Alternator

[Qwerty]

You don't

Starter charges off your alternator lik normal. In normal operation your starter doesn't do much discharging.

Dc charger is for aux battery mate , and you wire sockets (I've got three feeds) straight from aux battery. The car alty sees a dc charger simply as an appliance needing power (same as a pair of spotties )

Ie starter is for engine only. Aux for everything else (fridge freezer etc). I rewired my factory sat nav deck and two amps (sub and speakers) from aux battery so I can crank tunes on beach without ever worrying about my starter

Basically under a dc charger setup you would two independent power grids , rather than it all being communal and isolated via solenoid

[Qwerty]

Ps if you DO manage for some reason to kill starter you can easily bridge to your aux with jumper leads to get going. (did this once when I left frickin keys on on with air fan running)

[Qwerty]

My setup (my sparky Mate did it)

Basically everything powered by aux battery is not connected at all to the stock toyota wiring system. Totally independent circuits.

I could rip out starter battery and my fridges / stereo would keep running.

In a smart solenoid / isolater setup you're wiring into the same common grid and co-charging off alternator , when voltages drop during use , it isolates the starter. I much much prefer two separate circuits and dc charging. Leaving starter to do engine duties and nothing else.

[strangenuts]

Cheers mate I'm slowly getting my head around it, a DC charger is the way I will most likely go.
When I get my ute I plan on putting two 100w driving lights on, and when spotlighting I may have another two 100w spotties going, I'm wondering if this will be too much for my alternator?

[Qwerty]

D4d or v6?

You'll be fine mate I'd say.

I do have a v6 and they only have 80amp alty (at peak condition) so when I'm idling around in dunes at night with high beams , lightforce , fogs , ac fan , demistors on I start to push alternator ,, if I'm also got dc charger sucking 20-30amps it starts to not keep up.

It's simply a case of managing the situation ... If you're idling / stopped , don't leave every possible appliance running !!

Good thing about dc charger tho ... In that situation it detects that alty can't keep up and removes itself by switching off. This means you don't get charge to aux battery but means you still get charge (no discharge) of starter which is powering your critical stuff

In practice it's never been an issue for me ... And only a problem on v6 , d4d has a stronger alternator

[Qwerty]

Most blokes on here have no trouble running tons of lights. Just make sure you have a voltmeter if possible so you can see a situation developing (ie if youre bumbling around on a beach at idle snd notice voltages in the low 12's you're Probly not charging well

No alternator output is great at idle most need revs

[strangenuts]

It's a D4D, what do do guys put a voltmeter gauge in the cab you mean?

[Qwerty]

Youll Be sweet mate , d4d is 130amp I believe (I think)

Yeh you can get a cheap volt meter that plugs into cig lighter socket , or just multimeter periodic spot check , or best is wire in a proper volt meter with 2 way switch , so u can monitor voltages on both grids at flick of switch. This is what I'm getting soon (got parts but need to tie down my mate who's auto sparky) , will be a schmick little red led readout with a switch to choose which circuit to monitor

Note : using cig plug will read lower than actual battery because the Toyota wiring suffers bit of volt drop

Ie just ran out to car and took photo , reads 12.8 on battery but in car off cig lighter it reads bit lower

Either way it helps you to see any problem and act before you kill a battery (or decide to reduce Load etc

[Qwerty]

Btw that was engine off , and starter circuit (not aux circuit , those outlets are in the back)

This is with engine on ;



If i saw it drop into the 12's with engine running I'd think "ok I have problem" ... And I'd think twice before switching engine off (at least until I got to camp /safe)

As I said have never had an actual problem in real world , just in driveway stress testing found a weakness that over time would cause problem if not acted on. (idling for 2hrs in gear with every spotty lit = u might get a discharge on starter). Not likely

[strangenuts]

Pretty cool little gadget. Thanks for the info. I havn't even got my ute yet and the plans are building nicely.

[Qwerty]

Awesome mate you'll be fine, just learn to monitor your systems.

Find a good auto sparky. Old school sparkys may baulk or not even know what dc charging is, avoid them

Had mine at Toyota , and their sparky was like wtf is this dc charging business. Wasn't even aware of dc charging or its benefits and advocated smart solenoid as the only way to do it.

[rosco01]

Ok - just a couple of things.
My little truck has now gone to its next owner...... but I have a little bit to offer - both from the 'lux and its supercessor.

I had an aux batt fitted in the tub of the 'lux. I used RanOx to charge this deep cycle battery to 100% SOC during running - and it performed flawlessly.
A DC - DC charger is designed/intended to use the output from the crank battery (under charge) to re-charge the aux battery (usually deep cycle).

The crank battery (in the engine bay) will, in normal operation - never reach anywhere near 100% SOC - and is not inteded to. The alternator regulator output is desiigned to make adjustments for engine bay temp - hence it will never allow the crank battery to get "cooked" - overcharged. Crank battery SOC is reduced with temperature - and the clever Hilux algorithm is set to prevent damage to the primary concern of charging and maintainig the crank battery - not any /
additional battery.

The last place you would want to place and auxiliary battery is in the engine bay.

As for VSR (votage sensing relay) - this is where I'm at with the 'cruiser.

A VSR will protect a crank battery from discharging when there isn't a charge from the alternator.
Quite simply - it is a voltage controlled solenoid which isolates the crank battery from the auxiliary.
When there isn't a charge going to the crank battery, the VSR solenoid isolates the crank battery from all loads demanded of the aux battery.
When the crank battery reaches a certain voltage - the VSR cuts back in and allows the aux battery to charge - in unison with the crank battery.
This quite simply means that the aux battery will never reach 100% SOC - but equal that of the crank battery - sometimes around 70%.

There IS a big danger here - if the aux battery and crank battery are of different designs (ie deep cycle and crank) - the two in unison will compromise each other - the deep cycle will convince the alternator regulator that more is needed - the crank will convince that 70% SOC is approaching its "charged" status.... clearly, the two are not compatable in a "parallel" configuration..........

So, at the end of another "rosco" novel.....

my suggestion would be to locate an aux battery away from the engine bay - use a DC-DC charger to bring a deep cycle aux up to 100% SOC.

This permits the Hilux alternator regulator to do its allocated job - as designed by engineers - to recharge and maintain the crank battery in the engine bay.

The installation of a DC-DC charger - allows the deep cycle aux battery to fully charge and supply loads (fridges etc) completely independent of the crank battery.
The smarter DC-DC chargers allow a "load relay" change-over - this affords "switching" between the crank battery supply (with engine running/alternator output) to supply external loads - and disconnects the crank battery (with engine stopped/no alternator output) which switches to the aux battery.

This is what I effected in my little truck - and as mentioned, peformed flawlessly in every application to which we subjected it........

I would NOT employ a VSR for the purpose of connecting a deep cycle battery to the crank battery - the three (reg output, crank battery and deep cycle battery will fight each other until one gives up).....

frats,
Rosco

[Qwerty]

Yeh id agree that if
U can put aux batt in tray them great.

For me though , I couldn't , I have canopy and sleeping for two. (need room , and didn't want fumes in my sleeping quarters)

Haven't had much trouble with heat tho i do expect my battery won't last quite as long in engine bay as it might in cooler location , but that's a compromise I was happy to make

I had originally had a leaky wet cell deep cycle but found she leaked a lot and I neglected it too often.

Now have a maint free lead acid (n70 tray size , 105ah , 800cca all rounder)

V6 in particular is a very hot engine bay.

My sparky mate just today setup his new 70series ute , he went for same battery in the engine bay. He's got a 40amp dc charger. No smart switch over (overkill really).

There are many ways to skin a cat , that's for sure

Just been at mates place and he's got digital ammeter and dual voltage readouts, my car will be next

[rosco01]

Qwerty - you've done a neat job of your installation - I particularly like you use of the 1220.... far too many people believe that simply placing another battery in the bay and splitting it is all that is needed - until they start chewing out both batteries...

Yes, can appreciate that many applications don't afford locating the aux in the the tub.... and fitting an additional frame under the rear chassis is sometimes not appropriate.......

With min, I ran 4 B&S through convoluted conduit...... th engineers at RanOx took pix of my installation - I hope the bloke who has it now appreciates JUST what I did ...... sob, sob, sob.... talk about the bloke who didn't "put the handbrake on..." I miss my little truck... think of it often.....

Cruiser is not all it's cracked up to be... yes, quiet - smooth, powerful and incredible brakes.... but at $90K - it's not "two" 'luxes...... I loved my little truck - and if stupid Mr. Tojo had done his sums - I'd still have it.... blasted 2,250 kg limt........ and now, with almost NO change - 2012, 2,500 kg and I'd be "legal" with the van..... talk about sour grapes, Mr Tojo - but you have your sale..... ulterior motive!

Qwerty - if ever you can, and need structural change to the rear of your truck - a battery box and some decent cabling - your worries will be forever over with an aux in the back and that 1220........ fit and forget!
Does the 1220 have outputs for relays?... if so, a load change-over relay will completely furnish all your needs - and leave the crank battery completely independent of an auxiliary functions. You can also have the relay switch on a trailer camera - and the "power" pin of your trailer socket.... so that a caravan fridge will only switch to 12v when your engine is running....... can you now see what I let go... sob, sob, sob......... let the tide come in and bring me back my little truck too!

frats,
Rosco

p.s. - I hope everyone associates that add with me...... yes, cruiser is a magic beast .... but you chaps still with your 'lux's ........ green, green, green....... with envy!

[Qwerty]

Ha ha I have my sparky mate to thank for the perfectionist install. Getting the sockets into tray under tuff dek with canopy already fitted took some work!!

Pretty happy with it all for now mate. Not worried about the smart load changeover stuff , works a treat how it currently is.


Mates 40amp dc install underway ;

[rosco01]

All good, Querty - "horses for courses"....

Just in case anyone else is watching this - PM me and I'll explain just what a load change-over relay can do to simplify functions..... it really is a case of turn off the key and the system runs itself....... turn it on and it re-charges the aux - and runs the van fridge and camera..... too easy.....

I can believe just what you must have done to get under that tuff tray..... I look back at how I got that conduit to run inside the chassis rails and get to the tub....... I could do it again - but would need more than the three days it took me the first time....... I'd better not learn that the bloke pulled out my installation........ "mona lisa" wasn't over-painted! take a peek at my "fridge/slide post" if you want an example of "over-engineer"..... cruiser didn't get anywhere near the effort.....

I fitted some 70 & 100 A switching circuit breakers (Jaycar have them) to my install - four in total ...... the outlay far outweighed the reassurance vs expense.... and proved to be quite useful when isolating loads...... it's just peace of mind when you leave your truck for a few days and come back to find it in one piece.... then read about someone else's shorting out and catching fire..... heavy cabling results in huge currents....... not he thin lengths of 10A leads we ran as kids to power our tape decks and driving lights..... this (4 B&S) is "serious" stuff..... batteries for D4-D vehicles have huge reserves........ $100 worth of circuit breakers is very cheap insurance............. protection in both directions (crank and aux)......

Good work, Qwerty - your work certainly accomodates your needs... but, in the many, many years you'll have "your" truck (sob, sob, sob).... if you plan to enhance...... remember these posts....

frats,
Rosco

[strangenuts]

I'm getting a tray back ute so was thinking of mounting the aux batt in a frame under the tray. I don't have a lot to run off the aux, I more wanted one for the security of having another battery, thus I would like to be able to start off the aux in an emergency. I was told about the batteries that are half deep cycle, half cranking, what the local ARB set up use. (but this set up doesn't use a DC charger I don't think) What are those batteries like, And will it be ok to have a second battery that far from the engine?

[rosco01]

Strangenuts,
I feel as if I'm swamping this thread..... and I don't even own a 'lux any more....
My opinion - yes.... batteries don't belong in the engine bay - they hate heat.
If you are going to mount one under the tray, there are a few things (musts) you have to ensure.
1/ Cabling has to be of sufficient size to carry loads.
2/ The battery is a pretty heavy weight to have located extenally - it MUST be secure and relatively weather proof.
You MUST ensure that either it or the box cannot possibly leave the vehicle - I'd hate to see that coming at me or dragging along ..... Road Authorities are pretty stringent on ensuring batteries are securely tied down - even in the engine bay - externally......... think you get the message....
3/ If you decide to fit a deep cycle as your Aux - it is designed to run those loads which you will subject it to..... any compromise between a battery intended for more than one purpose - will do neither of them as one designed specifically.... my opinion - not gospel....
4/ You can use your deep cycle Aux to jump start - emergency only .... the more times you do this, the shorter the life of the battery will be....
5/ If you fit a smart DC-DC charger - your auxiliary system will funciton entirely independent of your crank battery..... and unless you leave some vehicle component on - you shouldn't ever have to use the aux battery to jump start - but, in an emergency - you can.....
6/ A "clever" DC-DC charger will afford additional functions which you will come to appreciate further down the track - an investment in the future....... you can remove this if you decide to change vehicles...... pehaps one day to a combination far from your current future outlook...... one which detects your alternator charging and gives option to close load relays is my suggestion....... just one such relay control affords ability to switch in other relays....... the potential is almost unlimited.
This same unit will allow programming of different charging rates - both in boost voltage, amperage and float voltage... they have come a long, long way in a relatively short period of time........

So, in a further episode of swamping someone else's thread - apologies to the OP...... if you plan to run loads with the engine stopped, and want trouble free operation without compromising your 'lux's integrity.... go the remote aux deep cycle battery and a "good" DC-DC smart charger.... don't muck around with a "quick" installation - use heavy cabling with sound terminals, run all cables inside heavy duty conduit (not the cheap thin split black plastic) and secure it to your vehicle at appropriate spacings, use heavy duty resettable/switchable circuit breakers at BOTH ends.......invest in your re-assurance and future...... it might take some time, effort and expense to effect all this - but you will be rewarded and will never have to doubt the installation...... and, as you state - for now, you only intend to run light loads..... I am very confident tha these will change.... and you will have made provision..... I would hate to concede that any light duty installation would have to be re-visited and upgraded.... do it once, do it right - and forget it...

frats,
Rosco

[strangenuts]

Thanks Rosco for that great summary, things are a bit more sorted in my brain now. I proably will go under the tray as I had one there on my old lux, I just built it out of angle and bolted it onto the chassis, it was very secure. The fact that if you had to you could still jump off a deep cycle aux batt is interesting, that means that I would probably go that way, as it would hopefully never happen. The only thing I got a bit lost on was when you talked about relays. I don't really know what a relay is or does.

[Qwerty]

The "deep cycle" i bought is an all-rounder ... 105AH Deep Cycle but still capable of 800CCA (considering my starter is a bosch 760CCA it actually has more starting power than my starter!).

Both are maint free (not entirely sure how it works, they're still lead acid with some calcium involvement .. heat tolerant).

Could not get away with AGM or Gel in the tray.