Re: Alternator
Posted: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 6:19 +0000
Qwerty,
yes - the two deep cycle batteries I have had are/were "wet" cells - I don't know much about calcium or AGM types - the one in my 'lux did all we needed and was still up at its capacity when the vehicle was sold. The one in our van is coming up to 2 years old - and is used extensively (main power source for van - runs everything, but is under constant charge when connected to 240, 12 Anderson from tow vehicle or solar)... it is stil at capacity and allows us 2 days reserve if not able to charge.
The one in the 'lux needed topping up twice in the two years. The one in the van is maintenance free. Both have charge "condition" indicators.... red/clear/green - I haven't seen them go to red.. went clear a few times if needed charging.
Strangenuts - yes, something for you to consider - you have a great truck - it deserves upholding it's bullet-proof reputation by employing a bullet-proof wiring installation...
Relays - come back to this if you're not ready... but a few simple words will dispell the great mystery of relays....
Moderators! I probably should make a separate post with this - stomp on me if you want me to copy and paste it... then I'll come back and delete........
Relays - the simple ones....
Very, very simply put - it is a switch. To turn it on - you simply put 12v to it - end of story.
Now, what it does - when you switch it on (we'll get to that next) - it makes connections to the job you want it to do........ eg - if you want it to turn on a light - you connect a wire ( called a lead) from your battery to one terminal of the relay - and from another termiinal of the relay to the light. When the relay gets turned on - the two terminals get connected joining your two leads and the light comes on...... not rocket science... but confusing to many - it took me quite a while to realise that the great relay mystery was just so simple.... most make it hard - thinking it is complicated - it's not....
This next bit is where people get lost...... take a breath and put that stubby down for a sec...
To make the relay turn on (close, it's called) - you have to run power to it........ and you have to run an earth to it (usually the vehicle body).
To simplify understanding this - think of making the relay work the same as a light - it needs one lead from 12v and one from earth. When it gets both - the relay turns on.
At the end of the day - all you are doing is using one switch (the relay) to turn another one (the relay contacts inside)on/off.
The biggest advantage is - that a relay only uses/needs a very small/thin wire and power to turn it on/off.... there are only milli amps needed.... but - and this is mainly why they are used - that relay can make 30, 40 or even 70 amp heavy cabling turn on off..... as in "spotties", power supplies to fridges, power to compressors and even huge relays (called solenoids as in starter motor etc) to winches and battery to battery connections.
There are also many "clever" ways you can make them do things - but we'll keep it simple here and just make it turn on and off a light..... that's all you'll probably use one for in the near future.......
Go buy one (they are pretty cheap - Bursons, SuperCheap, Repco etc.... Narva are as good as any - five dollars maybe) and have a play - it's the way you are going to put the above into practice.... they are pretty cheap and you can't damage them unless you make them "switch" power to something much heavier than they can handle.......
Usually the 40 amp ones are used - you can do a lot with a 40A relay.
You'll need a relay and a bit of left over wire.... cut into four lengths. If you want to play at a higher level you can fit female spade terminals on one end of each wire (lead.... we should call these "leads") these slip onto the male spade terminals of the relay ... but you're just going to waste them for the purpose of this execise.... and simply putting the leads through the little holes in the relay and twisting them will be quite good enough... as long as they don't touch each other. You'll also need a 12v globe and some way of connecting it to two of the leads.. solder if you can or even an old globe socket with two leads coming out of it...... that's the easiest way..... if you do this - make sure the blasted thing works by connecting it directly to the battery terminals... I'd hate to have you do the following if the globe or the holder and its wires aren't working......
There are two types of those small black box automotive relays........ get one of the four pin (terminal) ones.... there is also a five pin - and if you want more on what the 5 can do beyond the four - let me know and I'll give you a bit more on this...... it's not much, but I'll confuse you even more if I add it here....
When you get it, you will see there are four pins underneath and they are all marked with a number - these numbers never change..... once you learn this - you have it forever.....
the numbers are - 30, 87....... 85 and 86.
The first two we will call the "switch" pins - just like any other "switch" you have used.
One wire in - one out..... turn the switch on and the two wires make contact........ same deal here - when the relay is "on" - the lead from 30 gets connected to the lead at 87 - exactly the same as a normal "mechanical" switch.
The second two we will call the "switching" pins - this is the same as any other thing you might have turned on or off (light, radio, camera etc.).
The big difference about switching a relay on or off is that you are turning on and off another switch (inside the relay) this is what you hear clunk when it turns on or off.
This inside switch can then turn something even bigger on or off..... make sense...? I hope so......
Write the following down....... it won't take long before you don't ever need to look at it again...
85 and 86 are the "switching" pins........ it doesn't matter which one of these you put your 12v to - it will work either way.
12v goes to one of these - earth to the other.
30 and 87 are the "switched' pins...... again - doesn't matter which way power comes from with a 4 pin.... 5 is different and we'll go through that later if you want to enjoy a bit more "fun"......
Now the good bit -grab your relay, leads and globe then go find a 12v battery.
Run a lead from 85 to the negative terminal of your battery - and connect a lead to 86 - don't connect this one to the battery - we are just going to touch and let go this from the battery positive.
To make sure your relay "works".....touch connect the other end of the 86 lead to the positive of the battery - you'll hear the relay "close"...... when this happens - it joins the other two pins......... 30 and 87 together and turns on the "switch".... that's all that is happening inside - two contacts are closing and opening as you touch/remove the 86 lead.
If you want to "see" this happen - connect a lead from 30 to the positive battery terminal and another from 87 to a light globe terminal.
Connect a lead from the negative terminal of the battery to the body of the light globe.
Do NOT.. did I mention NOT - connect positive to 30 and negative to 87..... or positive to 87 and negative to 30 or you'll make a "short" when you switch the relay on.
This is the ONLY thing you have to be careful of...... you wouldn't run a lead from your positive battery terminal to the negative battery terminal - would you...? same deal - 30 and 87 are joined (closed) when you switch on your relay..... they simply make the connection.
So, now we have the complete relay thingy..... with the above connections made... final check -
85 to battery negative, 86 about to be loosely connected (touch and let go) to battery positive.
30 to battery positive.
87 to light globe terminal.
Lead from battery negative to body of light globe.
Now, touch the loose lead to the battery again....... voila! the relay goes "clunk" and the light globe shows you what the inside of the relay has done.........
Remove the loose lead - and "clunk" again... and the light goes out........
That's it, strangenuts - you are now savvy with relays.......
Simply - as mentioned way up above - it's just an electrical switch which turns on another switch.....
Let me know if you want the next "lesson".... we can do many, many things with relays...... they are "old" school now - but unless you want to start learning electronics and integrated circuits.... many of us simple souls will continue to use them for as long as they are available......
sorry for the long post.... aaarrggghhhh, relays - why do people shudder when they are really just so simple....
frats,
Rosco
yes - the two deep cycle batteries I have had are/were "wet" cells - I don't know much about calcium or AGM types - the one in my 'lux did all we needed and was still up at its capacity when the vehicle was sold. The one in our van is coming up to 2 years old - and is used extensively (main power source for van - runs everything, but is under constant charge when connected to 240, 12 Anderson from tow vehicle or solar)... it is stil at capacity and allows us 2 days reserve if not able to charge.
The one in the 'lux needed topping up twice in the two years. The one in the van is maintenance free. Both have charge "condition" indicators.... red/clear/green - I haven't seen them go to red.. went clear a few times if needed charging.
Strangenuts - yes, something for you to consider - you have a great truck - it deserves upholding it's bullet-proof reputation by employing a bullet-proof wiring installation...
Relays - come back to this if you're not ready... but a few simple words will dispell the great mystery of relays....
Moderators! I probably should make a separate post with this - stomp on me if you want me to copy and paste it... then I'll come back and delete........
Relays - the simple ones....
Very, very simply put - it is a switch. To turn it on - you simply put 12v to it - end of story.
Now, what it does - when you switch it on (we'll get to that next) - it makes connections to the job you want it to do........ eg - if you want it to turn on a light - you connect a wire ( called a lead) from your battery to one terminal of the relay - and from another termiinal of the relay to the light. When the relay gets turned on - the two terminals get connected joining your two leads and the light comes on...... not rocket science... but confusing to many - it took me quite a while to realise that the great relay mystery was just so simple.... most make it hard - thinking it is complicated - it's not....
This next bit is where people get lost...... take a breath and put that stubby down for a sec...
To make the relay turn on (close, it's called) - you have to run power to it........ and you have to run an earth to it (usually the vehicle body).
To simplify understanding this - think of making the relay work the same as a light - it needs one lead from 12v and one from earth. When it gets both - the relay turns on.
At the end of the day - all you are doing is using one switch (the relay) to turn another one (the relay contacts inside)on/off.
The biggest advantage is - that a relay only uses/needs a very small/thin wire and power to turn it on/off.... there are only milli amps needed.... but - and this is mainly why they are used - that relay can make 30, 40 or even 70 amp heavy cabling turn on off..... as in "spotties", power supplies to fridges, power to compressors and even huge relays (called solenoids as in starter motor etc) to winches and battery to battery connections.
There are also many "clever" ways you can make them do things - but we'll keep it simple here and just make it turn on and off a light..... that's all you'll probably use one for in the near future.......
Go buy one (they are pretty cheap - Bursons, SuperCheap, Repco etc.... Narva are as good as any - five dollars maybe) and have a play - it's the way you are going to put the above into practice.... they are pretty cheap and you can't damage them unless you make them "switch" power to something much heavier than they can handle.......
Usually the 40 amp ones are used - you can do a lot with a 40A relay.
You'll need a relay and a bit of left over wire.... cut into four lengths. If you want to play at a higher level you can fit female spade terminals on one end of each wire (lead.... we should call these "leads") these slip onto the male spade terminals of the relay ... but you're just going to waste them for the purpose of this execise.... and simply putting the leads through the little holes in the relay and twisting them will be quite good enough... as long as they don't touch each other. You'll also need a 12v globe and some way of connecting it to two of the leads.. solder if you can or even an old globe socket with two leads coming out of it...... that's the easiest way..... if you do this - make sure the blasted thing works by connecting it directly to the battery terminals... I'd hate to have you do the following if the globe or the holder and its wires aren't working......
There are two types of those small black box automotive relays........ get one of the four pin (terminal) ones.... there is also a five pin - and if you want more on what the 5 can do beyond the four - let me know and I'll give you a bit more on this...... it's not much, but I'll confuse you even more if I add it here....
When you get it, you will see there are four pins underneath and they are all marked with a number - these numbers never change..... once you learn this - you have it forever.....
the numbers are - 30, 87....... 85 and 86.
The first two we will call the "switch" pins - just like any other "switch" you have used.
One wire in - one out..... turn the switch on and the two wires make contact........ same deal here - when the relay is "on" - the lead from 30 gets connected to the lead at 87 - exactly the same as a normal "mechanical" switch.
The second two we will call the "switching" pins - this is the same as any other thing you might have turned on or off (light, radio, camera etc.).
The big difference about switching a relay on or off is that you are turning on and off another switch (inside the relay) this is what you hear clunk when it turns on or off.
This inside switch can then turn something even bigger on or off..... make sense...? I hope so......
Write the following down....... it won't take long before you don't ever need to look at it again...
85 and 86 are the "switching" pins........ it doesn't matter which one of these you put your 12v to - it will work either way.
12v goes to one of these - earth to the other.
30 and 87 are the "switched' pins...... again - doesn't matter which way power comes from with a 4 pin.... 5 is different and we'll go through that later if you want to enjoy a bit more "fun"......
Now the good bit -grab your relay, leads and globe then go find a 12v battery.
Run a lead from 85 to the negative terminal of your battery - and connect a lead to 86 - don't connect this one to the battery - we are just going to touch and let go this from the battery positive.
To make sure your relay "works".....touch connect the other end of the 86 lead to the positive of the battery - you'll hear the relay "close"...... when this happens - it joins the other two pins......... 30 and 87 together and turns on the "switch".... that's all that is happening inside - two contacts are closing and opening as you touch/remove the 86 lead.
If you want to "see" this happen - connect a lead from 30 to the positive battery terminal and another from 87 to a light globe terminal.
Connect a lead from the negative terminal of the battery to the body of the light globe.
Do NOT.. did I mention NOT - connect positive to 30 and negative to 87..... or positive to 87 and negative to 30 or you'll make a "short" when you switch the relay on.
This is the ONLY thing you have to be careful of...... you wouldn't run a lead from your positive battery terminal to the negative battery terminal - would you...? same deal - 30 and 87 are joined (closed) when you switch on your relay..... they simply make the connection.
So, now we have the complete relay thingy..... with the above connections made... final check -
85 to battery negative, 86 about to be loosely connected (touch and let go) to battery positive.
30 to battery positive.
87 to light globe terminal.
Lead from battery negative to body of light globe.
Now, touch the loose lead to the battery again....... voila! the relay goes "clunk" and the light globe shows you what the inside of the relay has done.........
Remove the loose lead - and "clunk" again... and the light goes out........
That's it, strangenuts - you are now savvy with relays.......
Simply - as mentioned way up above - it's just an electrical switch which turns on another switch.....
Let me know if you want the next "lesson".... we can do many, many things with relays...... they are "old" school now - but unless you want to start learning electronics and integrated circuits.... many of us simple souls will continue to use them for as long as they are available......
sorry for the long post.... aaarrggghhhh, relays - why do people shudder when they are really just so simple....
frats,
Rosco