Rear disc brake conversion...

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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby taresk on Mon, 08 Oct 2018 8:05 +0000

I was discussing this with the guys at Ceika Performance (the ones that do custom big brake kits), they could also do a rear disc conversion for the Hilux, the only catch is they'd need ten confirmed customers to cover development costs.
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Plumb Perfect on Tue, 09 Oct 2018 12:36 +0000

Again, who ever is thinking about this, do it!!

Braking improvement is night and day I cannot recommend it enough. Especially those that tow or carry loads. If your Ute is empty most of the time then might not be worth it but most on here use their utes (I would assume) and it’s a fantastic upgrade.

I did have an idiot pull out and into my lane and then just stop there while I was coming along at approx 60km/h. I slammed hard on the brakes while blasting the horn hoping that he would move forward when he saw me but he must have been stunned and just sat there. There’s a point during a moment like that when you think “sh*t,it’s not gonna stop, I’m gonna hit into him” ,well I had that feeling!!!. You usually know what your vehicle can and can’t do. The Hilux pulled up with metres to spare. I was extremely annoyed at that idiot but very very impressed with my brakes at the same time. It’s fair to say I was shocked that it stopped, I could actually feel the rear end helping to pull up.

IMO that incident alone paid for the brake conversion.
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Plumb Perfect on Tue, 09 Oct 2018 12:39 +0000

I might have been doing 70kmh :D
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Blackie2008 on Sun, 14 Oct 2018 1:19 +0000

This thread needs more pics...
Dan.

08' SR5 Dual Cab, Manual, Prado brake upgrade, 33" KM2's, DMS MR Rekon Stage II, MMKD, Stage 2 GTurbo, HPD FMIC, NPC Clutch, 360 UHD Gearbox...

Built, not bought

Build thread: http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic ... 41&t=15092
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Plumb Perfect on Fri, 01 Feb 2019 3:09 +0000

For those interested.....

I’ll try to get the wheel off soon for better picsImage ImageImageImage


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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Sideways on Wed, 06 Feb 2019 4:27 +0000

Good to hear a positive review on these PP as it's long been a bug-bear of the Luxes with the rubbish drum brakes. I'm constantly setting off the front ABS in my TRD as I do a substantial amount of dirt driving and it's doing my head in!!!! :evil:
I was very close to making my own kit as I've developed a few rear disc conversions for my race/rally cars over the years, however an effective integrated handbrake set-up was proving to be a time-consuming issue. It almost sent me down the path of a 120 Prado complete rear end, with the multi-link mounts cut off and leaf perch mounts welded on (added benefit of increased track-width too).

Further to my previous posts, I read a few more articles on a Tacoma forum and discovered these kits were indeed the ones made by Unique Power International in Taiwan (not 'developed' by Pedders as they claim) and are used by loads of Tacoma owners in the US.
They also make (effectively the same) kits for most Japanese brand commercial utes.

I'm currently awaiting a reply from them regarding direct purchase as I really can't stomach the cost when most conversions I've done in the past (incl cad drawings/laser-cut brackets/rotors/calipers etc) usually cost around $600
It'll be interesting to see if they're prepared to sell individually or if there's a minimum order req'd....
Cheers, S
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Plumb Perfect on Wed, 06 Feb 2019 7:13 +0000

My guess would also be that pedders haven’t “developed” the kit. Tested maybe but I’m sure it’s all imported. Some of those Tacoma kits look near identical down to the odd location of the caliper (on the top slightly to one side). Pedders are also now offering the kits for the other makes of dual cabs so yeah go figure!

Either way, I do recommend the kit regardless of where you end up getting it from. I honestly don’t think your gonna find a better brake set up than that for our machines (without going a set of 6piston Brembos all round :D) or any of the late model dual cabs. It’s been a few months now and every now and then during a heavy braking session you realise the braking potential is so much greater than before, especially while towing or carrying loads, it gives you a lot more confidence. It’s just way too much work for the fronts to pull up alone and constantly trying to maintain the rear drum adjustment is a pain.


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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Sideways on Thu, 07 Feb 2019 8:37 +0000

Just heard back from UPI and as thought, they are the suppliers of the 'Pedders' kit.
Unfortunately they have a signed exclusive agreement with Pedders for the Australasian region so they won't supply individual or even limited quantity to anyone else here.... :roll:

The US market is huge - often far cheaper( even taking shipping into account) so I'll see what the price is via a US supplier. I'm not averse to paying for good gear but the price gouging by Pedders on this really pisses me off. Most of us could (just) stomach the purchase price but the fact they 'must' fit it for you (warranty etc) is another expense too far.

If no joy, I'll just do a GQ rotor with R33 4 pot calipers and MA70 H/brake adapter and bias valve so I can finely adjust between gravel and bitumen - total $678 and everything including the caliper brackets are 'off the shelf'.
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Critter350 on Thu, 07 Feb 2019 9:41 +0000

Sounds great Sideways
+ engineering cert I guess? Any idea what that would cost in WA?


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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Sideways on Thu, 07 Feb 2019 11:03 +0000

If you feel the need to get it engineered, then whatever your local cost is.....
Btw, I'm not doing these kits for anyone, merely providing the info.

It's ALL available on Ebay:
GQ rotors $120 pair
Billet caliper brackets $210
S/H rear Skyline calipers $150 (or more, depending which model you want to run)
Handbrake cable/bracket mods can be done yourself if you feel inclined or you can get them done by a cable company - $100 (max)
Brake bias valve $69 (optional)
Total: $649 (plus your time of course - should be a nice Sat arvo job).

It's really not that hard..........the only observation I would add is that if I was to design/laser-cut my own brackets, I would make them 3 bolt, not 2 bolt like the ones on Ebay but it's a minor issue - those billet brackets have been around for awhile.
Cheers, S
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Plumb Perfect on Thu, 07 Feb 2019 12:05 +0000

Mate sounds like a bargain go for it!!

I’m pretty sure pedders will sell you the kit to install yourself. It’s still pricey through at around $2k if I remember correctly. Installed cost was $2700 + engineering (if you wish to have it engineered)

Look forward to hearing how it goes.


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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Plumb Perfect on Thu, 07 Feb 2019 12:07 +0000

Oh and engineering certificate cost was around $800


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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Sideways on Thu, 07 Feb 2019 7:25 +0000

So, $3500.00 for an engineered set of disc brakes...
We know not everyone can do their own mechanical work (nor want to in many cases) but that's just insane for a kit that would have easily been produced for a few hundred dollars in Taiwan (probably even less).

Not having a go PP - kudos to you for putting your hard-earned up and I'm glad you're happy with the product.
I truly understand time off work, headaches, chasing bits etc. all comes at a price and it's not for everyone (I'm a self-employed Tradie myself) but when you can do it for around a 1/4 the price......
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Plumb Perfect on Thu, 07 Feb 2019 8:33 +0000

Nahh no offence taken mate. I’m just happy to provide the feedback as I know you were interested in a rear setup earlier and also for those who were interested. That’s why we are all here right....

I hope you do manage to put it all together and it does exactly what it should for you. For that price it will be even more rewarding.

Keep us updated on how you go and how it performs. After all, there’s only one thing a TRD doesn’t do well and that’s STOP in time. Fix that and you have yourself the ultimate dual cab ute (IMO of course :D)


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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby HK1837 on Fri, 08 Feb 2019 5:16 +0000

You don’t really need rear discs to make a TRD stop. After all the rear brakes do maybe 20% of your braking in a crash stop. You’ll get far better improvements for a lot less $ with no Engineering required (and still have a decent hand brake) by fitting:

T3 rotors.
Decent pads.
Dual diaphragm booster conversion.
Caliper clean out with new seals.
Fluid change.

Of course if it isn’t a TRD the improvement will be far bigger as you’d be fitting TRD size rotors and calipers to any other 2005-15.

The exception of course are those who claim to have dirt road issues with drums.
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Plumb Perfect on Fri, 08 Feb 2019 6:42 +0000

I should have noted, I do carry Tools and some gear in the back as well as a 2” lift. This changes the braking performance a fair bit so comparison to an empty standard vehicle wouldn’t be correct. I should have highlighted that my bad. I know you have the supercharged setup HK not sure if your lifted or loaded?

With the lift and carrying gear or towing, the rear discs make a lot of difference more than you would think. I know, as the whole reason I had the conversion done was after having had an accident due to not being able to stop in time. The cost was very expensive as pointed out by sideways I did not take it lightly however, the way I looked at it was it was a lot cheaper than the accident and was a decent purchase as far as an insurance policy. That’s just the way I processed it and it’s worked for me. I totally understand his point of view though.
I should also note, I drive my TRD almost all day, every single day. I use it for work, on the weekends, for camping, off-roading and towing boats/Excavators. It’s always carrying gear. So for me, it was worth it. My posts here were for those who were wondering “if they are worth it” or if “they really make a difference” just as I was before purchasing. Hopefully it’s useful info.

We all generally know Hilux brakes aren’t the best. I do have a good mate who also has a TRD and doesn’t really complain about the brakes so its obviously because of the weight and towing (and probably amount of usage,his vehicle is always empty). For those who think they are OK that’s good, for those who have reached the limits of the braking setup it’s a great option.

Lastly,
I do have all of the above bar the double diaphragm. The jump in braking performance with rear discs out shines those mods by a fair bit. ( especially when towing/loaded)

Cheers fellas



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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Sideways on Fri, 08 Feb 2019 7:18 +0000

Totally agree with the handbrake comment but as to 20% of your braking, not always.....and the booster conversion is simply masking the underlying problem.
Most road cars are a default set-up with very heavy front bias, essentially to protect Numpties from getting themselves all squirrelly under heavy braking. Whilst 'safe' for the manufacturer, it's not always ideal.

Been building and racing cars for 30+ years, bitumen but mainly dirt. Decent brakes are often more important than outright HP so it's always a focal point on our builds. To set-up a nicely balanced braking system is really not that hard. You'd be amazed at how much more rear bias you can add to massively improve the stopping of any vehicle - particularly when towing.

To be fair though, I'm probably more conscious of it than most due to the racing and time spent on loose surfaces, but it still doesn't change the fact it's a sub-standard system for a 2.5T 4WD
The TRD fronts (as mentioned) are easily up to the job with decent (Red Stuff or equiv) pads and quality rotors, however, the drums are useless, requiring constant adjustment to maximise their effect and terrible under repeated heavy application. Far too much front bias as well (IMO).

For $600ish dollars, you'll get a massively improved (and 'tunable') system. Only drawback is a handbrake that's not quite as effective as factory but in a TRD, they're auto so not as much of an issue....
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby HK1837 on Fri, 08 Feb 2019 7:29 +0000

Mine has a 2” Ultimate lift, and carries a decent constant load due to the steel bar, winch, canopy, tub liner, 10mm rubber mat, extra battery, fridge etc. it weighs about 2400kg. Plus I regularly tow a car float with 4 wheel electric brakes or when I’m getting firewood a 1540kg electric braked box trailer.

I’d say the following. Brakes other than the good handbrake were never good. The TRD/120 and T3 brake upgrade helped a lot but were still underwhelming. The icing was the VT Commodore dual diaphragm booster, gives you better pedal and more confidence in the brakes, where I wouldn’t even consider discs even if it was cheap and easy, the drums are more than adequate and give a superior handbrake. I chewed out two sets of rotors and pads inside 40,000km (originals and a set of stock size T3’s) but have had the TRD size T3’s on since and haven’t needed pads or rear shoes since, just hitting 130,000km now (still has original shoes in it).
Note I’ve done the same with my HK GTS I’m building. I just spent about $8k on a full stainless Rodtech front end and 9” diff for it, has massive (for a lightweight HK Monaro) BF onwards Falcon front rotors and calipers, big dual diaphragm booster and VT stepped bore master cyl, but I’ve kept the HK-WB rear drum brakes as they are simple, reliable, only do a small part of the braking and use all original handbrake cables etc so look far neater underneath. I’m spending big $ on this car but I can’t justify the minimal cost a set of rear disc brakes for it as they would make no difference, would be different if it was to be a track car but it is being built as an everyday driver (air, steer, auto, EFI, V2 Monaro seats etc).
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Sideways on Fri, 08 Feb 2019 8:00 +0000

Yes, horses for courses etc..
Most won't push their cars all that hard that brakes become a big issue - my TRD is likely similar to yours, full custom alloy canopy with drop boxes, slide draw, 2" lift, b/bar, LR tank, fridge etc etc...
When away for rallies we have 20 odd wheels, full complement of spares/workshop tools/service gear/fuel, plus a rally car on a tandem trailer. It gets driven 'confidently' :D so I'm very conscious of the lack-lustre brakes.

To give some perspective, the rally cars we run generally have 300(ish)mm rotors with 4 pot calipers, ceramic pads, braided lines, no boosters and in-dash adjustable pedal-boxes (at about 980kg). Once you've driven something with that kind of stopping power, everything else feels inadequate.
Also towed an offroad van around Aus (a large amount on dirt) and vowed never to do another trip without throwing those drums in the bin....
Drums are cheaper to manufacture, that's why they use them.
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion...

Postby Plumb Perfect on Fri, 08 Feb 2019 8:05 +0000

The rear disc kit still retains a drum handbrake but a rear disc brake. The drum handbrake is located within the hat of the disc. If that makes sense. So essentially you still have the same handbrake setup. Sorry wasn’t sure if I made that clear.

Both points taken. I’d agree that on the GTS with the upgrades you’ve done on the front, rear discs are probably not necessary. Similarly on a Lux which performs ok as is then it’s not worth it. Though I’d say you definitely feel when you don’t have enough as was in my case. The front bias is heavily noticeable. They perform well but you just can’t expect the fronts to be pulling up all the weight, quickly prompting the ABS to kick in exactly how sideways described it.
In a real world scenario, the rear drums are always out of adjustment it’s just a constant hassle especially if you travel off bitumen.
Having confidence in your braking setup is really important. I no longer get that tense feeling especially in the wet as it just pulls up as it should.

As far as the rear disc conversion goes I’m pretty sure we can agree through the experience I’ve had and the knowledge of you both, that it would be a superior setup and pretty much tick the boxes. It is night and day difference trust me.

The only issue, again I’m sure we agree, is the cost. It is expensive! It was for me, but I’ve mentioned why I did it (even before the pulley upgrades,ecu tune and TRD CAI which I’m itching for. You lucky bastards [emoji23])

If sideways manages to pull of that setup, I’d tip my hat off to him and I’m sure he will be very happy with it.


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