NewHilux.net

Hi everyone, fairly new to the forum. I have just purchased a new 2013 sr5 turbo diesel dual cab, these new hiluxs come with stability and traction control. I have been told these new models don't have a rear LSD fitted because it interferes with the traction/stability control... I believe this make the choise very simple, the Arb air locker is the only option, well only a locker that can be switched on or off anyways.

my 2011 has VSC TSC etc and i have an autolocker

No issues except, you can't do donuts unless you disable the electronics

Max had a pretty good suggestion, you can reseal the driveway and there are products available like sand and even fine glass that act as an anti slip property, just mix them thru the sealer. Might be worth a go first before forking out the big bucks.

ive been reading up on locker and lsd . and found out our diff can take any g series diff such as a supra lsd.. that opens up a lot of options for aftermarket lsd that are superior to our piece pf shit diff

packeteer wrote:my 2011 has VSC TSC etc and i have an autolocker

No issues except, you can't do donuts unless you disable the electronics

sounds like you have first hand experience with this

lolz Rod, you know I do!

btw, I reckon the OP should just keep a few sandbags at the bottom of the driveway for those times he's too light

packeteer wrote:lolz Rod, you know I do!

btw, I reckon the OP should just keep a few sandbags at the bottom of the driveway for those times he's too light

Could mount a winch in the garage with a remote, unhook when he leaves in the morning and hook back up for a ascent when he gets back home.

kyle300exc wrote:

packeteer wrote:lolz Rod, you know I do!

btw, I reckon the OP should just keep a few sandbags at the bottom of the driveway for those times he's too light

Could mount a winch in the garage with a remote, unhook when he leaves in the morning and hook back up for a ascent when he gets back home.

By far the most practical idea yet

carn, where's the challenge in that?!?

kyle300exc wrote:

packeteer wrote:lolz Rod, you know I do!

btw, I reckon the OP should just keep a few sandbags at the bottom of the driveway for those times he's too light

Could mount a winch in the garage with a remote, unhook when he leaves in the morning and hook back up for a ascent when he gets back home.

Yeah Craig I know, it was funny watching you work it out though You did redeem yourself on the next trip with a nice quick change from 1st to 2nd mid doughnut for that awesome rear wheel speed throughout the hellies

Kyle, I do have a winch bolted to the floor of my garage Used it to winch the boat up my very steep driveway when I owned a POS Ford XR6 Turbo

time heals all wounds Rod you obviously just need a bit more

no it was just a POS Ford. There's not enough time in this world to heal those wounds.

Rocket55 wrote:On road use get the LSD, for off road use look at the locker. Pretty straight forward.

Pretty straight forward advice, thanks Rocket.

Ok, Detroit vs ARB vs Eaton.

I've had a number of vehicles with a Detroit locker in the rear. There pros & cons with each, but personally I think the Detroit is better for most users in a REAR fitment. I am not a hard-core off roader, more a tourer, and certainly mostly a week-end warrior, using my cars for commuting in Melbourne.

Most vehicles today come with a rear LSD. This is a good thing & provides good traction on road, or on slippery surfaces where most people would not want to use 4WD. A manual locker is a backwards step here, as you lose all LSD function in the rear. Given that most vehicles are driven on-road for the bulk of their use, this is not useful. I like to think of my Detroit as a really positive / aggressive LSD.

An ARB locker requires three systems to be functioning - mechanical (the gears/diff) electrical (to run the compressor) and pneumatic (to actuate the diff). The mechanical part never fails, but the other two can. A ripped out air line, or worse, a failed compressor, will see you back to an open diff, possibly with no way to repair it. The eaton is better in this regard - just a twin-core wire that could be repaired easily, for the most part - but the Detroit is purely mechanical, with a good record in reliability.

The Detroit will get you through most obstacles before you even realise you needed it, whereas a manual locker requires a degree of decision-making. Make the wrong one & you may lose momentum, or end up in a situation that may be difficult to recover from. Usually not a big deal, but it's one more thing to think about. Some guys say "I like to have the control" but getting stuck in something because you didn't think you needed to lock in isn't a great look either.

There is some impact on driveability, but not as much as most people think. In a large wagon, it's almost imperceptible - more felt through your backside than through the steering wheel. It is at it's worst at very slow, full-lock maneuvers - IE car parks, etc. At speed on bitumen, it's essentially not a problem. It is important to keep tyre pressures equal on the axel, and always run with same diameter tyres. The longer the wheel-base, the less you feel it, with a slight exception - the light rear of an unladen ute can also exacerbate it, but dual-cabs utes with a canopy, drawers, etc, are good. As I said, I commute with them, it's simply not a problem.

The ARB locker was a great invention, and is still a great product, but at the time it emerged, the Detroit was a fairly crude device, with harsh lock/unlock characteristics. There have been a number of improvements to driveability of the Detroit, and the versions from ~ 15 years ago onwards are very easy to live with.

I honestly believe the benefits of a Detroit FAR outweigh the cons of an ARB locker - losing the LSD function is a big loss for a vehicle that is mostly used on road.

For a front fitment, the situation is very much reversed & I prefer a manual locker up front, but that's for a separate post........

Great writeup Wombat.

I was seriously considering the Detroit for the rear of my hilux and had one 2nd hand lined up ready to go, but was convinced that the ARB rear locker would be better for daily driving duties....which it is.

But I miss my LSD driving daily.

The open rear diff DOES help you NOT slide out on a wet roundabout type of scenario (beleive me I tried multiple times but only the inside tyre spins).

End of the day, its a comprimise.

But yeah, Id go a detroit if I was gonna do it again, and the new ones are alot more silent.

What is the big loss for losing the LSD on a vehicle used mostly on road? I couldn't even tell I had an LSD, on or off road. Is the loss that you can't do burnouts as good and that the inside wheel can spin? Hardly a big loss.

outbackjoe wrote:What is the big loss for losing the LSD on a vehicle used mostly on road? I couldn't even tell I had an LSD, on or off road. Is the loss that you can't do burnouts as good and that the inside wheel can spin? Hardly a big loss.

A big benefit of LSD is that both wheels will (ideally) have power instead of it all going to a single wheel in low traction conditions.
I have a single cab with only a very light load on the aluminium tray at the moment and my LSD is pretty well shot. In the wet, I've got to drive very carefully because if I find myself stopped on a hill at a set of lights it can be very difficult to get going again. In this situation, a correctly working LSD would assist greatly.

an lsd wont help much when you are stopped at the lights because you are on an even surface and both wheels are on the same type of surface. Both wheels have similar traction, the fact that traction is low is not relevant. Without an lsd one wheel may start spinning first due to the marginal difference in traction but the spin occurs when both wheels are almost about to start spinning anyway, because there is very little traction difference. LSDs (or diff lockers) make a significant difference when there is a significant difference in traction.

In a perfect world where everything is equal - then yes in that situation an LSD would provide about the same traction as an open diff.



But the reality is that there is always a difference in traction between driving wheels even on wet tarmac. It may not be much in some cases, but it's still different. Furthermore in an open diff once a single wheel loses traction, it's much the same as a wheel that's being suspended in mid air.

Directly from Wikipedia entry

The main advantage of a limited-slip differential is demonstrated by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential in off-roading situations where one wheel has no contact with the ground. In such a case (with a standard differential), the non-contacting wheel will receive 100% of the power, while the contacting wheel will remain stationary. The torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, and therefore, will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the wheel with traction. In this situation, a limited-slip differential prevents 100% of the power from being allocated to one wheel, and thereby keeping both wheels in powered rotation.

The wikipedia reference supports my case that an lsd or diff locker only make a significant difference when the difference in traction is significant. How does the wikipedia reference relate to when wheels have almost the same traction? Not sure what your point was.

I'm not disputing that lsds can make a difference during normal road driving. I just don't think it's a "big loss." For most people it wouldn't make much difference for a daily driver. Actually I'd prefer an open diff for a pure daily driver vehicle - save some tyre wear and one less thing to maintain.