Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Myralga on Fri, 09 Feb 2018 11:10 +0000

Max if your interested I will throw my 2 cents in here also.

I understand your frustrations on name brands I get that. But a lot of the knowledge in the background doesn’t make it out of the salespersons mouth because simply they don’t understand it. If they don’t have a auto elec trade or atleast mechanic and basic elec. then they are just a pretty face selling you a kit that they have no idea how it operates.

My experience comes from the heavy vehicle industry and I have worked for in the past and still have friends in arb now.

As for the N80 smart tech and canbus most people don’t wanna mess with it that includes me and I did my trade on the junk. Great when it works but don’t mess with it (this is my No1 pet hate of rangers every circuit has a fault sensor in it)
Anyway back to the message at hand.

Winching
I always set up to winch directly from the main start battery. Winches pull huge amps under heavy loads. And really the only device in your car capable of high amp/current output constantly is the alternator. If you set up onto a secondary battery you will basically drain it quicker then a dcdc charger can ever fill it (25 or 40 in 100+ going out it’s simple math) if your using something like an sbi (relay) your never going to get your secondary above 80%.
So winch off main.

As for fridge etc. secondary batteries
Everyone here knows toyota did a recall on their bat tray in the engine bay. Arb upgraded theirs to a 30kg capacity from 25 recently also.
Agm and gels are nice and maintenance free but really don’t like heat and are heavy for their size. There is nothing wrong with the old tech if you maintain the battery.

For me personally this is how I have my set up.
I have the new arb tray with a N70Z size lead acid deep cycle battery. This is 105 amp hr and 25kg all contained under the hood. Redarc BCDC 1225D (solar ready and low voltage trigger left disconnected) is my charger. It’s mounted in front of radiator to improve cooling.
As for solar I have 120w of panel mounted to my roof so the green energy dcdc charger means I hardly (weather permitting) draw power from the cars system
40l Engel camp lights water pump and some tech charging off the secondary
Driving lights off the primary etc

To date never had a problem.
Adamberger was correct in saying the projector will work but he is stating it will never be 100% efficient. That system will only ever get to around 80% capacity. So your 130amp bat is really only cabable of about 100-110 amps max because it cannot reach its potential while a bcdc charger will.
So basically by using a bcdc charger and smaller battery I’m achieving the same outcome as the projector and bigger battery because of how efficient each system is.
We will both have cold beers your system will just be a lot heavier and take up tray space.

That was a ramble. But I hope it helps.


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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Surfseeker on Sun, 06 May 2018 11:03 +0000

Morning Guys.
So I am also having a hard time deciding on the most suitable dual battery system for my new truck.
I have done as much research as I can and it seems that the only way to effectively charge an auxiliary battery in a Gen 8 is going to be a DCDC charger. No problems there.
However, as far as I can tell a DCDC charger will not have the ability to bypass/link the two batteries to start your car if the primary battery should go flat. I just see this as being a bit dumb. There are dozens of ways that you can flatten your primary battery (As well as it just dying of natural causes :shock: ). I have had it happen a few times over the years where (For example) you leave an interior light on. This sounds like a silly mistake to make but this has happened to me when my wife left the vanity mirror open during the day (You cant see the light so easily during daytime) then got out of the car and left it at the airport for a week. A bit dopey perhaps ...but forgivable.... right???
Anyhow, your stereo, interior lights etc. are powered from your primary battery, so flattening it is by no means impossible.
With a solenoid based dual battery set up you can usually bypass the system to link the two batteries together (temporarily) to start the vehicle. For me, this would be high on my list of priorities.
However, there is not much point in linking the two batteries together if the auxiliary battery is also flat due to the fact that a solenoid based system does not permit the alternator to properly charge it.

So It seems you are stuck with either making a compromise on the ability to charge an auxiliary battery (by using a solenoid).... or making a compromise on the ability to start the vehicle if you have flattened your primary batter (using a DCDC charger),

So as far as I can tell the solution is to go for the DCDC charger, then carry a set of jumper leads so that you can manually link the two batteries if required.

I just struggle with the concept of dropping $1k or so on a dual battery system then having to carry jumper leads to jump start myself!

I am a bit new to this dilemma as I have just upgraded from my beloved 2009 Hilux which didn't have the temperature sensing alternator.... so a solenoid based system worked fine.

So what are you more experienced Gen 8 drivers doing?
Surfseeker
 
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Myralga on Sun, 06 May 2018 11:26 +0000

Surfseeker wrote:Morning Guys.
So I am also having a hard time deciding on the most suitable dual battery system for my new truck.
I have done as much research as I can and it seems that the only way to effectively charge an auxiliary battery in a Gen 8 is going to be a DCDC charger. No problems there.
However, as far as I can tell a DCDC charger will not have the ability to bypass/link the two batteries to start your car if the primary battery should go flat. I just see this as being a bit dumb. There are dozens of ways that you can flatten your primary battery (As well as it just dying of natural causes :shock: ). I have had it happen a few times over the years where (For example) you leave an interior light on. This sounds like a silly mistake to make but this has happened to me when my wife left the vanity mirror open during the day (You cant see the light so easily during daytime) then got out of the car and left it at the airport for a week. A bit dopey perhaps ...but forgivable.... right???
Anyhow, your stereo, interior lights etc. are powered from your primary battery, so flattening it is by no means impossible.
With a solenoid based dual battery set up you can usually bypass the system to link the two batteries together (temporarily) to start the vehicle. For me, this would be high on my list of priorities.
However, there is not much point in linking the two batteries together if the auxiliary battery is also flat due to the fact that a solenoid based system does not permit the alternator to properly charge it.

So It seems you are stuck with either making a compromise on the ability to charge an auxiliary battery (by using a solenoid).... or making a compromise on the ability to start the vehicle if you have flattened your primary batter (using a DCDC charger),

So as far as I can tell the solution is to go for the DCDC charger, then carry a set of jumper leads so that you can manually link the two batteries if required.

I just struggle with the concept of dropping $1k or so on a dual battery system then having to carry jumper leads to jump start myself!

I am a bit new to this dilemma as I have just upgraded from my beloved 2009 Hilux which didn't have the temperature sensing alternator.... so a solenoid based system worked fine.

So what are you more experienced Gen 8 drivers doing?



Simplest and cheapest of the solutions is to carry a set of jumper leads. I personally don’t travel without them anyway.
Same as you I have had batteries die and alternators give up the ghost also.
By the time you pay for a heavy duty relay (150amp plus) for cranking. And heavy duty circuit breakers (because fuses will melt in that situation) and there is no guarantee your deep cycle will have the power in it to start your car. Jumper leads are easy and allows you to start from yourself or anyone else around.


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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby TekTed on Fri, 25 May 2018 7:02 +0000

Hi all. New member here. I installed the Ironman4x4 140A Dual Battery manager and it is working without any problems (http://www.ironman4x4.com/products/dual ... ry-manager). I considered the 40A DC-DC charger from the same company but did not go with it (http://www.ironman4x4.com/products/dual ... ry-charger). I had the 140A unit lying around in the house and thus decided to try it out first before purchasing the DC-DC Charger. When both battery are charging they constantly register around 13.92V for both batteries on the battery monitor.I got photos of my setup somewhere which I will upload later. Cheers.
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby DORMAN12Q on Tue, 21 Aug 2018 5:45 +0000

Can anyone recommend somewhere that sells the ARB battery trays that will ship them to the UK?
Don't need the charging gear , will just parallel with existing battery.
Thanks.
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Myralga on Tue, 21 Aug 2018 6:13 +0000

DORMAN12Q wrote:Can anyone recommend somewhere that sells the ARB battery trays that will ship them to the UK?
Don't need the charging gear , will just parallel with existing battery.
Thanks.


Straight from ARB’s website

ImageImageImage


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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby DORMAN12Q on Wed, 22 Aug 2018 3:37 +0000

Thanks I will give them a bell,
We don't tend to have as many modified trucks as you Lads and we only have the 2.4 engine.
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Myralga on Wed, 22 Aug 2018 6:38 +0000

Understandable. That’s your best bet. Otherwise find a ARB Reseller who is on eBay etc but I would hate to pay the freight it’s a big box 30x30x40 roughly full of empty space.


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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby DORMAN12Q on Thu, 23 Aug 2018 2:10 +0000

If I can't get One in the UK I will see if a few of the lads on the UK Hilux forum fancy clubbing together to buy a few between us to split the postage,
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Sartor on Thu, 15 Nov 2018 4:01 +0000

I am from Europe as well. ARB Europe actually uses their dual battery tray on the RHS and sent me pictures of how they've done it.

I will be doing the setup myself with a BCDC1240D charger and an Optima Yellow Top battery (AGM type) soon and would share pictures - only wondering if it would be OK to setup with a 75Ah (27kg - exceeds the limit by 2kgs) battery instead of 55Ah (19kg).

What do you think?

Also, can I ask somebody to take a photo of the blue wire connection to the ignition? Already read that some of you've connected it due to the "smart" alternator / variable voltage electric system.
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby dave g on Thu, 15 Nov 2018 5:54 +0000

Hi
Sartor have you checked out the blue top there are little lighter. Yellow top are better for starter and winch
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Markdavo on Thu, 04 Jul 2019 10:14 +0000

Surfseeker wrote:Morning Guys.
So I am also having a hard time deciding on the most suitable dual battery system for my new truck.
I have done as much research as I can and it seems that the only way to effectively charge an auxiliary battery in a Gen 8 is going to be a DCDC charger. No problems there.
However, as far as I can tell a DCDC charger will not have the ability to bypass/link the two batteries to start your car if the primary battery should go flat. I just see this as being a bit dumb. There are dozens of ways that you can flatten your primary battery (As well as it just dying of natural causes :shock: ). I have had it happen a few times over the years where (For example) you leave an interior light on. This sounds like a silly mistake to make but this has happened to me when my wife left the vanity mirror open during the day (You cant see the light so easily during daytime) then got out of the car and left it at the airport for a week. A bit dopey perhaps ...but forgivable.... right???
Anyhow, your stereo, interior lights etc. are powered from your primary battery, so flattening it is by no means impossible.
With a solenoid based dual battery set up you can usually bypass the system to link the two batteries together (temporarily) to start the vehicle. For me, this would be high on my list of priorities.
However, there is not much point in linking the two batteries together if the auxiliary battery is also flat due to the fact that a solenoid based system does not permit the alternator to properly charge it.

So It seems you are stuck with either making a compromise on the ability to charge an auxiliary battery (by using a solenoid).... or making a compromise on the ability to start the vehicle if you have flattened your primary batter (using a DCDC charger),

So as far as I can tell the solution is to go for the DCDC charger, then carry a set of jumper leads so that you can manually link the two batteries if required.

I just struggle with the concept of dropping $1k or so on a dual battery system then having to carry jumper leads to jump start myself!

I am a bit new to this dilemma as I have just upgraded from my beloved 2009 Hilux which didn't have the temperature sensing alternator.... so a solenoid based system worked fine.

So what are you more experienced Gen 8 drivers doing?


Surfseeker, what complete system did you install in the end?

Cheers, Mark
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Markdavo on Thu, 04 Jul 2019 11:09 +0000

Myralga wrote:Max if your interested I will throw my 2 cents in here also.

I understand your frustrations on name brands I get that. But a lot of the knowledge in the background doesn’t make it out of the salespersons mouth because simply they don’t understand it. If they don’t have a auto elec trade or atleast mechanic and basic elec. then they are just a pretty face selling you a kit that they have no idea how it operates.

My experience comes from the heavy vehicle industry and I have worked for in the past and still have friends in arb now.

As for the N80 smart tech and canbus most people don’t wanna mess with it that includes me and I did my trade on the junk. Great when it works but don’t mess with it (this is my No1 pet hate of rangers every circuit has a fault sensor in it)
Anyway back to the message at hand.

Winching
I always set up to winch directly from the main start battery. Winches pull huge amps under heavy loads. And really the only device in your car capable of high amp/current output constantly is the alternator. If you set up onto a secondary battery you will basically drain it quicker then a dcdc charger can ever fill it (25 or 40 in 100+ going out it’s simple math) if your using something like an sbi (relay) your never going to get your secondary above 80%.
So winch off main.

As for fridge etc. secondary batteries
Everyone here knows toyota did a recall on their bat tray in the engine bay. Arb upgraded theirs to a 30kg capacity from 25 recently also.
Agm and gels are nice and maintenance free but really don’t like heat and are heavy for their size. There is nothing wrong with the old tech if you maintain the battery.

For me personally this is how I have my set up.
I have the new arb tray with a N70Z size lead acid deep cycle battery. This is 105 amp hr and 25kg all contained under the hood. Redarc BCDC 1225D (solar ready and low voltage trigger left disconnected) is my charger. It’s mounted in front of radiator to improve cooling.
As for solar I have 120w of panel mounted to my roof so the green energy dcdc charger means I hardly (weather permitting) draw power from the cars system
40l Engel camp lights water pump and some tech charging off the secondary
Driving lights off the primary etc

To date never had a problem.
Adamberger was correct in saying the projector will work but he is stating it will never be 100% efficient. That system will only ever get to around 80% capacity. So your 130amp bat is really only cabable of about 100-110 amps max because it cannot reach its potential while a bcdc charger will.
So basically by using a bcdc charger and smaller battery I’m achieving the same outcome as the projector and bigger battery because of how efficient each system is.
We will both have cold beers your system will just be a lot heavier and take up tray space.

That was a ramble. But I hope it helps.

Myralga, thanks for your ramble which was very helpful for me in my research for a DBS to suit my March 2016 SR. What model is your Hilux?

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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Markdavo on Thu, 04 Jul 2019 11:09 +0000

Myralga, thanks for your ramble which was very helpful for me in my research for a DBS to suit my March 2016 SR. What model is your Hilux?
Markdavo
 
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Myralga on Thu, 04 Jul 2019 7:20 +0000

Markdavo wrote:Myralga, thanks for your ramble which was very helpful for me in my research for a DBS to suit my March 2016 SR. What model is your Hilux?


Hey mate.

I have the 2017 SR5 (just before the lockable tailgate upgrade)

Somebody else asked about the blue wire trigger also but never got a response.

So easy spot to pick up a safe and simple 12v switched trigger is:

RHD vehicles on the left side in under the kick panel sort of below and to the left of the glove box is a fuse panel (white in colour with a white door on it) it’s in the owners manual.
Remove the door and use a jumper fuse assembly into the cig sockets fuse.
This is switched, safe and reliable. And if some how you mess it up. Your only blowing the cig fuse not something important like a ECU Fuse or heaven forbid an actual ECU.

By using a jumper fuse correctly (power coming from the correct side you just need to check.) your actually creating an independent fused circuit anyway. so should be nearly impossible to cause damage.

And if you ever have issues in the circuit pull the jumper and it’s back to factory in a matter of seconds for testing.

Also I have had zero trouble with my Redarc BCDC 1225D and I Do Not have the blue wire connected. It works fine all on its own in my case. I cannot speak for other chargers but redarc thresholds as below.

Standard (blue wire NOT Connected)
Turn On Above 13.2V
Turn Off Below 12.7V

Low Voltage (Blue wire Connected to switched trigger)
Turn On Above 12.0V
Turn Off Below 11.9V

So very rare for a vehicle Battery which is fully charged to hold more then 12.6V so 12.69 it’s already off. Watch a multi meter on a vehicle start car and excite the alternator depending on vehicle and alternator expect a reading 13.5 - 14.5 while running is common. Some up to 15v.
When you turn it off the reading will drop quickly to around 12.6 ( healthy battery) so bcdc turns off automatically.

Hope that helps.




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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Markdavo on Fri, 05 Jul 2019 6:38 +0000

Myralga wrote:
Markdavo wrote:Myralga, thanks for your ramble which was very helpful for me in my research for a DBS to suit my March 2016 SR. What model is your Hilux?


Hey mate.

I have the 2017 SR5 (just before the lockable tailgate upgrade)

Somebody else asked about the blue wire trigger also but never got a response.

So easy spot to pick up a safe and simple 12v switched trigger is:

RHD vehicles on the left side in under the kick panel sort of below and to the left of the glove box is a fuse panel (white in colour with a white door on it) it’s in the owners manual.
Remove the door and use a jumper fuse assembly into the cig sockets fuse.
This is switched, safe and reliable. And if some how you mess it up. Your only blowing the cig fuse not something important like a ECU Fuse or heaven forbid an actual ECU.

By using a jumper fuse correctly (power coming from the correct side you just need to check.) your actually creating an independent fused circuit anyway. so should be nearly impossible to cause damage.

And if you ever have issues in the circuit pull the jumper and it’s back to factory in a matter of seconds for testing.

Also I have had zero trouble with my Redarc BCDC 1225D and I Do Not have the blue wire connected. It works fine all on its own in my case. I cannot speak for other chargers but redarc thresholds as below.

Standard (blue wire NOT Connected)
Turn On Above 13.2V
Turn Off Below 12.7V

Low Voltage (Blue wire Connected to switched trigger)
Turn On Above 12.0V
Turn Off Below 11.9V

So very rare for a vehicle Battery which is fully charged to hold more then 12.6V so 12.69 it’s already off. Watch a multi meter on a vehicle start car and excite the alternator depending on vehicle and alternator expect a reading 13.5 - 14.5 while running is common. Some up to 15v.
When you turn it off the reading will drop quickly to around 12.6 ( healthy battery) so bcdc turns off automatically.

Hope that helps.




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Thanks. After reading quite a few articles in the past few days I'm leaning towards the Redarc BCDC 1225D rather than the Projecta.
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Markdavo on Fri, 05 Jul 2019 6:41 +0000

Myralga wrote:Max if your interested I will throw my 2 cents in here also.



For me personally this is how I have my set up.
I have the new arb tray with a N70Z size lead acid deep cycle battery. This is 105 amp hr and 25kg all contained under the hood. Redarc BCDC 1225D (solar ready and low voltage trigger left disconnected) is my charger. It’s mounted in front of radiator to improve cooling.
As for solar I have 120w of panel mounted to my roof so the green energy dcdc charger means I hardly (weather permitting) draw power from the cars system
40l Engel camp lights water pump and some tech charging off the secondary
Driving lights off the primary etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you install the ARB tray yourself? Easy or difficult?
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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Rogue on Fri, 05 Jul 2019 2:01 +0000

Markdavo wrote:Did you install the ARB tray yourself? Easy or difficult?


They're easy to install mate, I fitted mine last weekend, hardest part would be the wheel arch liner, just fiddling around with taking that out. The rest is all just nuts and bolts
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Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Myralga on Sun, 07 Jul 2019 7:07 +0000

Yeah I built my entire ute. (I’m a mechanic and had a lot of elec training)
Only thing I didn’t do was install the tires on the rims.
I’m short I had trouble with one bolt from memory (trying to hold bolt and put but on my other side) get the missus/kid/mate to help if you can’t reach.
Other then that it’s easy as mate.
As stated hard part is the wheel arch liner.


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Re: Gen 8 Dual Battery Kits and Setups

Postby Sartor on Wed, 17 Jul 2019 1:17 +0000

Here is our setup (available subtitles in English), for a 2.4 EU model:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QZYu925eUY

Pretty straight forward kitting:

- RedArc BCDC1240D with a front-grill installation. After the video, I've put back the plastic - cut it to see the BCDC indicators, covered with a transparent plastic glass. Fixed the Anderson plug on the front grill and weather proof its back with silicon. Additionally, modified the cover with liquid rubber to make it more tight.
- ARB battery tray, had to make some customizations to fit for the EU model (we feature the lame AdBlue bull*it which reduces our space on the driver side - EU driver side).
- Custom-made 12V panel with possibility for extensions of the sockets or even electrical terminals to connect another battery placed in the tray if needed.
- No invertor, but could be added on another set of cables. Probably, if needed, I could go with a battery box instead.
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