controls and generally still needs to be supervised and tested by a licensed electrician. You can get restricted electrical licenses, plumbers and fridgies are a good example, they can disconnect and reconnect from an isolator and a few other things according to the restrictions on their license

[fracturedranga]

Here's a link to the act
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view ... t-2002-042

[HK1837]

Hmm. On first read looks different to NSW. Will look a bit further when back in Australia. Some basic info here though:
https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/trad ... electrical

[Mhewitt]

When is a qualified electrician is required ?

...when you don't know if you need one or not.

[DeadlyBeast]

Thanks to all for the input so far

To clarify why this thread was created:
A thread has been recently removed due to a possible safety risk.
It involved modification of an inverter which may not have been safe or legal.
Dave wouldnt be too happy if this site was mentioned in a court room or coroners report

There is nothing wrong with confident and competent enthusiasts installing electrical accessories.
However, this thread is to highlight that there is some work that requires a professional not matter how competent the enthusiast.

Examples of such work may help guide those who may push the boundaries of what is safe. As others have pointed out, insurance may not cover unlicensed work should it all go up in flames.

So the no nos so far:
- unlicensed modification of an inverter
- (modification of electrical) equipment is part of a unit of the vehicle that provides propulsion for the vehicle
Anything else?