Alternator

[rosco01]

thanks yet once again - Rod .... you are a long way ahead of me....
I won't tell you who did the wiring on my little truck - but it was a 3rd party commercial business...
When I went under to fit the leads for my tailgate - i found out what they had done - or more importantly what they had not done...... not my standard, I'm afraid - it's all good now - others may go even further than I, but I'm comfortable with it now...... I do not like to see exposed leads (and copper wire in one location) anywhere ...... all done, and no need for a "pack drill"......

yes, I follow what you suggest - and believe you have countered most of your needs - well done.

Anderson plugs and caravan fittings I am yet to get into - they will come, but it is probably prudent to wait for the van and it's associated wiring diagram before contemplating exactly my plan - I'm confident this forum (and others) will learn of my progress - probably more for re-assurance and advice than from an information submitted angle......

Thanks for the update on the b & S 2 into 12mm PVC - I may find some "out of gauge" PVC with a larger ID for the "2" ..
I believe if you read the RanOx articles (three pages in total) from the link - you may consider B & S 3 to be appropriate - it is certainly much heavier than their recommended "minimum"....

Yes - I have seen your "bread-cutting board" project and you have effected it very well....

I already have a number of auxiliaries "hanging" from the terminals of my battery - it looks messy (not my liking) and I would consider providing such a "bus-bar" junction box with just one heavy lead supplying power to auxiliaries from the battery - the remainder .. including those to this unit - would probably be better supplied from a bus - a fuse, such as you suggest - would serve well to protect the vehicle's systems from all of the extraneous added equipment......

thanks again, Rod - still working on my plan...... but a long way off from actually making up a "list"....

Have you any questions you may wish to ask RanOx whilst I have their attention....?

frats,
Rosco

[Batman]

I have been reading this thread with interest as I am about to set up a second battery to run an engel fridge in my ute. It has been an eye opening little thread and I am somewhat nervous about the whole set up. I was leaning towards a piranha dbs180 isolator for the second battery but now not so sure in fact more confused than ever...

so some quick questions for Olcoolone...

Can a product like the redarc BCDC1220 dc-dc charger be used to set up a dual battery without the need for an isolator?

Also it states on the info for the BCDC 1220 that it should not be mounted near the engine due to heat, is this hard and fast? What other options are there for mounting the unit? I would prefer to sit it up high near the second battery under the bonnet but heat would be an issue. Where do you mount them when fitting them up?

I see on the wiring diagram for the BCDC1220 that you can wire in an ignition wire source is this to effectively switch off the unit when the vehicle isn't running thereby saving or isolating the start battery from being drained?

Thanks in advance...

Steve.

[Alby]

All you guys doing this type of work have a look at some of the boating warehouses for supplies as this sort of stuff as is used extensively on larger boats (cruisers)

I just bought 2 B&S cable for about $11.00 metre at my local Withworths Marine www.whitworths.com.au and the same size in Jaycar is about $17.00m. The boating one is superior also because it is tinned wire so it is much resistant to salt and moisture attack.
Like wise they have a big selection of breakers and busbars electrical connectors etc. A lot of the boating stuff is designed with covers and caps etc due to the environment they are designed for.

Just another option for you to look at ???


Rosco FYI you can fit (squeeze) the2 B&S cable in the 10.5mmm split convorluted conduit.

[rosco01]

thanks Alby,
thank-you for your suggestion to visit marine retailer/wholesalers - yes, I will make the effort to contact them and compare...

Batman - it is probably my waffle which has caused you concern - I had only gone so far into the RedArc unit, but stopped further investigation when I began to make comparisons (for my application) between the RanOx one....
I cannot suggest which is more suitable for your requirements - and am hopeful that Olcoolone will clear up most of the "smoke and mirrors" I may (probably) have created....

I will continue this investigation on my Fridge slide post - I believe I have swamped this original thread beyond a reasonable addition .. if anyone is still interested in my "waffle" .... please go to Member Builds, rosco, fridge slide.....

frats,
Rosco

[ssdsibes]

I like the idea of a 12v - 12v charger doing the aux batteries, but i have a question also.

I currently have a Redarc smart solenoid with my second battery in my side box. I have fitted a switch so i can close the Redarc when required, ie for jumping off the aux battery or when winching you can manually close and use both batteries. I did think about wiring in a winch relay as per Redarc's website but as the winch was on the car when i bought it, didn't want to do this at the moment.

So how do you get around joining 2 batteries if only using a 12v - 12v charger? and especially if the aux battery is not under the bonnet

Just wondering

Sam

[rosco01]

Hi Sam,
just a short reply - I have no business posting my waffle on this thread....

My only answer to your question - is that, from reading through the manual on my unit - you can't... it is solely for charging an aux battery - with one other provision - for transferring the charge of the auxiliary into a van battery etc..... making use of the "run around" vehicle auxiliary to top up a camp site/van battery......

In all other applications (5 modes in total) are purely for charging an auxiliary without encroaching on the integrity of the vehicle electrical system.....

I don't have any information concerning what happens if you connect a deep cycle battery to a cranking battery for extra "grunt" either - but I would certainly want to know that neither will be damaged prior to doing this...... any takers?

frats,
Rosco

[ssdsibes]

Hi Sam,
just a short reply - I have no business posting my waffle on this thread....

My only answer to your question - is that, from reading through the manual on my unit - you can't... it is solely for charging an aux battery - with one other provision - for transferring the charge of the auxiliary into a van battery etc..... making use of the "run around" vehicle auxiliary to top up a camp site/van battery......

In all other applications (5 modes in total) are purely for charging an auxiliary without encroaching on the integrity of the vehicle electrical system.....

I don't have any information concerning what happens if you connect a deep cycle battery to a cranking battery for extra "grunt" either - but I would certainly want to know that neither will be damaged prior to doing this...... any takers?

frats,
Rosco

My Aux battery is an Exide Extreme which is a deep cycle with cranking ability, so I can crank from it if needed. I don't think I would crank if the aux battery was a pure deep cycle.

Anyway we will go back on topic now.

Sam

[Viper82]

I just had a tjm dbs dual battery system put in my hi lux. this unit charges the aux battery off the main battery not from the alternator. when the main battery gets to low on voltage it closes the circuit and when its ok it opens agian. I monitored my battery voltage while i was driving home and it stayed around 14v to 14.2v but this was with nothing running off the battery. is this system a dc to dc charger also like u mention about the ranox and redarc?

[rosco01]

Just quickly, I know a bit more about the RanOx now - since the last post.....
Yes, Viper82 - if that is what your unit does...
The RanOx can be programmed to perform in 5 different modes.... most basic is as you mention above....
The other modes provide connections to relays which also serve to open/close loads on the aux battery.....
all user programmable and current/voltage adjustable...
frats,
Rosco

[bansheebuzz]

the tjm system is just like the redarc isolator, its just a solenoid with auto voltage sensing, it charges both batteries in parallel when the voltage increases past the products voltage setting.


ssdsibes, to link in the batteries with a dc-dc charge unit you will require to fit an extra solenoid

[rosco01]

Bansheebuzz,
does this mean that these units "assume" both batteries need the same amount of charge.....?

I did note one post suggesting that the crank battery voltage remained well over 14vsomething whilst the long term charge of the deep cycle one was getting its boost......

I'm certainly not qualified to state anything here - please don't accept this as questioning those who manufacture this equipment..... but I am of the opinion that the crank battery should only be charged to about 70% of capacity... beyond that energy is converted to heat and the fluid becomes overheated..... anyone know anything about this.....?

frats,
Rosco

[bansheebuzz]

both batteries will receive the same voltage, but current flow may vary(with a solenoid type setup). Batteries need to be charged to 100%, the charging system should control the voltage/current to prevent overcharging a battery

[rosco01]

I'm probably well out of bounds here - and possibly worrying people without due reason......
The little bits of research that I have done so far - reveal that the alternator regulator will supply voltage/current proportional to the voltage it "sees" in the vehicle battery (crank battery).

If a solenoid system (and I do not understand how they function - or if it can differentiate between the crank battery and an aux battery by providing separate charging paths) simply connects both batteries as a "bank"..... my understanding is that the crank battery will charge much quicker than the deep cycle "aux" battery..... which in some cases depending on state of aux battery capacity and discharge may amount to 5 or 6 hours........

Does this then mean - the crank battery remains under "charge" whilst the deep cycle battery reaches full charge..... I am hoping this is not the case.....

From what i can ascertain - the crank battery (after a cold start) usually falls to "float" voltage after approximately 10 minutes in normal operation........

frats,
Rosco

frats,
Rosco

[rosco01]

Ok folk, a little more of the puzzle has just been put into place...

For those who I have probably created much concern about over-charging tug batteries...... it is apparently unfounded.... my humble apologies...

I have had a long discussion this afternoon - and feel I must enlighten those who I have concerned.....

Modern DC- DC charging units - other than the most basic of a simple solenoid arrangement to connect two batteries in parallel - should have inbuilt "smart" technology - and should avoid overcharging of the tug battery.

I am further led to believe that these "smart" units - do not affect credibility of the vehicle crank battery charging system....

Hopefully this will relieve what I have most likely created... and apologise profusely for any concern....

I am still hopeful that some of the more technically minded and senior members of this forum will reply to this and inform us as to how other brands (other than the one I have been in research with) effect charging of an auxiliary battery whilst the unit "draws" its current from the tug battery/charging system.....

I understand quite a bit more about the RanOx unit - and have become even more impressed with its functions/features.....

once again, folk - my humble apologies for any concerns....

I will duplicate this post on my "fridge/slide/power" thread....

frats,
Rosco

[Batman]

The Hilux will float around the 12.85 to 13.2 volts and charge at 13.5 to 13.8 volts sometimes touching 14 volts for a very short period, this is not enough to maintain and charge a battery to 100% SOC, I believe the Hilux will only charge the start battery to about 65% SOC the go into a low float (with in 10 minutes of the vehicle running).

Try it your self with a multimeter and see what readings you get, a battery needs 14 to15 volts to charge and a float voltage of 13.6 to 14 volts to bring a battery to 100% SOC ((state of charge) these values can vary due to brand and type of battery used but not capacity)).

Guys,

I just fitted a Piranha DBE180S battery management system to my Hilux with a 105Ah AGM battery, I was tossing up between the Ranox and Redarc DC-DC chargers but after talking at length with heaps of different people went with the Piranha system.

Anyway it is set up with a digital voltmeter (accurate to 2%) that shows the voltage of each battery as well as the voltage being put out by the alternator. I have found the following...

At idle it fluctuates between 13.6V - 13.9V, whilst driving it charges at about 14.2 - 14.3 volts for about 30 min then slowly comes down to 14 volts and stays there for at least another 20 minutes, I haven't driven for longer than that. I reckon this shows that I shouldn't have too many problems charging to close to 100% SOC.

After this 50 minute drive the auxillary battery went from 12.9V to 13.2V

Olcoolone how can my readings vary from yours am I reading the alternator output properly?

Cheers,

Steve

[Alby]

Just thinking outside the square. If the factory alternator and computer setup limits your battery charging ability. Is it possible to fit an additional alternator that is wired to your second battery via a regulator to stop it overcharging as a seperate individual charging system that is pumping out 70 odd amps whenever the motor is running and you leave the factory setup as standard just looking after the cranking battery.
As long as the second alternator could fit it would fit it is a very simple setup.
So how did I go? Genius or dickhead, I will accept that it is possible to be both.

[Twisty]

:idea:
Just thinking outside the square. If the factory alternator and computer setup limits your battery charging ability. Is it possible to fit an additional alternator that is wired to your second battery via a regulator to stop it overcharging as a seperate individual charging system that is pumping out 70 odd amps whenever the motor is running and you leave the factory setup as standard just looking after the cranking battery.
As long as the second alternator could fit it would fit it is a very simple setup.
So how did I go? Genius or dickhead, I will accept that it is possible to be both.

Two mates have this setup (dual alternators) in their patrols, works really well.

[rodw]

It must be possible to squeeze an extra alternator in because Bull has fitted an Endless Air system

[Alby]

It must be possible to squeeze an extra alternator in because Bull has fitted an Endless Air system

That was what I was thinking, wouldn't this be a lot cheaper and easier than using a fancy battery management system and a DC-DC charger?

[bansheebuzz]

no it will not be cheaper, you will need alternator, custom made brackets, possible brive belt pulleys, alternator to be wired. Much simpler and easier to use dc-dc charge system