2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

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2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby frequin on Mon, 18 Mar 2019 7:57 +0000

Hi there,

I have a 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 dual cab, brought brand new and kept pretty much stock accept for a tray back and changed the factory tyres to BFG AT's.

It's done around 65,000kms and done no real hard off roading, just the odd fire trail and bit of beach driving.

In the last 5000kms I've started to notice a shudder in the steering and brake pedal.

It only occurs when you are doing over 100kph on a freeway and brake heavily on a down hill section of road.

I've pulled the front wheels off and inspected the brakes, the disc rotors show no sign of cracks / warping or damage of any sort. The Callipers move freely and the pads and in good condition with over 50% material on them still.

All the suspension and steering joints are solid and have no signs of damage.

I had the front wheels re balanced as one of them looked like it had lost a balancing weight, The tyre shop said they where both out by around 30 grams.

However the shuddering still occurs.

The only thing I can put it down to is that one of the rotors has developed a very slight warp that is not visible to the eye and runs edge to edge all the way through the rotor and only starts to become noticeable to high speed when breaking heavily....

Does any body have any other ideas???

If it is the rotor what is your experience in having it machined?
Do they tend to warp again afterwards?
Is it best to replace the rotors instead? and if so are the factory ones known for these issues? should I replace with an aftermarket rotor?

Cheers.

Video of the shudder here-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKh3ZkR86f4&feature=youtu.be
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby gjn on Tue, 19 Mar 2019 4:53 +0000

My SR SCC did the same at 30k. No heavy braking, no riding the brakes - no obvious cause.
The symptoms were the same as yours, shuddering under braking from higher speeds.

I measured the disk run-out with a dial gauge and there was a small amount on one rotor. Not visible to the eye but showed up on the gauge.

The dealer skimmed the rotors under warranty and it's as good as gold now.
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby jimO on Tue, 19 Mar 2019 8:07 +0000

the last 3 hiluxes i have had have needed discs skimmed around 20k, i think they make them out of butter
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby justacouch on Tue, 19 Mar 2019 8:41 +0000

Had a similar issue, and and i had it back to Toyota 4 times under warranty. It was the wheel balance. Tyres were Bridgestone AT697s, the light truck version. When they finally got them balanced they had 2 weights per front wheel with one at about 10 and the other at 2 o'clock. I'll get the standard passenger radials next time.
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby frequin on Sat, 23 Mar 2019 12:45 +0000

Toyota machined the front rotors for $77.00 . Problem seems to be gone for now.
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby Markdavo on Sat, 18 Jan 2020 1:48 +0000

frequin wrote:Toyota machined the front rotors for $77.00 . Problem seems to be gone for now.



I have a similar shudder that has developed in the last 10,000kms but is only in the right front wheel and noticeable when braking at all speeds. I'm having the tyres rotated next week and will ask the tyre shop to pay particular attention to the balancing, and will check the rotor myself for any obvious damage/defects.

Did Toyota do the machining as part of your service or was it a stand-alone job?

Cheers, Mark
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby 05luxy on Wed, 05 Feb 2020 12:58 +0000

Had the same issue but i was coming down into Adelaide from the Adelaide hills. Shuddering got that bad the entire car felt like it was going to rattle to pieces and i didnt want to put my foot on the brake. Car has only done 50k regular servicing tyres always rotated and balanced every 10k. I was on holidays there from Qld and had to tow my van home so couldn't bugger about went straight to repco purchased new front rotors and new bendex h/d 4wd pads changed them that afternoon. (wasn't towing the van when this happened thank god) Have not had a problem since. Have talked to a lot of people who have had the same issue with N80 front discs warping. Think Toyota are just using shit steel myself as it seems to be a pretty conman issue. Guy was having his front disc skimmed when i was picking my hilux up from its last service.
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby m sciffer on Wed, 05 Feb 2020 3:23 +0000

hi there
a lot of cars that I have owned all my life had brake shutter and the fix was skimming the disc this seem to be machining the disc when green not allowing the disc to season . I think it is to get the cars made and out for sale .
I do remember that after the war a farmer was ploughing up his field and dug up a engine block v12 and he continued on and found more engine block buried . he found out that these blocks belong to rolls Royce . which buried them to season the metal .
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby Markdavo on Sat, 15 Feb 2020 7:33 +0000

At yesterday's service the front rotors were skimmed and brake pads replaced. As expected the shudder has gone.

Thanks for all your feedback.

Mark
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby Tony2 on Sat, 15 Feb 2020 8:14 +0000

We all know that all cars have wearing parts that need replacing so this is an easy sell for Toyota. There's no doubt this is a good money spinner for them, they have made the rotors too narrow so that they warp after only 30k-40k with no heavy breaking.
You really do get the feeling these sneaky bastards did this to keep the maintenance money ticking over. Assholes.
I'm waiting for an after market rotor to appear that will last 80k-100k.
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby Markdavo on Sat, 15 Feb 2020 9:29 +0000

Tony2 wrote:We all know that all cars have wearing parts that need replacing so this is an easy sell for Toyota. There's no doubt this is a good money spinner for them, they have made the rotors too narrow so that they warp after only 30k-40k with no heavy breaking.
You really do get the feeling these sneaky bastards did this to keep the maintenance money ticking over. Assholes.
I'm waiting for an after market rotor to appear that will last 80k-100k.


Tony, I agree with you entirely. I couldn't help feeling I was being thoroughly fleeced.

Cheers,

Mark
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby CamboT on Sun, 16 Feb 2020 7:57 +0000

Problem is driving style. So many stay in top gear when going down hill and ride the brakes to slow down which just cooks them. Then you get warped rotors.
Chop it down a gear, and use engine braking more.
Even more so if towing.
Life is natures way of keeping meat fresh
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby Pitbull80 on Mon, 17 Feb 2020 7:45 +0000

I have experienced the exact same problem with Toyota machining the disks at 20 / 40K and then replacing the disks at my request under warranty only for the problem to return shortly after.

I have since upgraded the disks for Brembo units with Bendix Ultimate 4WD pads and the issue has disappeared.

This is definitely a problem with substandard material used in the rotors, I have a 120 series Prado that runs the same front brake setup as the Hilux and in the 10 years I have owned it the disks have not required machining once and it gets driven a lot harder than the Hilux does.

As for the "driving style" excuse, my wife drives the Prado day in day out (which is a V6 petrol) and she has 2 speeds - flat on the gas or flat on the brakes - so I'm not overly sure that argument holds water.
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby CamboT on Mon, 17 Feb 2020 4:09 +0000

Driving in town compared to highway and hill work is different.
I highly doubt going from set of lights to set of lights will smoke a set of brakes and rotors.
And yes driving style is a huge problem with people who can't drive properly.
I mean why would you leave the vehicle in D, or 5th, while trying to slow up while towing and or going down hill or from highway speeds.
The number of test drives i have been on with customers when they've complained about brake shudder and they simply can't drive for shit is amazing!
Some people just don't get it. Others its like a light goes off in their head when you tell them.
Hilux brakes are some of the best, if not the best brakes on the market for the vehicle type. They are simply far superior to so many out there.
I have towed race cars all around NZ in my Hilux and have never had brake shudder.
Genuine brake pads only used, and genuine rotors as original as they came from the factory.
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Re: 2016 SR5 4x4 V6 steering / brake shudder

Postby Tony2 on Tue, 18 Feb 2020 3:16 +0000

Pitbull80 wrote:I have experienced the exact same problem with Toyota machining the disks at 20 / 40K and then replacing the disks at my request under warranty only for the problem to return shortly after.

I have since upgraded the disks for Brembo units with Bendix Ultimate 4WD pads and the issue has disappeared.

This is definitely a problem with substandard material used in the rotors, I have a 120 series Prado that runs the same front brake setup as the Hilux and in the 10 years I have owned it the disks have not required machining once and it gets driven a lot harder than the Hilux does.

As for the "driving style" excuse, my wife drives the Prado day in day out (which is a V6 petrol) and she has 2 speeds - flat on the gas or flat on the brakes - so I'm not overly sure that argument holds water.


Thanks Pitbull
When the breaks get to the point that they are annoying me I'm not even going to bother machining them to try and get another 15k. I'm going down your path, upgrade. Its the weakest link of this car.
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