Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

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Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby William_Foster on Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:05 +0000

Hi all,

I am looking for some advice/feedback.

I have put an order in for a new Rogue, but wondering if that was a good decision and whether I should replace the order with an SR5. I was going to order a dual-cab 70 series, but as you’d be aware I would get the ute until late 2024 at the earliest.

I am upgrading from a 2013 Dual-cab SR5 which is diesel and manual, my existing ute has been fully kitted-out for touring/remote travel.

I need to have a GVM upgrade, dual-batteries, long-range fuel tank, etc no matter which way I go. So I was thinking that the Rogue with its standard 4 wheel disc brakes, wider track width and raised suspension would be a good option.

However, after placing the order (which I can easily change) I’ve been told that you can’t have dual-batteries under the bonnet. In addition you have to have an automatic, when my wife and I would prefer a manual.

So I’m thinking of downgrading to a manual SR5, getting the Pedders Rear Disc Brake Conversion along with their GVM upgrade (I have a Pedders GVM upgrade on my current ute which I’m generally happy with).

So I was hoping to get some real world feedback on the new Hilux in remote travel conditions to help inform my choice. It would be greatly appreciated if I could feedback on:

- Whether you really can’t have dual batteries under the bonnet in a Rogue (apparently you couldn’t on the previous model either)?
- Has anyone got real world feedback on the manual? I know that you loose torque, but given that it would still have 50nm more than my current ute I wasn’t too fused.
- Alternatively, does anyone have real world feedback on towing remotely with the automatic? We have never had an auto so are a bit nervous about having one for towing (1.8tonne) in very remote conditions.
- Has anyone got real world experience with the Pedders Rear Wheel Disc Brake Conversion?

And lastly, the Rogue comes with one of those motorised roller covers; because the local dealer doesn’t have stock (I live in Alice Springs, so I can’t really shop around), I can’t just check heights and the like. So I was wondering if anyone knows what the biggest fridge I can fit under the cover? I have a Waeco CFX-50 currently in the canopy which is 471mm high.

Thanks in advance.

William
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby hiluxxury on Mon, 03 Oct 2022 6:27 +0000

My $0.02

I've never has a problem with the drum brakes in the pov pack fleet N80 hiluxs I've driven. Since the facelift, the auto has been pretty good but it will use more fuel in the sand.

I've often thought though that I'd get a manual for touring but now that both of my daily cars are autos, I'd consider an auto. Simply because they are much easier to live with. Given you live in the warmer temps, an additional cooler and regular fluid changes wouldn't hurt. Check with your dealer about the warranty implications of the cooler. If its a problem, you can mitigate future problems with frequent oil changes and then once its out of warranty, put a cooler on.

There is a guy here on the forum with an aftermarket rear disc kit who swears by it. He tows a bit for his business and notes the braking performance benefits.

Re the battery... there are plenty of options now for mounting batteries behind the seat and other locations. Its the same engine though, so who knows what your dealer is going on about.

You wont notice the 50nm between the manual and the auto. I never have. The only good thing about the 70s we drive is the V8... the sound and the off-idle torque. The hilux is much more comfortable, quiet and much more nimble in the scrub.
I might be wrong.

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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby Gipsy on Mon, 03 Oct 2022 8:05 +0000

William, don't sweat the auto, it's a good gearbox and makes the hilux much easier to live with, especially for towing. Hiluxxury's advice is true, and I agree totally. Yes i have a gen7 but the extra 50nm makes a big difference especially for towing. Buy the auto and don't look back! I'm old school and always believed that a manual was best for towing but after upgrading from a manual series 80 LC to the auto hilux it's like chalk and cheese. Wish I went auto decades ago. And I tow 2.5 tonne everywhere I go.
BTW the auto has 50nm extra but also has a bonus... auto transmissions have a very efficient and effective torque multiplication which no manual has, making the automatic even more torque which is what you really need for towing.
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby William_Foster on Mon, 03 Oct 2022 7:36 +0000

Thanks Hiluxxury and Gipsy, appreciate the feedback.

I might go to the dealer and see if I can get a test drive in a 2.8 automatic; given they all have the same running gear they may have a second-hand one I can go for a spin in.

I’ve been looking at pictures of second-hand Rogue’s on CarSales, the engine bays look like they could fit a second battery in there; I might try calling one of those dealers to get a reality check.

I’m a bit more nervous with this purchase than my last one, given the cost. My 2013 SR5 was only $49k drive away, they are certainly big coin now; especially with all the modification costs.
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby Gipsy on Tue, 04 Oct 2022 5:37 +0000

Wow you did well with the 2013, mine cost $53k (but that's for auto) with no extras. Lost a $itload on the LC but happy with the hilux.
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby hiluxxury on Tue, 04 Oct 2022 11:03 +0000

They are big coin now... that is certain. At least now the N80 has a few years behind it so the bugs are largely resolved... and its not a Ranger.
I might be wrong.

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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby Gipsy on Tue, 04 Oct 2022 11:17 +0000

:lol: no it's not a ranger... ;)
I will be keeping my n70 until it expires, or if I do... Just like the latest Toyota unbreakable hilux ad :lol: I'll be back!
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
My 2013 auto D4D DC SR5, prefilter, 3" exhaust and Chip with egt probe, stock SR5 rims with Toyo Open Country AT2 265/65R/17's
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby William_Foster on Tue, 04 Oct 2022 5:52 +0000

Yep,it was cheap Gipsy! That was back in the day when the dealers had stock (an unheard of concept now); we bought in February 2014 cheap because they were getting rid of 2013 stamped stock. It is quite crazy how things have changed in just a few years, even without COVID-19 the new sales models that the manufacturers are using will probably mean that we never have end of year runout stock in the same way again.

Very happy not to have a Ranger; I used to have one for work, after a few trips on gravel it looked like the lower sections had been sandblasted. They must be very cheap on the amount of paint they apply. Although they do have good technology, you just know it is going to break at some stage (10 speed autos and bi-turbos would be hard to fix in the bush, where as every bush town has someone who can fix a Toyota).

Good news on the auto; I went to the dealer today and they are going to have an auto Hilux in that I can test drive at the end of the month, which will be great. The big question now is what they class as a test drive out in these parts :lol:
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby Gipsy on Wed, 05 Oct 2022 5:49 +0000

Well if you get a test drive and nobody says what you can or can't do, do everything you want your new hilux to do, give it heaps... Drive it like you stole it :lol: geez you're spending a lot of coin so why shouldn't you give it a blast :)

And yes I think run-out stock is a thing of the past... Looks like Just in time methods... Low stock and fear of missing out make you wait so you really want it by the time you get one. :? Hope they didn't get your old hilux before you get the new one. Mine was stock so I literally drove it away. :D
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
My 2013 auto D4D DC SR5, prefilter, 3" exhaust and Chip with egt probe, stock SR5 rims with Toyo Open Country AT2 265/65R/17's
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby Viper82 on Wed, 05 Oct 2022 7:45 +0000

You might want to check that you can do a GVM upgrade on the rogue. I reckon you can't on a rugged X because it already has a SSM already done to it and because of the changes to the track width it might not be possible. best to check before it's too late.
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby Myralga on Thu, 06 Oct 2022 12:42 +0000

Wrote you a pm but my 2 cents for anyone else stumbling on this.

Yes my rigs heavily modified.

But I have had a 07space cab 13 DC and now the 17 DC all in manual.

First thing going from 07-13 I hated the esc and traction control in my 13 because if you gave it the slightest bit of extra gas it would de rate to prevent you slipping in the dirt every time. The 17 is so so so much better I only manage to really get the light flashing if I deliberately push it to try to get it to happen and even then it doesn’t de rate but rather control the power which is a million times better.

Having driven all these both touring, gravel roads tarmac and daily drive even prior to changing the suspension in the 17 it was by far the most comfortable of them all.

I never really do any towing so I can’t speak to that.
But I will mention the Autos are only allowed to go to 3200kg braked while the manual is 3500kg braked. Not that your trailers that big but it’s something to remember.


But as a daily around town/city etc I honestly find that I drive 99% of my time in eco mode it’s more than ample but if you need that bit of extra aggression from the throttle to get past that road train and Alice springs like WA there a true train sometimes it’s one button and your in power mode.
Also the IMT (Intelligent Manual Transmission)is a cute but nice feature auto matching revs for you as you shift. Which is certainly something I wasn’t prepared for.

As for the extra 50nm in the newest luxs simple answer
safari ARMAX ECU based off the z-series ECU specs (I know they were putting the x series ECU same as the 200series with the better controls in soon or it may already be available)
But you get basically 159kw vs 130kw stock and 565nm vs 450 or 500 stock depending on age. Even comes with an engine warranty try and get that with a remap.

As for the whole auto vs manual thing look end of the day you will buy what works for you.
Personally driving my bosses 15 DC auto with basically all the same mods as my 17 dc manual I found his louder/noisier and revved higher to me in a daily drive situation. We both had safari snorkels and I felt his intake noise was far more annoying because he had a drone at certain rpm’s (one of which was 60kmh) even though I had the bigger ARMAX. And I could only put it down to how the auto makes it’s power.

A disc brake conversion honestly sounds great but I have been fine with all 3 sets of drums on my 3 utes. Stops fine for me fully loaded and there are other ways to improve braking with braided lines slotted fronts better pad materials etc before you go all out with a conversion.

What ever you choose you can’t go wrong I just hope your dealer is being honest saying you will even get a Ute.
I went into local toyota dealer here in Perth and got told 3 years to get an SR5. And they basically are no longer taking orders at this time. 3 years you might be getting a hybrid or an electric as that should be the new platform assuming toyota hold true to form so who knows what it would look like.
If you want any other details on my experience in specifics just ask.


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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby William_Foster on Thu, 06 Oct 2022 8:17 +0000

Thanks for the feedback Viper, I’ll make sure I check that with the dealer; I’ve heard of that issue ages ago but forgot all about it. The dealer was expecting further information regarding the vehicle to be released this week, but there is nothing available yet. I have to wait until the information is released because they don’t know anything other than what is written on the Toyota website. I get to cancel up to the time they confirm the build with me, so I’m comfortable that I can make a last minute change if required. Thanks for raising it with me!
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby William_Foster on Thu, 06 Oct 2022 8:24 +0000

Gipsy, they aren’t touching my current ute until the new one arrives; they offered me a good price but money in my pocket isn’t going to do me much good if I don’t have a car for 8 months.

I’ll try not to drive the test unit like I stole it, but I’ll ask about taking it on a small drive in the local hills to test it out; I’ve only driven manuals in off-road situations (not just gravel roads) so I’ll be interested to see how it goes.
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby William_Foster on Thu, 06 Oct 2022 8:33 +0000

Myralga, thanks for the feedback. It is good to hear that you manual Hilux is working well for you, I’m going to test drive an auto soon - I’ll be interested to see how it goes - it’s good to know it is still an option for the SR5 if I decide to go that way. I also glad to hear your feedback on the small dip in torque on the manual, I wasn’t thinking it would make too much a difference. I have a Denso mine-spec snorkel on my current ute, the ARMAX seems like an interesting option for my new one; thanks for the tip :)
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby wombat81 on Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:13 +0000

I have a 2021 manual, the in-laws have a 2019 auto. I'm probably biased, but I don't find the auto nice to drive. It seems to jump through the gears strangely at times. Towing with both, I can't tell any difference in torque.
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby hiluxxury on Tue, 11 Oct 2022 4:21 +0000

wombat81 wrote:I have a 2021 manual, the in-laws have a 2019 auto. I'm probably biased, but I don't find the auto nice to drive. It seems to jump through the gears strangely at times. Towing with both, I can't tell any difference in torque.


I've noticed the same with torque.

Does your in-laws have the 2020 auto software update? They are much better to drive.
I might be wrong.

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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby wombat81 on Tue, 11 Oct 2022 5:44 +0000

hiluxxury wrote:I've noticed the same with torque.

Does your in-laws have the 2020 auto software update? They are much better to drive.


I assume so, but I don't know for sure. They get all their services done at the Toyota dealer.
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby William_Foster on Tue, 11 Oct 2022 8:20 +0000

Thanks for the feedback Wombat, greatly appreciated :)
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby bcs0228 on Wed, 14 Jun 2023 6:36 +0000

Hi William,

Did you end up ordering the Rogue, and are you happy with it?

We are looking at ordering one shortly, specifically for towing a 3T van. My current 2013 hilux can only tow 2500kg.
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Re: Advice: Ordering a new Hilux

Postby William_Foster on Thu, 15 Jun 2023 5:57 +0000

Hi BCS0228,

I did end up ordering, but when the GR Hilux was announced I cancelled my order, and am now waiting desperately for the announcement of the release details. When I looked into the Rogue it just didn’t add up financially, I would have had to rip up all the tray to put on a canopy and remove all the electrics to put in a dual battery set-up. The GR Hilux is a better deal for what we need.

I hope the car hunting goes well, at least there are a few in dealerships now to try out.
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