Hilux Brakes

[helmut79]

by leggy on Thu, 25 Nov 2010 8:24 +0000
does everyones poor brake performance include, when you go to get on them hard and fast they grab,give way,grab,give way,sort of like a shudder feel under your foot..?????

Mate, ABS caused so many accidents when first introduced as most people took their foot off the brake when that "shudder" was felt under their foot. You should always do an emergency stop when you first get a new vehicle to see what happens/how the car behaves.

[Jack S]

Thats your ABS, the abs system uses pulse generation when you apply the brakes which in-turn stops your brakes from locking up, which is the purpose of the abs system!

[Drew]

And its only designed for use on road. If gravel or muddy TURN IT OFF !!!!! The guys wrote off 3 d-max and one hilux at work before they changed their policy. 50m to stop at 40kph... not goood.

[Noidea]

And its only designed for use on road. If gravel or muddy TURN IT OFF !!!!! The guys wrote off 3 d-max and one hilux at work before they changed their policy. 50m to stop at 40kph... not goood.

I dont mind my abs in the gravel or mud. Still seems to stop my car fine

[Jack S]

It all depends on how loose the gravel is or how much/how sloppy the mud is, the abs may work the opposite it's supposed to in some conditions! Because of the on/off pulsing effect it has on road to stop locking up of the brakes, which in turn stops the uncontrolled skidding that a non-abs vehicle has, in some conditions this pulsing effect may actually cause the vehicle to slightly lock up in one wheel or multiply wheels depending on the brake application...

[ultimate]

So without further fanfare the answer was.....not the braking system at all but bloody wheel bearings!!!!
How so?
If your wheel bearings are not within spec it allows a degree of movement in your wheels as they rotate. This in turn can cause the rotor to push agaisnt the pads and in turn push the pistons back into calipers. Next time you apply the brakes it takes one pump to get the pistons to effecively reposition the pads where they should be, then another to start stopping the car!!!

I know it's a bit late, but what you experienced is called pad knock off. It's not too common on street vehicles but you hear about it a lot in racing. As you said, the pads get pushed back into the piston and you have to double pump the pedal to get them to work. That's why rally drivers will push on the pedal before reaching a corner to ensure the pads are back in place for when they need them. I wish I had of read this thread earlier to maybe help you out

With the rear disc rotor conversion, is everybody upgrading the master cylinder at the same time? It’s my understanding that fitting rear disc calipers will result in a low brake pedal because of the additional fluid displacement required by the larger caliper pistons. To counteract this you would need an upgraded master cylinder with a fast flow valve like on the Prado.

[leggy]

And its only designed for use on road. If gravel or muddy TURN IT OFF !!!!! The guys wrote off 3 d-max and one hilux at work before they changed their policy. 50m to stop at 40kph... not goood.

how do you turn it off....

[matske]

Ok I'm fed up with my crap brakes nearly smashed it doin 100 kmh today can somebody please tell me exactly what I need to bye to do the prado upgrade I have the 17 inch prado rims already . And is Toyota the best place to bye all the brake bits at ? Cheers

[Jack S]

Matske, mate get onto monster rides, I am sure he sells a prado brake upgrade!!

[Hilux Max]

Ok I'm fed up with my crap brakes nearly smashed it doin 100 kmh today can somebody please tell me exactly what I need to bye to do the prado upgrade I have the 17 inch prado rims already . And is Toyota the best place to bye all the brake bits at ? Cheers

Matske, mate get onto monster rides, I am sure he sells a prado brake upgrade!!

Matske, MR is working on a brake upgrade thou am not sure when this will be ready.

What you will need to do the Prado Brake Upgrade is the following......I recommend going to a Toyota Wrecker to get them as genuine prices will make it waaay too expensive...I have been quote 120 bux per caliper from some wreckers. Genuine Toyota price is $700 per caliper

RHF Prado 120 Brake Caliper
Part Number = 4773060261

LHF Prado 120 Brake Caliper
Part Number = 4775060261

Caliper Brake Cylinder Rebuild Kit - New Seals etc
Part Number = 0447860050

RHF Rotor Backing Plate - not compulsory
Part Number = 4778160120

LHF Rotor Backing Plate
Part Number = 4778260120

RHF "Brake Tube N0.4" - this is a small brake tube required for fitment that runs off the Prado calipers
Part Number = 4731435320

LHF "Brake Tube N0.6" - this is a small brake tube required for fitment that runs off the Prado calipers
Part Number = 4731635280

Prado 120 Front Disc Rotor
Part Number = 4351260151

I reccomend going to a dealer for those parts, depending on the condition of the calipers, then get a Genuine Seal Kit to rebuild them. Bring a set of Verniers to the wrecker and you may be lucky to find some good condition factory disc rotors that will be perfect after a slight machining.

That should help you and anyone else.

[jap]

Has anyone actually DONE the rear disc conversion?

I've never locked up the rears and I think if it's going to happen to anyone, it'd probably be me.
the rear drums seem to work fine, so maybe its for mud/water retention purposes?

[matske]

Max thanks for all that just what I needed ! Your the man

[ultimate]

Are you guys upgrading the master cylinder at the same time? A vehicle running 4 wheel disc rotors needs to have a master cylinder with a fast fill valve to cope with the larger fluid displacement created by the larger calliper pistons. With out it, you will most probably find a very low brake pedal and won't be getting the most out of the upgrade. The mod also requires engineering for anybody who is serious about it.

As Jap said, I believe most of the problems are related to mud, water and adjustment. We have had no problems with our rear drums and found the vehicle's braking performance is fantastic just with upgraded pads and rotors in the front. This is all we do even on armoured hiluxs weighing 4tonnes. The vehicle's pass all the brake tests and are much safer to drive.

[Hilux Max]

Brendan, Im assuming when your reffering to upgrading the master cylinder that your reffering to rear disc conversions yeah? I agree in that case.....

But just for the Prado front brake upgrade an upgrade of the master cylinder isnt required and it isnt required to get engineered as it was supplied on a hilux from factory.

The TRD Hilux for those that may be interested ran the Prado120 front brakes and the master cylinder was the same as the stock one on SR and SR5 hilux's....

Its just a matter of upgrading your wheels to 17" diameter to clear.

Brendan, Id be interested to hear what you guys upgrade the front pads and rotors with for future reference? Im assuming the same rotor diameter as standard so 15's can still fit yes?

[ultimate]

Hi Max,

Yeah the Master cylinder is required for the rear disc conversion. I'm sorry I thought that's what you guys were talking about.

I've been speaking with helmut and a few other newhilux members about running a front brake system upgrade like we have on the Triton forum. The improvement is quite dramatic when you upgrade to good quality rotor and pad combination together with a complete brake fluid flush. We usually stick to the same rotor size but use DBAs which are an awesome aftermarket rotor. For most general applications we would run a DBA2714SL & SR 4x4 series Rotors. These slotted rotors incorporate directional slotting which clears friction gases and reduces the chance of brake-fade (particularly when towing or under heavy load). The DBA Slotted rotors also outperform standard rotors in off road conditions by providing more pad bite and quickly expelling water and mud after river crossings. These replacements also incorporate the innovative Kangaroo Paw design runs cooler, is stronger, and outperforms traditional straight vane disc brake rotors. For more information, watch this YouTube video-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PzWFn6lGBs

For the pads, we would use a Bendix DB1739 4WD. These pads are designed to provide great on road feel and be extremely tough for off road applications. They are a good all round pad and suit most 4wds.

If you want a high performance brake upgrade or are carrying serious loads; you can look at the same option we use on the armoured vehicles. This would consist of DBA42714 rotors and Bendix ULTIMATE Brake Pads. This upgrade is a lot more resistant to high temperatures and dramatically improves the braking performance.

As mentioned earlier, I have been speaking with DBA and Bendix about running a group buy for the Hilux forum. Once enough stock is available, I will start it up under our section. We are international distributors for both brands and will be able to work out some awesome prices for a few different options

I personally believe that an upgraded Hilux rotor and pad will be far better than an original Prado rotor. If I was to go for a larger rotor and calliper, I would still be going aftermarket.

[cjcmjc]

This is great.... Where do we start?

[jap]

Anyone do slotted rotors for the Prado and how easy are they to swap out?

[ultimate]

This is great.... Where do we start?

I will start a small group buy this coming week. I've been wanting to do this for while but have been limited by available stock. As you can imagine the Hilux rotors sell like hot cakes.

Anyone do slotted rotors for the Prado and how easy are they to swap out?

Slotted rotors are available for the Prado in both 4x4 series and 4000 series. They are a direct replacement rotor and require no extra parts for a Prado. As mentioned earlier, if you are upgrading the standard Hilux rotors to the Prado ones, you will need to get the extra components Max was speaking about.

I personally haven't looked at the TRD brakes and they aren't catalogued. If you are positive they are the same as the Prado, it will be a straight swap over. Pretty easy to do as they should also be a floating rotor. The best way to do it is actually measure the rotor and compare. DBA's website has a comprehensive listing of all the rotors and measurements.
http://dba.com.au/product-search

The 2010 Spec, SR5 hilux (with the upgraded brakes) actually runs an FJ Cruiser Rotor. Performance upgrades are also available for these.

[jap]

Cheers mate, I had a look and they are at least the same diameter.

Stay tuned

[Hilux Max]

Jap, they are 200% the same...trust me