NewHilux.net

I get what your saying and know where you're coming from. I agree with you in that an open wheel will provide about the same amount of traction, but this is only true until traction is lost at one wheel.
It comes down to friction between the tyres and the surface. It takes a certain amount of energy to break that traction, but once it's been broken it takes far less energy to keep it going, hence my comment above:
"in an open diff once a single wheel loses traction, it's much the same as a wheel that's being suspended in mid air."

You're right in that it isn't a big loss, but it does have more benefits than being able to do burnouts.

outbackjoe wrote:The wikipedia reference supports my case that an lsd or diff locker only make a significant difference when the difference in traction is significant. How does the wikipedia reference relate to when wheels have almost the same traction? Not sure what your point was.

I'm not disputing that lsds can make a difference during normal road driving. I just don't think it's a "big loss." For most people it wouldn't make much difference for a daily driver. Actually I'd prefer an open diff for a pure daily driver vehicle - save some tyre wear and one less thing to maintain.

If your vehicle is Only driven on bitumen in dry conditions or not ever towing anything yeh open wheel diff is probly all you need.

so that rules out the average hilux driver on here..

We are talking bitumen only, for the case where an air locker is installed. I don't think having an open diff on bitumen should be a big consideration when deciding on type of locker. Heck I'd rather have one wheel drive if it was available for bitumen to save some fuel and wear.

outbackjoe wrote:We are talking bitumen only, for the case where an air locker is installed. I don't think having an open diff on bitumen should be a big consideration when deciding on type of locker. Heck I'd rather have one wheel drive if it was available for bitumen to save some fuel and wear.

Sorry mate what would be the calculated costs between 2 identical vehicles one with open diff one with and LSD.
for a predetermined time...
I seriously cant see any cost savings,If anything at all an LSD fitted with reduce loss of traction could save tyres on take of and tight turns in slippery conditions.
They just make the vehicle way more versatile and allow to drive in various conditions with less effort on other drive train components.
They dont fit them in cars for fun.

For those thinking about air locker vs electrical locker just keep this in mind.
Last trip I went on my compressor failed, the seals on the actual compressor cylinder started leaking and after a few hours I had now lockers front or rear. This wouldn't have happened if they were electrical driven. In saying that I can't fault the ARB air lockers as they were bullet proof to me apart from when the aircompressor died. Had to fit a brand new one just as I placed the Hilux on sale

Sorry Joe, but an open diff will 99% of the time only spin 1 wheel even on wet or dry tar when both wheel have essential the same levels of available traction. Drive line torque and chassis flex will always see 1 wheel favoured. This I know from real word experience. Anytime I go near the throttle in the wet in 1st, 2nd and even 3rd gear will result in a stupid 1 wheel burnout and me nit going very well. Although back off slightly, float the driveline, flick the rear E-locker and jump back on the loud pedal and she rockets forward spinning both wheels in a nice sideways action. Hey but at least I'm going somewhere and not just sitting almost stationary spinning 1 wheel.

In saying that, I've learnt to drive accordingly and wouldn't change anything given the ultimate off road advantages the locker provides.

Wow what a read.......a dozen pages between two threads on Manual Diff locks...ARB Air....., Eaton E locker.....LSD....open diff......and auto lockers......

The front diff I believe is an open diff any way so a manual locker is the go there ...........

So it seems that your rear manual lockers are open diffs until you actually lock them in, but you cant run them locked all the time off road as it places heaps of pressure and wear on the drive train ........

So auto lockers in the rear give 100% traction off road but require careful driving around town as they tend to bind up a bit on sharp corners and don't even attempt a three point turn .....

So I've come to the conclusion that it is an E locker for the front so I can control when I need it and an Auto locker for the back so I never have an open diff off road ....

So who has tested this set up over a period of time? Love to hear your feed back

Just thought I would add I run air front and rear my brother runs in his 70 Detroit rear air front and he will not let wife drive it ( to scary for the wife)

Richolux150 wrote:Wow what a read.......a dozen pages between two threads on Manual Diff locks...ARB Air....., Eaton E locker.....LSD....open diff......and auto lockers......

The front diff I believe is an open diff any way so a manual locker is the go there ...........

So it seems that your rear manual lockers are open diffs until you actually lock them in, but you cant run them locked all the time off road as it places heaps of pressure and wear on the drive train ........

So auto lockers in the rear give 100% traction off road but require careful driving around town as they tend to bind up a bit on sharp corners and don't even attempt a three point turn .....

So I've come to the conclusion that it is an E locker for the front so I can control when I need it and an Auto locker for the back so I never have an open diff off road ....

So who has tested this set up over a period of time? Love to hear your feed back

Im running and Eaton e-locker (due to the usual air leak dramas most have) in the front of mine with a Eaton tru-trac in the rear and find its a great set up ,does not lock up unexpectedly,Unless you really push it, its great for towing in slippery conditions(2wd lo-range is next) and it has never caught me out nor my misses in the wet on road,and off road whilst not a full locker found its very helpfull and better than the stock LSD by far, when the going gets too tuff , I lock the front diff in.
I would definitely go with this set up again in my next vehicle

I agree with Richos reasoning and with SRD4Ds solution, with the proviso that we are talking about vehicles without TRC.

The Truetrac has superior torque transfer to most limited slips (I don't know about unobtainium products like Quaife) The Truetrac will not wear as quickly as conventional limos.

If most of your traction issues arise when climbing, there will nearly always be significant weight on both rear wheels for a limo type setup to work really well. Also no stress and strain, no decision to be made about when to lock/unlock, and it is working for you (quietly and unnoticed) 100% of the time - on road and off.

I have untested doubts about combining a Truetrac, or any limo, with TRC, as I think that the two may get confused as they both try to do the same thing in different ways. Maybe an E Locker in the back with TRC and then the TRC simply doesn't try to do anything for that end when the locker is on.

Detroits continue to be misunderstood. They are locked when both driven wheels are travelling at the same speed. They unlock when cornering by allowing the outside wheel to ratchet/freewheel and travel faster than the inside wheel. This puts 100% of the torque being applied to the inside wheel, which is also the one with the least weight on it when cornering. The ratcheting/unlocking is very smooth and quiet in the current models, which are something like third or fourth generation of the product

If things are a bit slippery, or car is grunty, or being driven by WIAH (woman in a hurry ), it is very easy to break traction on the inside wheel when turning. As soon as the inside spinning wheel is turning at the same speed as the outside wheel the Detroit relocks. When it relocks maybe it wriggles a bit, maybe it spins both wheels a bit, but that is how it happens. Be sensible with the right pedal and you should have no problems. All that said, I would much prefer a Truetrac in the rear if I did not have TRC.

We have no choice with our luxes in the front, as there is no front fitment for either Trutrac or Detroit. Further, my understanding of the ADD is that one front axle is spinning all the time ? To use a Detroit in the front, it is desirable to have ALL those whirling bits disconnected by freewheeling hubs, then you won't even know its there on road. Off road far better than a manually operated lock (steering, no decisions needed, etc)

Thanks for the comments guys, that's exactly the feed back I was after.....experience with the proposed set up

I'm surprised there's been no mention of the Yukon Grizzly. Works in a similar fashion to the Detroit.

There was a group buy a while back, so there are a few members with them (and front elockers).

I only have the Grizzly for now, and may never bother with a front locker

Yep.....was just quoted $1450 plus $400 fitment for the Detroit Locker

Just saw the Grizzly for $800 online with free shipping Just need some smart bastard to install for me

wow! can't believe how expensive the Detroit is

Richolux150 wrote:Yep.....was just quoted $1450 plus $400 fitment for the Detroit Locker

Seems a lot. Did you check with Locked Drive Systems for a price ?

Checking a few places around Brizzy and the Goldy for prices, but will need someone talented to install as well

Its quite amazing a thread I started 5 years ago is still running. Interesting though for all of the reported problems that my ARB air lockers fitted not long afterwards are still going strong. Matty from Monster Rides did me a good deal, so the cheque book won the argument. I did choose an alternative air compressor (blue tongue) due to reported reliability issues on the ARB ones at the time. I know my compressor is good for 15 years. If the compressor does fail, I have 9 litres of air to get me home.

The seals are still holding up and I never remember to engage them monthly as recommended. The air line at the rear is one of ARB's heavy duty ones which is next to impossible to damage and the front one is tucked away above bash guards. I think there is a lot in the fitting of the air lockers and tend to agree seal issues must be related to installation errors.

Most issues I have seen with air lockers on the track have been electrical issues, usually poorly installed wiring or failed relays.

Richolux150 wrote:Just saw the Grizzly for $800 online with free shipping Just need some smart bastard to install for me

I haven't checked prices for a while, but my recollection is that Detroit Lockers are well under A$1000 in the US.

Don't know if your online Grizzly price is Aus or US. Hope I'm not stating the obvious , but whatever options you are looking at, make sure you do your price comparo in the same market.

Curiosity got the better of me - just checked. A$990 in Australia for a Detroit Locker. Still more expensive than a Grizzly in Australia, but way less than A$1450.

Mmmmm...seems $1450 is a blatant rip off ......where did you find that price Nice Bloke