Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

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Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby rodw on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:49 +0000

Hi guys,

Who has got any thoughts about the pros and cons between the Detroit Auto Locker and the ARB Air locker for the rear end. I know the Detroit is a much stronger design than the other auto lockers as it has it's own carrier like the ARB one. There does not seem to be any argument between them both in relation to reliability.

The reason I ask is that I know these facts that point to Detroit being better:
1. Detroit rear and ARB front is a popular combination in the US (where the Detroit might have a price advantage)
2. No air seals or O-rings to blow on the Detroit so more reliable as no additional maintenance.
3. Recent mag review of an ex-rally driver with a Hilux tourer with Detroit rear and ARB front locker. Why?
4. Auto unlocking design does not compromise traction from stock LSD when 4WD not engaged like an ARB open diff would
5. Proven design, an equal to ARB
6. You could slip it in and the Missus would never know!

Downside of the Detroit is:
1. Need to remember to take the foot off on corners (which I do anyway) otherwise tyres will chirp. One tight corner off a give way sign on the way to work makes my tyres chirp with the stock LSD anyway!
2. I live in the city and drive into the CBD so the ARB open diff might be kinder to my tyres!

So how about tossing in your thoughts on this subject. I'll be particularly be interested in what Bull has to say as he has some experience with the Detroits I think.
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Possum on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:05 +0000

I had one in an FJ cruiser Detroit that is, just a couple of other points to consider
Tyres do wear faster but marginal with the detroit you have to be alot more careful about equal tyre pressures
and also equal Diameter eg spare just incase you got a flat
You do get a bit off rear end stear espesially if traction isn't 100% eg dirt, wet roads you basically drive with a locked rear end
I went with the air locker this time but the detroit didn't have any other issues and did the job
You won't forget to engage or disengage the detroit
I would suggest taking one for a drive before you put a detroit in to have a feel for it
The problem with doin' nothing is that you never know when youre finished
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Dluxv6 on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:12 +0000

Rod
actually rang a mate yesterday he owns Southern Differentials in the ACT re very same question.
Pros and cons were discussed with regards to same questions you have raised and i have decided to go for an ARB locker over Detroit.We did discuss front as well , detroit will work in SR5 front but not SR.Going front air locker will half the stress placed on front diff (contrary to what most will tell you)
Detroit will cost slightly more.then there is issue re driving style and particulrly with the other half driving 4wd some times.
I owned a XB GT with rear detroit locker great in the wet but sometimes it was a real pain in the backside
Talking to Camwill yesterday showed up that my LSD and some others are not working at all even though are only 2 years old, ie get vehicle crossed up in ruts and you go no where, LSD not working at all
So as i have Arb compressor installed already and having had a shorty with front and rear air lockers it has made me go ARB air locker for the hilux rear and in time maybe front as well
ARB quoted $1600 installed for rear and $1740 for the front as i have compressor already

Cheers Drew
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Hilux Max on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 1:34 +0000

Rod,

I do beleive for offroading the Detroit Rear / ARB Front is better, but the problem for most of us is that we drive our hilux alot on the street.....so in that sense the ARB rear is better......

The Detroit is better in that you dont have problems with seals and air lines coming off that ARB lockers can have from time to time......

Personally, when Im ready, I think I will go ARB rear, but that will also depend how much Im driving the hilux when I decide to get it.

DLUXV6, yes, the ARB locker does strengthen the front crown and pinion from everything I have heard and read aswell....it hold the C&P Gears better on the housing, not allowing them to flex at all as the factory one can and are able to....this is where most people blow diffs....its from giving the factory centres a hard time, the gears flex slightly and chip leading to failure.

The downside is in a locked front end that you put alot more strain on your CV's....especially when turning the wheel, so the front locker should be used sparingly, only when needed....if you need to turn the wheel and power on, try first with it disengaged........

another reason why many go rear locker first before front if given the choice.....but front locker with a "working" rear lsd is a good setup too.
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Dluxv6 on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 2:25 +0000

MMaaxx

bit bewildered as to why LSD has given up the ghost already after two years or is it that the clutch pack is losing grip
whats with me and anything with clutches in it :shock: :shock:
although it doesn't affect me and crutches though :lol: :lol:

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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby 9W6VX on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 2:52 +0000

Drew,

Toyota's LSD are notoriously known for giving up the ghost after a few years unlike Nissan's LSD's which are still useful after a few years.

You can tighten up the clutch pack though.
Cheers

Brendon
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Hilux Max on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 2:53 +0000

Toyota LSD's aren't reknowned for longevity......I'd say the clutch packs are worn......you can get a diff specialist to tighten them up...some fit a solid spacer instead of the one that is there so its much tighter.....you gotta work out if it worth pulling the diff apart to do it....

I wonder if you can claim a worn LSD under warranty?

havent heard of anyone ever claiming it.
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby shane308 on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 4:21 +0000

rodw, the ex rally driver your talking about is actually doug67 and he used to be a very active member on this forum, from memory there was quite a bit of discussion and a good few pics while doug was having the detroit fitted, you might be able to dig up an old post or two about it.
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby rodw on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 6:51 +0000

shane308 wrote:rodw, the ex rally driver your talking about is actually doug67 and he used to be a very active member on this forum, from memory there was quite a bit of discussion and a good few pics while doug was having the detroit fitted, you might be able to dig up an old post or two about it.


Thanks mate, I might do a bit of searching for his posts.

All good feedback and ideas. Thanks guys!

I think Max has hit the nail on the head and I was thinking of this during the day after reading the first couple of replies. While the Detroit might be good if you live in the bush like Bull, I live in the city and drive 25 km each way to work from the city edge to near CBD and never get the time to go off road enough as I would like. Under my circumstances, I would probably be better off going with the ARB in the rear. Still like the idea of the Detroit though so don't stop throwing the ideas and feedback into this thread...
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Diegothecat on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 7:04 +0000

Im very keen on the detriot locker as i really dont want to loose my positive drive on the road, i hate driving and opened wheeled car espeally in the wet, and hey i like goin sideways in a 2 tone 4x4.

Just trying to find one at a good price. Let me know how you go rod as im in brissy too.

Iv been lookin at usa sites but all they show is the tundra does anyone know if they use the same diff as we do??
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby rodw on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 7:20 +0000

Diego. Talk to Tony at http://www.difflap.com.au/ he has a Detroit in a Hi Ace van or something as a work car. Based at Kedron I think. $1250 for the locker similar to the ARB one.
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Diegothecat on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 7:43 +0000

was that installed???
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby olcoolone on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 7:48 +0000

Great topic, Rod I am having the same problem trying to work out which way to go.

The Lokka diff is in the lead at the moment due to simplicity and I don't have to worry about engaging it when it is needed.

It's not the cost that bothers me it's whether I can live with it day in and day out.

The question is drivability in 4wd low, high and 2wd.

Was looking at going rear first then a front.
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Bull on Tue, 14 Jul 2009 7:48 +0000

The trouble with any auto locker is you have to adjust your driving style. It does make the car less user friendly so your misses may not like the rear steer effect or the clicking noise as the dog teeth ratchet around. To the novice, it sounds like your've got a serious mechanical problem but after living with a full blown Detroit for the last 10 years I can tell you the noise doesn't hurt anything.
Definately test drive a Detroit equipped car before you put one in your daily driver. They're a savage performance accessory that's been around for 40 years and perfect for hard-core off-roading but would probably drive the weekend warrior crazy. That's why manual lockers are so much more popular. If you can put up with leaking o-rings, tearing out air-lines or wiring and a compressor cutting in and out inside the cab (you do mount your 12volt compressors inside the cab don't you?) and getting bogged because you forget to turn your lockers on then a manual locker would be the way to go.
Another unconsidered option is the softlocker. They come with a variety of names like Lock-Rite, Ezy-Locker, Aussie-Locker, Lokka and I think Eaton has one too. While not as fundamentally strong as a full blown Detroit they offer the same traction but with a whole lot less noice and interferance. I have one in an FJ40 and another in an FJ73 soon to swapped into a BJ42. I love them and want one in everthing.
Again, make sure you test drive one before you buy, it may not be what you want.

Oh, and I've got a Detroit sitting on the backseat of my new 'lux just begging to get slotted in.
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby rodw on Wed, 15 Jul 2009 3:53 +0000

Diegothecat wrote:was that installed???


No
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Squid_87 on Fri, 17 Jul 2009 6:21 +0000

Whats involved in installing a front and rear locker? Is it as simple as replacing the diff centre? Or is it a complete new assembly including a new driveshaft yoke?
Cheers,
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby McSumWay on Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38 +0000

They open the diff housing, remove the diff carrier and take off the crown wheel. The ARB unit replaces the diff carrier with the locking version. The crown wheel is reattached and the whole lot is reinstalled into the housing. The housing is also tapped with a thread for the airline to go through. Then the airlines are run to the compressor and the switches into the dash.

Not a lot of difference for the Detroit just no tapped hole for airlines and no compressor, airlines and switches.

The diff housing, driveshaft yoke in fact everything apart from the diff centre remains the same.

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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby ALFY on Sat, 18 Jul 2009 1:08 +0000

Hey Bull, how does the softlocker work then, is it like having a really tight lsd? A guy i know has custom shimmed lsd in his nissan and it seems to be a winner, bit rough on tyres screwing around in carparks and such but no noises and no breakages...
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Bull on Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:56 +0000

The softlockers only replace the spider gears not the whole diff centre. I'm told that makes them weaker than a Detroit but I've never broken one. They do provide postive lockup and only unlock when the outside wheel travels faster in a corner, same as a Detroit, only much quieter. I'm a big fan of plate type LSDs, Subaru and Nissan ones work well. I just don't know why the Toyota ones don't.
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Re: Rear Locker - Detroit or ARB?

Postby Dluxv6 on Sun, 19 Jul 2009 1:35 +0000

Bull
like everything else Toyota are relying on their name now not there product
they now know their product will sell even with under engineered gear in them
ie clutches LSD's
Land cruiser 100 has a weak diff etc etc
Even the new v8 diesel has been reported to be using fairly significant amounts of engine oil.

Cheers Drew
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