Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

[DeadlyBeast]

Title edited for clarity
Threads moved from general discussion to electrical section

[adamkberger]

For those with a genuine dual battery kit, there is a recall on at the moment. Apparently the original design puts too much load on the guard causing it to crack under extreme conditions. I had mine in today for a replacement but that was a waste of time. Apparently your local dealer needs to take photos before starting, then remove the dual battery and tray and inspect for cracks on the guard. If no cracks are found, they can then order the new tray. Why this couldn't be preordered is beyond me. So it appears to be a two trip fix. If you have cracks in your guard, you're shit out of luck cause apparently they don't have any replacements according to the letter I received.

[adamkberger]

For those interested, I finally got my new tray fitted during this week. I will post some pictures when I get around to re- installing my circuit breakers. As it stands there appears to be a lot of bolts going through the guard. I count 10 now vs the original 4, plus the top of the tray is now also bolted to the side of the engine bay. Looks very sturdy.

[Woodpecker]

Any info on the most accessible in-cab location of ignition only power in 2017 Hilux for wiring the redarc BCDC1240D blue wire to?

[TOYZX]

Fuse panel behind the glove box man, I use a piggyback fuse link on the back of the wiper fuse.

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[Woodpecker]

Cheers, I've got a mini blade fuse tap which fits in the fuse block but the wiper fuse does not fit into the tap (fuse "legs" aren't long enough. I suppose getting a mini fuses is the solution.

[TOYZX]

Correct [emoji6]

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[Woodpecker]

[quote="TOYZX"]Correct [emoji6]

Or taking some wire cutters to a standard blade fuse to trim the width of the legs. Worked out well, ('till I get the minis), Cheers.

[Hilux Max]

I dont know that much about dual battery installations but am considering a setup in the near future a friend is going to help with.

Want to run either 1 larger than average battery ontop of the LHR fender/tubliner or two standard sized deep cycle batteries, one on top of each rear fender in battery boxes.


Am currently making enquiries aboit the genuine kit and will discuss if i can buy components seperate to use whateber woll be needed. Stuff for the custom fitout we will make ourselves.

Will run 2 aux plugs in the tub too.

Those with the genuine battery carrier.....do you think it could be adapted to bolt ontop of the rear fender easily enough.....or will i need to get something custom made?

[Myralga]

Hilux max.
Based on what I have seen in regards to the battery tray genuine or aftermarket. Better off getting a standard flat tray and modifying it to suit above the rear arches.
Personally if I was going down this path. I would go two average size batteries. Max of say 25-30kg over each wheel arch.
Keep in mind the weight is the major issue here. Old hilux’s (5-15) had trouble with the fender cracking under the weight of the 2nd battery in the engine bay. New Hilux have weight limits. Arb for example in engine bay fit out say max weight 25kg (unless you purchase the new kit released about a month ago which is reinforced and gets 30kg)
Also I wouldn’t go genuine components for the charging circuit costs way too much and you get better product for less money elsewhere.
Back to the rear tub get support running down onto the tub floor as much as possible that will provide you a better structure.

Hope this helps


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[adamkberger]

I finally got around to pulling out my new battery tray to re install my circuit breakers. It is an absolute pain to get out and back in. There are 10 T-30 Torx bolts holding it down. The new tray is now 2 piece with the bottom piece being stamped. It would have been easier to have Rivnuts in the lower piece so that you could install this first and then bolt on the tray afterwards. The 4 holes with zinc in them are for the circuit breakers.




A new spacer to clear the bolts and I think may act as a damper.


New side bracket.


Finished product. This thing ain't going anywhere. I need to adjust the side bracket down a bit.

[adamwcct]

Adam, do the new trays accommodate a larger battery? Do you have a part number for the tray? Cheers

[adamkberger]

I don't think you can get a bigger battery in these trays. Height is the issue. You might be better off with another brand.

[rjo89]

Put this in my member build but thought I'd throw it in here for those that are interested.




So the last few days have been pretty busy. Fitted a second battery tray from Air On Board (ebay - $155) which is made for a Exide LCS27-97 battery, which is a 97AH deep cycle available from Anaconda (on special got it for $185)

The Projecta IDC25 DC-DC charger is also from eBay, including 2x midi fuse holders and 2x 40A fuses, was $299 delivered, which is an absolute bargain I reckon.

Quality of the battery tray is good, battery charger even better. Ran 8B&S cabling throughout as per recommendation in the instruction manual. That'll be the same size I get down to the tray.


Having read all the information contained on this forum, I took some good lessons out of it, namely to install the battery controller on the bracket before installation in the car, as there is very VERY little room in the car after it's installed. So that's what I did. The battery tray comes as two parts, and you bolt the battery charger bracket to the tray, then install everything after that. Will see how it goes with the heat from the engine bay but I'm happy with where it is for now.




The battery tray is bolted down in 4 locations, and can be a bit confusing to start with. One of the bolts (passenger side front) is threaded through a captive nut in the wheel arch. The Drivers side front feeds through a pre-existing hole in the arch and is washered and nutted from underneath. The Driver's side rear feeds through and it washered and nutted from underneath as well, but I installed two washers between the tray and the wheel arch to level it out a bit more. Then after those three are installed, you drill through the wheel arch and install the rear passenger side bolt through the arch with a washer and nut from underneath. Pretty easy overall.




Then you remove the plastic clips on the passenger side bonnet lip, and mark where the slit in the plastic is and drill 2x 9mm holes in the guard, before installing nutserts in there. These are then used to hold the support bracket with M6 bolts, before everything is reinstalled and secured.

The battery was an absolute nightmare to squeeze in, but it does go. Remove the accessory fuse box, the lid off the factory fuse box and pre-bend the wiring on the firewall to accommodate the battery. Slide it in, with much swearing, then bolt it down.




Positives were installed with the supplied 40A Midi Fuses, grounds bolted onto the factory one behind the accessory fuse box. I left the ignition wire open and it appears to be working fine, charging and isolating as it should. Any questions feel free to ask!

[Hilux Max]

So does the N80 have a "smart alternator"??. or is everyone hooking up ignition because the alternator only puts out 13.2v (or whatever it is) when charging, which isnt ideal for AGM batteries?

Not sure if you would call it 'smart', but I believe the alternator's output varies with engine temperature. I'm not sure if 'ECO' mode affects it also.

Conflicting information such as this is what I have been coming across while researching dual battery setups. One person says you can run a large AGM battery and another says you cant because of the limited voltage the smart alternator puts out. WTF?

Also from what I read the genuine dual battery kit doesnt charge enough and only provides for a small secons battery. I want a custom setup and cant seem.to find any reputable info on this.

I spoke to one auto elec who is also a 4x4 enthusiast about my plans to fit a large second battery either in the tub or custom mounted under it and he quoted the following:

In terms of my personal preference and expertise i would have one large AGM battery mounted on the wheel well like the picture shows, in terms of that its good news if your wanting to get one our kits have just been upgraded from 110ah 800cca to a huge 135ah 1150cca, the batterys are a fully sealed AGM, and all our kits are controlled via a Projecta Isolator with built in self jump start.
In terms of charging power you should look into upgrading your alternator to a high output one, and maybe even look into solar panels.
And for plugs we currently have a usb/5v/voltmeter boards in stock

Battery Size is
330x175x218
I fully and fit everything for around 900-950 usually, depending on installation
And yes you will have to supply battery mounts, and it will be your choiceof battery box or not

Does that sound like a workable setup on the N80?
Is the price quoted realistic?
Im a noob when it comes to dual batteries but I want a big powerful setup for winching, fridge and keeping lights on at night.

I dont trust the big brand naned companies as I feel they are just pushing their product and not providing the best option for me or even knowing enough about these vehicles.

Would appreciate your collective knowledge/opinions and guidance.

[numberplate]

Max , some of what that auto elec says is correct except it needs some clarification. the kit he described will work with older cars ( without smart alternators ) but wont work very well with the N80 ( smart alternator ) .

where he says " you should look into upgrading your alternator to a high output one " , yes that would be great but no upgrade exists at present because someone needs to find a way of bypassing the resultant Canbus error codes.
at present the only option is a larger DCDC unit , probably a 40amp version.

[adamkberger]

The current Hilux uses a Temperature Compensating Alternator which reduces the voltage output as the engine temperature rises, which I believe is to extend battery life. The Projecta isolator you're looking at, will work, is probably a lot cheaper than a DC charger, but may not charge your AGM battery fully (probably never). The size of the battery you've suggested (135AH) may mean that it is never an issue, depending on how you use it. The State Of Charge may only ever reach 70-80% but then you can only really use the battery down to around 30-40% before the voltage is too low for your fridge to operate. If you let your battery get this low too often, it will probably reduce its life expectancy.
I had a similar setup in my 100 series Landcruiser. With a 100AH battery, I would get 2-3 days max from the battery and I would have to replace the battery every 2-3 years. This was from an alternator that had an output of 13.8 volts constant, not an alternator that reduces to low 13s as the temperature rises. My current Hilux only has a 65AH battery which is quite small. In saying this, I can get nearly 2 days out of it without ever starting the car and coupled with a solar panel, it never goes flat (providing there is sun). I'm using a 40l Engel fridge which has to be constantly restocked with beer which means the fridge is cycling quite a bit to cool down the new cans. I've since purchased a 95l Waeco Dual Zone fridge which I'm hoping I can fully load the fridge at home and not have to replenish stock, reducing cycle times. It also the benefit of being able to switch off each zone if your'e not using it.
This is just my experience using dual batteries and other people's experience may differ from mine. I guess you just need to decide how you want to use your setup and choose what's appropriate to you.

Adam.

[Hilux Max]

Thankyou for your input fellas but still confused.

Numberplate, your saying the setup i got quoted wont work on the n80 and instead of the Projector Isolator i would need a dcdc unit?

Adamberger, your saying the projector will work, but i need to run a smaller deep cycle battery to make the most benefit out of it?

Even just between you two blokes theres 2 different views on whether itd work and how?

My first priority would be sufficient pulling power for winching as i plan to fit a large winch to do harder tracks, but needs to be able to run a fridge too.

Would the genuine 65aH toyota setup handle that? I think not......

[martynvella]

Max, you could ask 10 different people and they will all give you different scenarios, most people in here have had experience with only one or two of their own systems but know if they work or not, where the auto elecs might have sorted out multiple dozens of systems from new installs to ones that have just been engineered incorrectly for the way they are being used, but worked for the people that told them how to do it.

From experience over many years I have found it best to stick with quality which means dollars, steer clear of the cheap DCDC units, I chose to use Redarc. BCDC 1225 LV, mounted under the back seat mid way between the front and back aux batteries, clean, dry and more temp stable.

With smart chargers it is an accepted rule of thumb to divide the capacity of your batteries by 10, and this becomes the minimum size charger you should run in AMPS, you run the risk of overcharging if you go smaller as the unit will struggle to get the voltage high enough to change to float and will stay in absorption and overcharge the batteries. A DCDC charger is a smart charger with a low voltage input so same rules apply.

If you opt for a 40 amp DCDC unit which there are several reasons to do so then I highly recommend upgrading to a 130 amp alternator with the supply to the charger taken directly from the alternator through its own circuit breaker as not to overload the original alt fuse. ( not sure if there is a direct swap over for the N80).

If you think you will be running your winch for extended periods then no, a 65 Ah battery wont last long, deep cycle batteries don't like high outputs so your thinking of multiple batteries is in my opinion best, not so much for the capacity but to share the load and be kinder to the batteries.

If your after the most efficient use of the DCDC charger with the driving time available, then run the fridges directly off the alternator when driving and have it automatically change over to the AUX when the engine is shut down.

If you intend to be doing a lot of driving with only short stops then solar will be more trouble than it is worth, but if your going to be staying put for days at a time then it becomes much more viable, even a small 50 watt panel will make a lot of difference to the run time off the batteries but wont be indefinite.

Solar is another one of those very use specific areas, they are bulky, heavy and weather dependent, defiantly not the complete answer but very useful when set up properly, I run a 180 watt 36 volt panel, but my set up is unusual, the trailer has an independent system that can be linked to the ute where the fridge lives over night.

Design the system to run your most important system, usually the fridges, but in your case it may be the winch, different batteries may be needed and different charging devices, maybe even a devoted battery for the winch depending on how much use it will be getting, and alterations to the alternator circuit. Add up all the running time your winch has had in the last two years, most people it is about half hour so not really worth factoring in, but if it is 10 or more hours then its a different story.
If you heavily dependent on the winch maybe an electric winch is not the best choice, look into a small hydraulic pump such as a power steering pump and hydraulic winch, would be a lot lighter than an electric set up with extra batteries to run it.

Good luck.

It is a game of compromise, choose the best for you.

[Hilux Max]

Thanks Martyn.

I ended up speaking to the bloke from Piranha Offroad today. He basically said similar. Said he can custom design a setup to do whatever you need, for any requirement/performance and budget. So i think i will go see him at some stage and have a good chat in person and sort something out.

I just dont trust genuine or the big name brands.

Thankyou all for your input and advice. Was good reading.