Are batteries a scam :)

Are batteries a scam :)

Postby sa_lux on Sat, 27 Mar 2021 8:24 +0000

I will start with a 'warning' we sell battery packs, but we are only doing this because we felt ripped off by the stores that sell AGM, Lead Acid etc. and not able to claim the warranty due to using them under the bonnet as our 2nd bats.

We are currently selling lithium ion battery packs exclusively, 1865 & 2170 ATM

These are 12v and 24v used to power compressors, fridges, LED lights and anything else we can find were you take the bats. to the appliance, not cable to.

Here is an Elec. Eng. who has tested Lead Acid batteries and found them to be below the specs, no surprise, but LI under spec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy3hga_P5YY Jump to 7 min for start of results

We are also testing LTO bats ( not mentioned in this vid, ) which have a cycle of 25K, so for some of use the bats will outlast our lifetime of 4x4 trips.

But, solid states are due in 2024 and will outlast EVs and Tesla is designing/hoping will transfer between old and new EVs.

So the take away is stop buying batteries you can hardly carry.
Looking to buy

- 54" Led Light Bar to Roof Rack mounting kit
- Roof Top Tent
- Tub Transformer (TT) -> http://ozutz.com.au
- e Lockers
- 12v / 240v Fridge -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221680219455

Roll on rolux
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Re: Are batteries a scam :)

Postby Rob_Wood on Sun, 28 Mar 2021 7:34 +0000

sa_lux wrote:So the take away is stop buying batteries you can hardly carry.


That would be nice, can you however provide comparative affordability?
ie. 200A/Hrs lead acid is roughly comparable to 100A/Hrs Li
200A/Hrs lead acid is roughly 3 to 4 hundred dollars, whereas 100A/Hrs Li is well over $500 for even just the cheapo' Chinese.
Only reason I know this is because I've just been down this path and as a Pensioner paying off a mortgage, I simply can't afford the Li that my heart desires.
I'd actually like to get my hands on Zinc Bromide, unfortunately Gelion are still a ways off production of a unit that'll suit our needs.
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Re: Are batteries a scam :)

Postby martynvella on Mon, 29 Mar 2021 4:56 +0000

The 25000 cycles is just theoretical. To test them to that extent in real conditions as they would be used would take nearly 70 years at one cycle a day.
Then add to that fatigue, the metal will stress and break.

How can anybody state the batteries will last 68 years.

It is just bullshit to make gullable people part with their dollars.

Remember all the outrageous claims about AGM batteries 30 years ago, and have they lived up to them? And they have had 3 decades of technological developmemt since and they still cant.

So how can anyone take the claims of people on the internet with no credability in the industry at all.

Your selling batteries and pushing the bullshit sprookers to help sell your product.

Where are the ones you sell manufactured, and I mean the actual cells not just where the cheep chinese components were assembled?
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Re: Are batteries a scam :)

Postby Gipsy on Mon, 29 Mar 2021 5:52 +0000

Yes they can be a scam to answer the original question. How can a product have a projected life of 70 years if it was only invented a couple of years ago? No amount of testing can guarantee a life which is theoretically impossible. Spin doctors will tell you anything to get a hold of your cash. The company promoting such crap probably won't be in existence in 70 years if you ever want to challenge their guarantee in 20 years let alone 70!
It all sounds kind of like a ponsey scheme which makes profit on some evasive promise of eternal life.

By the way, some years ago I knew a submarine Captain and I asked him what batteries are used in subs. He told me that despite all those 'newfangled' batteries, the pride of our fleet still used lead-acid batteries as power for the submarine. That was just a few years ago and unless someone can update me, they are still used in Collins class submarines.
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
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Re: Are batteries a scam :)

Postby sa_lux on Tue, 30 Mar 2021 9:38 +0000

Well that is really interesting, seems I have touched on a nerve.

"Are batteries a scam ?" was my question and concern :)

Yes I sell battery packs, but not online, not to retailers, not to wholesalers, in 90%+ of cases to friends and relatives in our district to help us test their reliability. We do not want them to be airred down and not able to pump up their tyres due to bat. failures.

Initially we were really concerned that someone might get hurt by these LIs and are taking our time to makes certain that that never happens. We now know that these scare tactics are spread by big lead acid and AGM bat. manufs.

I'm absolutely not "pushing the bullshit" !!!

I'm not running some ponsey scheme !!!

But that's exactly how I felt after buying AGM as a 2nd bat and then the warranty was voided because I did what I said and installed under the bonnet.

When I mentioned that in posts on here and other forums, no one said that I was ripped off, I wonder why that was. I'm guessing it is what I should have expected.

So worrying about a battery lasting 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 or 70 years is much better than having 1s that only last 18 months.

Again, when you go to pick up a lead acid or AGM and you are struggling to carry them, something is wrong, put it down and walk away.

Now I going to do a Box Head.
Looking to buy

- 54" Led Light Bar to Roof Rack mounting kit
- Roof Top Tent
- Tub Transformer (TT) -> http://ozutz.com.au
- e Lockers
- 12v / 240v Fridge -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221680219455

Roll on rolux
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Re: Are batteries a scam :)

Postby Gipsy on Wed, 31 Mar 2021 5:23 +0000

Ouch! Talk about touching a nerve. This thread is titled "Are batteries a scam". So the question was asked and responded to. The general thrust of the answers indicates, as I put it 'yes they can be'. As you wrote "someone might get hurt" and yes they may get hurt, both physically and financially but why are we talking of using us as guinea pigs if the manufacturer is so well trusted in their claims. All manufacturers try to spin their product, look up "a mere puff" in your legal history.
I wasn't singling you out as 'pushing bullshit' or running a ponsey scheme, but hey, if the cap fits...
Mate, I don't think you could do a boxhead, and I'm not sure you understand what happened to boxhead!
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
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Re: Are batteries a scam :)

Postby Gipsy on Wed, 31 Mar 2021 5:25 +0000

People also ask
What is a mere puff?
A mere puff is a statement often associated with advertising. Another way of explaining this is “salesman's hype” or hyperbole. These are statements that plainly exaggerate and are not intended to be taken seriously. The important point about them is that they have no contractual effect and no legal consequences.
http://llbnotes.blogspot.com › law-o...
Law (LLB) Lecture Notes: Law of Contract - Terms in a Contract (Part 1)

Carlill v Carbolic Smoke Ball Company [1892] EWCA Civ 1 is an English contract law decision by the Court of Appeal, which held an advertisement containing certain terms to get a reward constituted a binding unilateral offer that could be accepted by anyone who performed its terms.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki
Carlill v Carbolic Smoke Ball Co - Wikipedia

Fraud is a misrepresentation of a material fact used to induce someone to do something. ... Puffing involves giving an opinion or exaggerating the quality of something that no reasonable person would believe is meant to be a statement of fact.
Cheers Gipsy :D although I'm sure somebody will challenge that :lol: even Einstein wasn't certain of his theories.
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Re: Are batteries a scam :)

Postby hiluxxury on Wed, 31 Mar 2021 10:29 +0000

I'm locking this topic until everyone cools down.
I might be wrong.

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