Dual Batteries for dummies

[pisso01]

Aquaholics.

From your explanation above I get the impression that without the smart pass unit the d250s will be a bit slower to charge. Would this be much slower than having a conventional Isolator? Im looking to rewire my entire dual battery system and accessories. Ive never seen the Aux batteries (I run two 100a/h in parallel) get below 12.5V with my current system. So my thinking is that the Ctec d250s should still keep up even if it charges slower than my current setup does because I dont use much battery life anyway.

Then later if I added the Smart Pass unit it would mean that if my batteries got low it would charge them up quickly using the alternator to a point and then top then up more with the 250s Dual.

Have I got all this right? Looks like Ive killed my second alternator in 12 months (at nearly a grand a pop) so im looking to take some load off it with the Ctek d250s. Does everyone agree this would be the way?

Cheers,

Chris.

[Aquaholics]

Aquaholics.

From your explanation above I get the impression that without the smart pass unit the d250s will be a bit slower to charge. Would this be much slower than having a conventional Isolator?

Hi Chris,

The D250S with it's maximum output of 20amps and 14.4volts will charge your second battery without any problems. Sure the additional amps you get when combined with the Smartpass will reduce the charge time but if you are not running your second battery down then the system would sense that and not push up to 80 amps into it.

So far the lowest I have seen my second battery is around 60% of it's capacity so my battery monitor says. The maximum amps I have seen the D250S and Smartpass pump into it was 60amps for around 3-4min then it dropped back to about 30amps for a while then down to 20 and so on as it went through it charging process (5 steps).

The additional amps the smartpass provides did have some sway in my reasoning I installed one but it was more for the disconnection of services to the second battery should I drain it to the point that may damage it was the main reason I installed one.

I hope that helps,

Cheers
Ben

[Vylen]

After a lot of reading, I decided to go for the Ctek D250S Dual with an ARB Battery Tray... haven't decided on a battery yet but I'll work with what my budget will allow. Also, I'm being a good boy by buying some 100amp Mega Fuses for the batteries to be on the safe side.

That all said, I actually went out today to buy and install the battery tray ($138 from ARB, totally worth it), and, while diligently following the instructions, I learned that the electrical relays for the lights and indicators on my bullbar in an inconvenient location - i.e. where the tray should go.



As to be expected, the cables are pretty short and the thing can't be relocated easily... so, in the interim. I've attached it to the inside of the tray.



I'll need to ask an auto-electrician to help me fix this up. I don't have the know-how or the tools to do this myself - I'm currently down in Melbourne for work till June so I barely have any tools on me to help.... bah.

[10 luxxxx]

All you will need is some cable and a soldering iron mate give it a go just do one wire at a time so you don't loose track.

[Vylen]

All you will need is some cable and a soldering iron mate give it a go just do one wire at a time so you don't loose track.

Actually, I'm tempted to velcro the relays and what-not to the top of the fuse box - except I can't seem to get the big relays off the metal bracket...



It seems like I just need to push them upwards, except they don't want to budge... and I don't want to break anything by being too forceful. Any ideas anyone?

[10 luxxxx]

If you unscrew it you will see a little tab on the back you need to get a little screw driver in to lift it over if you know what I mean.

[Vylen]

So continuing this on-going project, I got the above stuff sorted out last week and this Sunday I spent time working on the car including creating cables and wiring them through the firewall.

I ended up buying 3 B&S cables (cause bigger is better) but my main concern was routing them from the engine bay into the cabin via the grommet in the firewall.

Turns out with enough vaseline you can wire anything through that thing:


The final thing I did was start to connect the lugs to my Ctek D250S Dual... the positive lugs were fine but to my dismay, after a long day of hard work, I was defeated by the negative lugs - they were too thick to allow 2 to be screwed into the unit at once.

Ctek, however, are friggen awesome - I emailed them about my predicament and they just got back to me saying that they have longer ones that can be used and they'll mail them out to me. So - very stoked!

[Vylen]

I guess it takes a while to get bolts/screws mailed from Sweden... so I haven't finished yet..

But, I did manage to get the thing mounted beside the glove box today...

A couple people have managed to do it as well but without much mention of how - Argon essentially cable-tied his to the car body.

I made up some metal arms/brackets to screw the unit on to:


The cables along the top make it a tight squeeze - I should have probably moved them or something but it turned out to be ok the way it is:


Although, if it is true that the Ctek unit gets pretty hot, I might end up moving those cables in the end...

[cizzink11]

I have a arb tray with a big deep cycle and I was gernieing under my guards and suspension the other day and noticed cracks in the wheel arch where the second battery sits.. how do I fix this?

[SRD4D]

I have a arb tray with a big deep cycle and I was gernieing under my guards and suspension the other day and noticed cracks in the wheel arch where the second battery sits.. how do I fix this?

mmmm,remove battery straight away,take the load off it,your going to need to weld it back up or tie it up with screw and a plate depends which way you want to go.

they have to be supported back to the top of the inner gaurd frame in some way and use big washers to spread the load across the base area.
mine is made out of steel angle and and i think it needs a frame on the under side of the gaurd to stop the flex as well.



ABR sidewinder controller,resetable breakers, in between batteries and controller, 105AH fullriver,as well as a Ctek 250 dual unit in the tub for the temporay third battery back up. not quite finished yet.

[2007Lux]

Just a heads up on a good little article about duel batteries in latest 4wd action mag (#198). It's a bit bit of a summary about the different types of components one can use in a set up and a few tips. If you are new to this thread it will serve as a good starting point

[bern5]

what about DIY kits like these? recommended or .......??

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251159721376

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/321089674007

[Talktheroo]

If I was starting from scratch like you I would install a 100 or 120 amp agm battery and a Dc-dc charger setup , most likely the Cteck 250s dual
I can point you to some sites that have good pricing on these two items if you are interested
From there you could talk to a local auto electrician to do an install
The main thing is to start with the good basic components so you don't waste money changing later

Others here in the electrical field can give you more technical answers if you are looking to fit yourself but I think most will agree with my basic ingredients list

I am with Alby on this. On the newer vehicles you need to boost that current. Otherwise, the second battery will not get charged properly. The Ctek 250 Dual unit is the best price and the best unit for this job. You can also plug in solar to this unit, as well.
You can use a parallel system if you want, but you will need to charge up the batteries with an AC unit from time to time. With the DC to DC units, you don't really have to do this.
The Roo.

[Talktheroo]

I guess it takes a while to get bolts/screws mailed from Sweden... so I haven't finished yet..

But, I did manage to get the thing mounted beside the glove box today...

A couple people have managed to do it as well but without much mention of how - Argon essentially cable-tied his to the car body.

I made up some metal arms/brackets to screw the unit on to:


The cables along the top make it a tight squeeze - I should have probably moved them or something but it turned out to be ok the way it is:


Although, if it is true that the Ctek unit gets pretty hot, I might end up moving those cables in the end...

Just run some cable to an Anderson plug set up for your solar panels mate. That's if you are going to have or ever use solar, of course.
Like where you mounted the unit, looks good.
The Roo.

[2007Lux]

Just thought I'd touch on a topic of auto-reset breakers which was discussed in the following thread.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16736&hilit=breakers

I thought best to continue this under the Dual Batts for Dummies thread as it is closely related??

Anyway I have been speaking with a couple more people in the auto electrical trade and they both said auto resets are best suited for critical operations like break controllers and the like. Now I am starting to think about my choice of autoresets for my BCDC1220. My current thoughts are to put in manual resets and then monitor the status of the BCDC via a in cab battery monitor which would tell me if my unit has tripped out. If you have a look at my earlier posts I had a the BCDC initally set up with fuses and the output one blew. I only noticed it once my fridge had drawn down my aux battery and the temp inside the fridge started to rise.

[2007Lux]

Just thought I'd touch on a topic of auto-reset breakers which was discussed in the following thread.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16736&hilit=breakers

I thought best to continue this under the Dual Batts for Dummies thread as it is closely related??

Anyway I have been speaking with a couple more people in the auto electrical trade and they both said auto resets are best suited for critical operations like break controllers and the like. Now I am starting to think about my choice of autoresets for my BCDC1220. My current thoughts are to put in manual resets and then monitor the status of the BCDC via a in cab battery monitor which would tell me if my unit has tripped out. If you have a look at my earlier posts I had a the BCDC initally set up with fuses and the output one blew. I only noticed it once my fridge had drawn down my aux battery and the temp inside the fridge started to rise.

or I guess I could just add the battery monitor to my current set up which, if I were watching it enough, would alert me to a fault soon enough

[sypher]

HI guys,

after reading this I decided to go with the CTek D250s Dual for my dual battery system, but after looking it up on ebay from sidewinder (get most my stuff from him) it states this

*DISCLAIMER We have sold many of these units with 100% satisfaction but of late some vehicles now run a sophisticated charging system that "in laymans terms" the alternator charges at such a low voltage that it "fools" this standard type of DC to DC charger into thinking the vehicle is stationary therefore not charging the auxiliary battery .This mainly applies to some vehicles after 2010 . Please contact us if you are not sure if this unit is compatible or not in your situation.

So I sent him a message, and asked if it would suit my 2012 SR5 and the answer was no. He said that the redarc BCDC1225LV or BCDC1240LV would suit. Also another option is this

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300650227885 ... 26_rdc%3D1

Has anyone heard of this before with the cteks?

Thanks Shaun

[Qwerty]

hmmm not entirely sure waht that's about, but i'm guessing that what they refer to is that the alternators reduce their output at idle?

Or are they talking about the ford rangers which have a shunt and actually "inteliigently" modify alternator output based on its own assumptions regarding load?? They do that to reduce fuel load and emissions, but the reality often is haphazard charging. My VE SS used to do it and id alwys get flat batteries. The holden foreman described the ECU Controlled charging algoritm as "completely retarded". The hilux does NOT do that.

I reckon the issue you refer to above is to do with rangers and other moderm ECU-Controlled alternators. HIlux is old school, as such (a good thing)

Frankly though, id think the redarc and cteks all suffer same fate... if they see a reduced alternator output, they think the alternator isnt coping, and so they switch themselves off. (unless what they actually mean is that the ctek DOESNT switch itself off, and you end up wiht a flat starter ... but even if thats true and you have a redarc, that sucks immensely because you won't be charging aux very often).

As to the former issue I mention regarding output while "idling", that simply means that at say 600RPM idling, the alternator drops its output ... voltage drops, and my DC-DC charger sees taht, and switches itself off (it realises the alternator output is low, and removes itself from charging the aux until the engine revs kick back in... it does this to protect the starter, or at least remove itself from the equation).

I have an "idle up" aftermarket switch on my car ... so if im idling around in dunes at night, or stationary, and have high beams, fogs, spotties, light bars ... stereo, DC-DC (redarc) all pulling load, i flick my idle-up switch to 1100rpm ... thus ensuring my alternator is spinning up.

Otherwise i face a situation where i get a discharge of my starter battery (even when the DC-DC has long since removed itself from the equation) ... purely based on load.

I also idle up when using air compressor, to give as much amps into my compressor as possible.

[aandy]

Mine is a 2011 facelift Hilux, I have a Ctek DcDc and it works flawlessly.

The Ctek requires a certain voltage to trigger it and start charging the second battery, the hilux achieves this even with all the electrical loads turned on. Might be a different story if you had 8 huge spotties or something silly like that but in that case your alternator is running out of puff and couldnt charge the battery anyway.

The Hilux does not have a smart charging system like a new Ranger, we are living in the dark ages and would like to stay there thank you very much.

I would say he doesnt know what a Hilux is or he makes more money from the other chargers.

[Qwerty]

yeah i think the guy is referring to rangers and stuff. THough, even then ... id think the redarc would have same issue (ie , it wont charge if voltage is low, it shuts itself off).