Gen 8 Towing performance

General discussion of basically anything related to the 2015> Hilux

Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby junga23 on Fri, 04 Nov 2016 8:13 +0000

What is the new model's towing performance like. I've got the kun26 manual dual cab with 33's and thinking of upgrading to the new model auto and fitting lift and 33. How much better is the towing performance of the new model compared to the old
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby Gulfstream8 on Sat, 05 Nov 2016 6:27 +0000

My mate has made the upgrade and with either 420Nw for the Manual or 450Nw for the Auto it's light years better than the 340Nw of the old. He is though a little annoyed at the auto at times hunting for gears but apparently there is an update for this but he has learnt to drive it manually when towing heavy anyway.

The torque is what makes it so much better and your going to love it! With more toque it also stabilises the fuel economy so as you load up the vehicle you don't have large discrepancies in fuel economy when loaded like the old engine with only 340Nw.
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby Ray230 on Sun, 06 Nov 2016 6:54 +0000

Can't compare to the old model as this is my first Hilux. However I upgraded from a 360nm Colorado. They are just worlds apart. I tow a 2T trailer everyday and it pulls it up steep hills no worries. I've had prob 500kg in the tray while towing and it still wasn't complaining. I've had my mechanic trying to sell me a chip for it but I couldn't see the point? I have the auto by the way
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby darren278 on Sun, 06 Nov 2016 9:46 +0000

Yeah all good here too! Didn't have the older model but have the 2.8 manual sr5. I tow a 750kg - 2000kg trailer Monday to Friday no problem at all and get a return of 10.2 ltrs per 100km.
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby incman on Mon, 07 Nov 2016 6:05 +0000

here's a tow comparison

We’ve corralled the Toyota Hilux, Holden Colorado, Ford Ranger, Mazda BT-50, Isuzu D-MAX and the Mitsubishi Triton to find out.

https://www.4x4australia.com.au/drive/r ... rison-test
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby crustie on Mon, 07 Nov 2016 2:24 +0000

Last month we towed our van from Sydney to Whitsundays and back.
Van is 2.5 tonne
When towing at 100kms we seem to be averaging 16/100 per litre,
No Van about 8.8/100
In Sydney anywhere between 9 and 11/100 depending on traffic
The Hilux has enough torque to tow however the Auto changes down to quick,
As much as I love the Hilux it does struggle a little bit when towing a big van.
I also get a slight shutter from the transmission when taking off.
When I am up to speed I put the auto into S5 however I have also tried D and both seem to be
the same on fuel consumption
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby junga23 on Tue, 08 Nov 2016 8:20 +0000

crustie wrote:Last month we towed our van from Sydney to Whitsundays and back.
Van is 2.5 tonne
When towing at 100kms we seem to be averaging 16/100 per litre,
No Van about 8.8/100
In Sydney anywhere between 9 and 11/100 depending on traffic
The Hilux has enough torque to tow however the Auto changes down to quick,
As much as I love the Hilux it does struggle a little bit when towing a big van.
I also get a slight shutter from the transmission when taking off.
When I am up to speed I put the auto into S5 however I have also tried D and both seem to be
the same on fuel consumption

Thanks mate thats the exact sort of info I'm after. I want to upgrade my jayco swan to a caravan shortly and have a 2t boat and don't want to buy a new lux and be disappointed with the towing performance. Love the look of the new hilux, it ticks all the boxes just unsure if I'll be happy with the grunt of it as I'd want 33's, lift and all the gear like my current one. just wish they went a bit bigger motor
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby crustie on Wed, 09 Nov 2016 4:44 +0000

I suspect you need to be a Landcruiser 200
Cheers chris
junga23 wrote:
crustie wrote:Last month we towed our van from Sydney to Whitsundays and back.
Van is 2.5 tonne
When towing at 100kms we seem to be averaging 16/100 per litre,
No Van about 8.8/100
In Sydney anywhere between 9 and 11/100 depending on traffic
The Hilux has enough torque to tow however the Auto changes down to quick,
As much as I love the Hilux it does struggle a little bit when towing a big van.
I also get a slight shutter from the transmission when taking off.
When I am up to speed I put the auto into S5 however I have also tried D and both seem to be
the same on fuel consumption

Thanks mate thats the exact sort of info I'm after. I want to upgrade my jayco swan to a caravan shortly and have a 2t boat and don't want to buy a new lux and be disappointed with the towing performance. Love the look of the new hilux, it ticks all the boxes just unsure if I'll be happy with the grunt of it as I'd want 33's, lift and all the gear like my current one. just wish they went a bit bigger motor
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby junga23 on Wed, 09 Nov 2016 9:11 +0000

crustie wrote:I suspect you need to be a Landcruiser 200
Cheers chris
junga23 wrote:
crustie wrote:Last month we towed our van from Sydney to Whitsundays and back.
Van is 2.5 tonne
When towing at 100kms we seem to be averaging 16/100 per litre,
No Van about 8.8/100
In Sydney anywhere between 9 and 11/100 depending on traffic
The Hilux has enough torque to tow however the Auto changes down to quick,
As much as I love the Hilux it does struggle a little bit when towing a big van.
I also get a slight shutter from the transmission when taking off.
When I am up to speed I put the auto into S5 however I have also tried D and both seem to be
the same on fuel consumption

Thanks mate thats the exact sort of info I'm after. I want to upgrade my jayco swan to a caravan shortly and have a 2t boat and don't want to buy a new lux and be disappointed with the towing performance. Love the look of the new hilux, it ticks all the boxes just unsure if I'll be happy with the grunt of it as I'd want 33's, lift and all the gear like my current one. just wish they went a bit bigger motor

Yeah I know that's what I'm starting to think mate
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby Ryan1kd on Thu, 17 Nov 2016 7:06 +0000

Image
Tows great. Manual. No need to thrash it to keep up with traffic. Minimal fuss.
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby Drysie26 on Sat, 29 Jul 2017 5:46 +0000

Towed a 10x6 tandem trailer today full of garden rock for 100km. The thing absolutely loved it! Overtaking cars doing 120 not a drama at all. Fuel consumption only went up .2. Much better towing than the N70.

2016 SR5 auto
2' lift 32' bfg
EGR and auto updates done.
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby Gerritlr on Sun, 30 Jul 2017 8:43 +0000

Towed my 2.6 ton boat on a 3000 km trip up north without any issues with an average fuel consumption
between 16 - 18/100 Towed much better than my Prado 150
http://imghostr.net/image/f1ve
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby Beta on Mon, 31 Jul 2017 9:38 +0000

I tow my 3.2t boat with mine and while I wouldn't tow it around Australia it does tow it better than I thought it would. I tow in manual mode in 4th, occasionally clicking into 5th when the road allows, it tows at 90-100km/h comfortably on regional roads (bumby $hitty). If every trip was a long trip then I would use the missus Patrol (Y62) but my trip is 100km's each way each time and that's fine.
If your boat is only 2t, it will do it easily.
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby HK1837 on Mon, 31 Jul 2017 12:57 +0000

junga23 wrote:
crustie wrote:Last month we towed our van from Sydney to Whitsundays and back.
Van is 2.5 tonne
When towing at 100kms we seem to be averaging 16/100 per litre,
No Van about 8.8/100
In Sydney anywhere between 9 and 11/100 depending on traffic
The Hilux has enough torque to tow however the Auto changes down to quick,
As much as I love the Hilux it does struggle a little bit when towing a big van.
I also get a slight shutter from the transmission when taking off.
When I am up to speed I put the auto into S5 however I have also tried D and both seem to be
the same on fuel consumption

Thanks mate thats the exact sort of info I'm after. I want to upgrade my jayco swan to a caravan shortly and have a 2t boat and don't want to buy a new lux and be disappointed with the towing performance. Love the look of the new hilux, it ticks all the boxes just unsure if I'll be happy with the grunt of it as I'd want 33's, lift and all the gear like my current one. just wish they went a bit bigger motor


Just make sure you do the GCM and GVM sums before committing. Toyota used to advertise the maximum towing ability at full vehicle GVW (ie the Hilux fully laden). Now they take a large bite out of the GVW of the vehicle to allocate to the trailer. To compare apples with apples here is the 2015 versus the current 2017 both diesel auto SR5 dual cab:

2015
GCM: 5280kg (vehicle plus trailer)
GVW: 2780kg (vehicle with maximum load of people and cargo)
ATM of trailer: 2500kg (trailer on wheels and jockey wheel on a weighbridge).
As you can see the GCM is the vehicle fully loaded plus the trailer. These allow a max load of 835kg in/on the vehicle which will include towball load.

2017
GCM: 5650kg
GVW: 3000kg
ATM of trailer: 3200kg.
As you can see already 3000+3200=6200kg. So if you tow the whole 3200kg, your GVW is limited to 2450kg (weight of vehicle and people and load including towball weight). As the approx. Kerb weight is 2075kg, you can start to see the problem straight away. Out of that that 2450kg you have to account for the towball load, towing 3200kg you'd expect 320kg on the towball. 2075+320kg=2395kg. BUT your maximum load is 2450kg! That leaves 55kg to account for:

Towbar and towball.
Driver.
Any other accessories.

It isn't going to happen! The real towing capacity of this particular car is 2650kg, which is the 5650kg GCM minus the 3000kg GVW. Realistically on a 2075kg Kerb weight Hilux I would expect the following additional loads:

75kg towbar.
80kg canopy.
5kg tubliner.
100kg bulbar.
15kg winch.
250kg for 4 x people.
TOTAL: 2600kg. Now you are down to 3050kg maximum towing, and there I no luggage, tools, fridge, camping gear etc yet accounted for.

So you can see why I say do you sums. Claimed towing capacity is a con.
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby Gipsy on Mon, 31 Jul 2017 1:30 +0000

All the above makes no mention of fuel which MUST be added to the vehicle load (part of GVM or deducted from allowable payload) All very complicated but Toyota has gone down the bs road to complete with all the other bs merchants with their bs tow weight of 3.5tonne. With that kind of towing load there's none left for fuel and passengers as noted above (the con).

Just add roughly 70kg for a full tank!

I shudder when I see a loaded 4x4 towing a 3.5tonne trailer with tinnie, outboard, mum and dad and 3 kids and the family Rottweiler hurtling toward me at 110kmh :o Even if you do all the substitution of +fuel - bull bar there's no margin of error! :shock:

Then consider the 3.5tonne ATM trailer/caravan and add another 4-500kg in the van! Water, clothes, food utensils, blankets and pillows etc. The mind boggles! Next is when the traffic boffins pull you over on the weighbridge, who do you leave behind to reduce the gcm? Oh! I forgot to add the 2 Jerry cans of diesel on the back of the caravan.
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
My 2013 auto D4D DC SR5, prefilter, 3" exhaust and Chip with egt probe, stock SR5 rims with Toyo Open Country AT2 265/65R/17's
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby HK1837 on Mon, 31 Jul 2017 2:29 +0000

Kerb weight includes fuel. Tare used to be Kerb weight less fuel plus 2 gallons (this is how GMH used to publish it anyway). If you look at Toyota's website the vehicle I used above in calcs (dual cab SR5 diesel auto 4x4) has a kerb weight of 2075kg and a Tare of 2040kg. That is only 35kg for some reason - I work out 80L-9.08L (2 gal) x 0.832kg/L = 59kg. So Toyota's tare weight may actually have 1/2 tank of fuel: 40L x 0.832 = 33.28kg (pretty close).

I too worry about the rolling disaster coming at me, but what the people doing it don't understand is any accident with the vehicle overloaded as such and their Insurer says NO. On top of all the above too, most of these people also have larger diameter tyres than standard without fitting larger rotors, which also has a significant affect on the braking ability of the vehicle.

Edit, Toyota publish all this on their Australian Website too. Kerb is full of all fluids including fuel. Tare is Kerb minus fuel plus 10L. Their actual website figures do not add up for the 2017 SR5 dual cab 4x4 D4D auto!

https://www.toyota.com.au/owners/accessories/payload
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby Gipsy on Mon, 31 Jul 2017 5:11 +0000

Good to know if correct but I am doubtful other manufacturers do the same. This debate has raged for at least a decade, and if other manufacturers claim 3.5 tonne towing weight with vehicles that have similar GVM to hilux then surely they are being a bit liberal with what is being included. I suggest the authority uses GVM and GCM and not kerb or tare.
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
My 2013 auto D4D DC SR5, prefilter, 3" exhaust and Chip with egt probe, stock SR5 rims with Toyo Open Country AT2 265/65R/17's
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby Gipsy on Mon, 31 Jul 2017 5:23 +0000

These are the definitions from the ADR:

GROSS COMBINATION MASS - value specified for the vehicle by the ‘Manufacturer’ as being the maximum of the sum of the ‘Gross Vehicle Mass’ of the drawing vehicle plus the sum of the ‘Axle Loads’ of any vehicle capable of being drawn as a trailer.

GROSS TRAILER MASS (GTM) - the mass transmitted to the ground by the ‘Axle’ or ‘Axles’ of the trailer when coupled to a drawing vehicle and carrying its maximum load approximately uniformly distributed over the load bearing area, and at which compliance with the appropriate Australian Design Rules has been or can be established.
GROSS VEHICLE MASS (GVM) - the maximum laden mass of a motor vehicle as specified by the ‘Manufacturer’.

No mention of tare or kerb weight! These definitions are what a weighbridge check would use, they don't worry about with or without fuel, they use these 'absolute' values only as far as I understand. And the weighbridge would use BOTH values I.e. they would weigh the GCM and ask you to disconnect and weigh the GVM and a fail in EITHER would be an infringement!

Edit: I would argue if you passed the GCM test there wouldn't be an issue with GVM unless the inspector was having a bad day.
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
My 2013 auto D4D DC SR5, prefilter, 3" exhaust and Chip with egt probe, stock SR5 rims with Toyo Open Country AT2 265/65R/17's
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby HK1837 on Mon, 31 Jul 2017 5:54 +0000

You need to know the Tare or Kerb weight to calculate what your vehicle start weight is before you load it up. It is published by ALL manufacturers and have done so since utes have been built in Australia. Holden utes have always had weights on plates under the bonnet Just look at NSW rego papers, they have both Tare and GVM on them, although I just noticed the GVM is wrong on my 2011 rego. It says 2700kg. The V6 auto GVM is 2810kg. If you do not know the Tare or Kerb weight there is no starting point.

All Manufacturers mostly have the same towing capacity con too. It isn't a debate, it is fact. If people believe otherwise they are either stupid or ignorant. They won't be ignorant if they have an insurance claim refused though! It isn't a defence.

You don't need GTM, rego authorities shouldn't use it - it confuses people. All you need to know is:
Trailer weight (this includes EVERYTHING loaded in/on the trailer);
Vehicle GCM;
Remaining Vehicle GVM after you subtract the trailer weight from the GCM (this is rarely equal to the published GVM);
Subtract Kerb weight from the Remaining GVM and you have the amount of load you can put in your vehicle. This includes: people, luggage, towbar, bullbar, roof racks, canopy, fridge, snacks etc. PLUS importantly the towball weight (normally if loaded right it should be 10% of the trailer weight).

I may have mentioned it here once before, saw a D40 Xtra cab Navara with a 5th wheel huge van on it. These things (Xtra cabs) were always Thai made thus the lowest power 2.5L 4cyl diesel, and no auto. I don't know how you'd get it off the mark, the clutches in these are useless and slip in 4x4. I can't see that 5th wheeler weighing much less than 3 tonnes, and the D40 had to drop around 300+kg off the GVW when towing full load. I reckon it was at least 1000kg over the GCM. And I bet a Nissan dealer sold it to him too.
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Re: Gen 8 Towing performance

Postby Gipsy on Mon, 31 Jul 2017 6:09 +0000

Yes agreed, but 5th wheelers still would be required to pass GVM and GCM, they do have a little scope because the hitch is in front of the rear axle and they do have a slightly different calculation to get the values. They are also a bit lighter than they appear, the visual size belies their true weight. My brother in-law had one with an Isuzu and he used lo4x4 to get rolling and shift into hi 2wd.

To add to my discussion on weighbridge, the inspector is likely to drive your vehicle onto the scales, then ask you to drive the trailer onto the scales and use a calculated figure for GCM. (GVM of the vehicle including towball weight then the trailer mass, which would NOT include tow ball weight) in this case GVM+trailer mass=GCM

Only starting point is to weigh your vehicle with all your bits onboard and subtract this from manufacturers GVM. This tells you what you can add. Although it would be better with full fuel load, it doesnt matter wether full or empty of fuel, you can calculate any remaining load before you reach gvm. Using this method as you drive your fuel weight is reduced giving you some leeway on gvm. Then comes the trailer. ;) For anyone who wants to know, your local tip normally has a weighbridge, and if you wink at the operator they will tell you what you weigh, stay in the car and then you only need to add any passengers to the weight before your trip.

Edit: my caravan was registered by a newbie who didn't know squat and used the plated ATM as GTM for the paperwork but the inspector would read the plate NOT the papers.
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
My 2013 auto D4D DC SR5, prefilter, 3" exhaust and Chip with egt probe, stock SR5 rims with Toyo Open Country AT2 265/65R/17's
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