Replacement cranking battery

Replacement cranking battery

Postby sa_lux on Thu, 03 Jan 2019 1:14 +0000

G'Day Guys

I have never had any issues with my D4D '12 cranking batt. until I left the ignition turned on for 8+ hours & the batt. ran almost flat. I'm very happy that the orig. has lasted 7 years :)

I have tried to resurrect batt. with a batt. charger, but it is starting to sound like a machine gun regularly & I have to use a 18650 batt. pack via cig. lighter to get the ute going.

I have found this recommendation -> https://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=24974#p371082 for a "D27F yellow top" & I have a 2nd battery & redarc 2nd batt. balancing / isolator etc. so I dont want to have to deal with any cable issues after install all of this 'stuff'.

This discussion is almost 4 years old, so wanting to know

- Anyone bought a D27F yellow top recently ?
- If you did how much did you pay ?

- Anyone got a better suggestion than a yellow top ?

Thanks
Looking to buy

- 54" Led Light Bar to Roof Rack mounting kit
- Roof Top Tent
- Tub Transformer (TT) -> http://ozutz.com.au
- e Lockers
- 12v / 240v Fridge -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221680219455

Roll on rolux
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby HK1837 on Thu, 03 Jan 2019 1:32 +0000

Might be a silly question, but why would you want an AGM as a starting battery? They cost heaps, are heavy, don’t like heat and can’t be charged properly by an alternator. You got 7 years out of a cheapskate Thai Toyota battery! I’d just buy a good replacement lead-acid like a Supercharge Gold for half the price and get another 5-6+ years out of it. Save the $ for a fancy aux battery.
Last edited by HK1837 on Fri, 04 Jan 2019 12:27 +0000, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby dave g on Thu, 03 Jan 2019 3:20 +0000

Yellow top is a deep cycle & starting battery and on hassle with heat and can be run down and recover sorry can't remember how much I paid got it from battery world
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby martynvella on Fri, 04 Jan 2019 8:02 +0000

I put an agm in the arb accessory holder and re routed the starter cables to it. A 600 cold cranking agm is smaller and lighter than the original battery and less than the rated capacity of the arb holder and it cranks better than the original ever did. This leaves the original battery holder free for a large accessory battery.

Your alternator will charge an agm starting duty battery ok, the earlier fixed voltage systems tended to over charge them a bit so a bit of confusion exists about it, forums a good at people repeating stuff they miss understood then it just pyramids from there.

Also starting duty agm batteries are designed to be under bonnets so good brands will cope. Just check with the supplier and try to deal direct with the company that supplies the batteries not a retail chain that only know the profit margin and nothing else about batteries just how to sell them.

Try not to listen to those that dont know there are 3 very different types of agm battery.

But as HK said it is an expensive crank battery if you have no other reason such as corrogations or weight, sealed calciums do pretty well for the price.
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby glifnard on Fri, 04 Jan 2019 11:41 +0000

I'm not sure on this but would love some feedback - I was of the same opinion, thinking of getting an optima D34 (cranking + AGM) to replace my nearly 3 year old stock battery (Hilux N80 2016). I run dashcams when not in the vehicle, not that they have that much draw but thought being agm/cranking mix would be perfect for that.

The dealer dude (Battery Central - QLD) said that of late, the Optima brand had gone downhill in a big way. I said that all the reviews I'm reading suggest otherwise. He said from consumers maybe, but not if you ask any dealers who have been taking back duds for some time now.

He recommended the Amaron battery, from India I think so I went with that, purely has I didn't have to do make any changes with leads / lugs like I would have to do with the optima because of the terminal placement.

Anyone else hearing bad things about the optimas?
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby martynvella on Fri, 04 Jan 2019 12:21 +0000

You terminology is a bit confusing, the term AGM doesnt refer to a deep cycle as i think you mean, AGM can be deep cycle, cranking or hybrid which is half way between.

No i havent heard that about optima. Could be a case of people using them in the wrong aplication for the type. Could be a sales pitch, or it might be that i just havent heard about it.

The trucks i work with have 8 of the yellow top optimas in series parallel and havent had to replace any in the 3 months i have been there.
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby sa_lux on Fri, 04 Jan 2019 12:24 +0000

G'Day Marty

How are you going mate ?

I was hoping you would reply.

Before I read your reply I was thinking this will be gr8, but I was also worried that I might find something like this

"re routed the starter cables to it"

:o

Do I replace the current cranking cables ( is this the easiest ) to reach the re-located cranker ?

or

Make new cables ( which I can do ) from jumper cables ?


martynvella wrote:I put an agm in the arb accessory holder and re routed the starter cables to it. A 600 cold cranking agm is smaller and than the original battery and less than the rated capacity of the arb holder and it cranks better than the original ever did. This leaves the original battery holder free for a large accessory battery.


This idea is gold :)

Your a legend :idea:

I have been building "electro mech." systems for 40 years usually cutting code in Assember, C etc. & it is often a few days work to code a great idea, but it takes years for a user to tell you the most amazing change that will make the system so much better. Software Engineers dont understand the system like the users do.

The only issue is I have had 2 x agms in the 2nd batt. & they only lasted 18 months, I live in rural SA & have a couple of bikes CBR600 & WR450, plus work from home so the rolux is only driven on the weekend & I have always wondered if sitting for days or weeks at a time is causing issues for the AGMs

When I search for "12 volt 600 cca agm battery" I find bike batts. or batts. that have the wrong dimensions !!!

Do you have a URL for a 600 CCA AGM ?

[SNIP]

martynvella wrote:forums a good at people repeating stuff they miss understood then it just pyramids from there


I hear you mate, I have comes across a few 'experts' in IT over the past few decades, they all sound gr8 until you ask them to build / code up a prototype. Then the excuses start.

martynvella wrote:Also starting duty agm batteries are designed to be under bonnets so good brands will cope. Just check with the supplier and try to deal direct with the company that supplies the batteries not a retail chain that only know the profit margin and nothing else about batteries just how to sell them.


Living in the country I dont have much choice, it is a 50+ Ks round trip to a supercheap !!!

Any url for a "deal direct with the company that supplies the batteries" ?

martynvella wrote:Try not to listen to those that dont know there are 3 very different types of agm battery.


I didn't know this, I will do some research

martynvella wrote:But as HK said it is an expensive crank battery if you have no other reason such as corrogations or weight,


I hear you

martynvella wrote:sealed calciums do pretty well for the price.


Again - I will do some research, never thought about these

Thxs for the reply.
Looking to buy

- 54" Led Light Bar to Roof Rack mounting kit
- Roof Top Tent
- Tub Transformer (TT) -> http://ozutz.com.au
- e Lockers
- 12v / 240v Fridge -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221680219455

Roll on rolux
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby sa_lux on Fri, 04 Jan 2019 12:33 +0000

G'Day HK

HK1837 wrote:Might be a silly question, but why would you want an AGM as a starting battery? They cost heaps, are heavy, don’t like heat and can’t be charged properly by an alternator.


Well spotted mate :)

I never realised it was a AGM, I just trusted the reply from the OP because the thread of that post had already said AGM was no good.

Just shows you cant trust everyone or everything you read on the NET :oops:


HK1837 wrote:You got 7 years out of a cheapskate Thai Toyota battery! I’d just buy a good replacement lead-acid like a Supercharge Gold for half the price and get another 5-6+ years out of it. Save the $ for a fancy six battery.


This is why I'm asking because this OP was many years ago & batt. tech. is changing faster than IT is these days.

18650s were not mainstream 5+ years ago, now I have them in my 2 x bikes & couldn't be happier, I will never buy a motorbike batt. again & I wont have to be concerned about 'disposing' of them as well - happy days !!!

I have checked and a Supercharge gold at 800 CCA with the correct dimensions is 200+ so AGMs are no longer much more expensive that lead acid are
Looking to buy

- 54" Led Light Bar to Roof Rack mounting kit
- Roof Top Tent
- Tub Transformer (TT) -> http://ozutz.com.au
- e Lockers
- 12v / 240v Fridge -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221680219455

Roll on rolux
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby glifnard on Fri, 04 Jan 2019 1:11 +0000

martynvella wrote:You terminology is a bit confusing, the term AGM doesnt refer to a deep cycle as i think you mean, AGM can be deep cycle, cranking or hybrid which is half way between.


Ah apologies my bad - I'm meaning more "AGM" type qualities like being able to deep cycle etc combined with high cranking power - probably what you refer to as a hybrid ...

cheers!
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby martynvella on Fri, 04 Jan 2019 3:11 +0000

Sa, shoot me a pm with your mobile number and ill send you a couple of pics. If you get a battery the right terminal configuration the original starter cables work out perfect only have to extend the lead between the pos terminal and fusebox and the body earth to neg terminal.

Cant say how long it will last as its only been in there 6 months and hasnt done much work in really hot weather. I get my batteries at dealer prices and it was still 340 bucks but has seen some pretty rough tracks and held up so far.
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby sa_lux on Wed, 23 Jan 2019 11:08 +0000

G'Day MV

Did you read my PM ?

TIA

SA
Looking to buy

- 54" Led Light Bar to Roof Rack mounting kit
- Roof Top Tent
- Tub Transformer (TT) -> http://ozutz.com.au
- e Lockers
- 12v / 240v Fridge -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221680219455

Roll on rolux
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby martynvella on Wed, 23 Jan 2019 4:15 +0000

Nah mate been checking but havent had any pm messages since i sent those pics to your mobile.
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby xychix on Tue, 09 Feb 2021 1:56 +0000

hate it for kicking an old topic back alive.

My 2015 Vigo seems to charge my battery with ~14.4V I'd like to kick this up to 14.8V as that is wat the AGM cracking battery actually likes to have.

Does anyone know of this is (easily achieved?)
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby sa_lux on Tue, 09 Feb 2021 6:50 +0000

G'Day xychix

I have been thru. the hoops with this 2nd battery since the OP :)

Basically do not buy a AGM & put under bonnet, cannot handle the heat in Oz from my experience.

I have built 1865 ( far too expensive ) and now 2170 packs both 12v & 24v since then and made up brackets to attach to my fridge, 24v stove, over head lighting, detectors, pumps etc.

But the 2nd bat. bay under the bonnet is still empty most of the time in the rolux.

Lithum Ion (LI) will handle up to 80C so have experimented a lot with them as 2nd bat under bonnet, even made cranking LI packs for rolux.

I would take bat. out of car and experiement on then bench first, maybe a guru like MV can help you, why dont you PM him.

SA
Looking to buy

- 54" Led Light Bar to Roof Rack mounting kit
- Roof Top Tent
- Tub Transformer (TT) -> http://ozutz.com.au
- e Lockers
- 12v / 240v Fridge -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221680219455

Roll on rolux
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby martynvella on Tue, 09 Feb 2021 7:57 +0000

XY, if you just want to up the voltage try a diode in place of the alt fuse under the bonnet, if a silicone diode gives you a bit more than what you want a germanium diode will halve the gain.
Just be careful if you have a high output alternator with the original 100 amp fuse as a diode will encourage the alt to reach higher current peaks after start up as well.
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby xychix on Thu, 11 Feb 2021 1:24 +0000

sa_lux wrote:G'Day xychix

I have been thru. the hoops with this 2nd battery since the OP :)

Basically do not buy a AGM & put under bonnet, cannot handle the heat in Oz from my experience.

I have built 1865 ( far too expensive ) and now 2170 packs both 12v & 24v since then and made up brackets to attach to my fridge, 24v stove, over head lighting, detectors, pumps etc.

But the 2nd bat. bay under the bonnet is still empty most of the time in the rolux.

Lithum Ion (LI) will handle up to 80C so have experimented a lot with them as 2nd bat under bonnet, even made cranking LI packs for rolux.

I would take bat. out of car and experiement on then bench first, maybe a guru like MV can help you, why dont you PM him.

SA


tnx for your elaborate response.

I've obtained a Varta AGM Cranking battery that is made to be underbonnet, I'm in Europe and 25+C is exceptional here.
It should cope better with loads like my Webasto heater and winch.

The main difference being it wants 14.8volt in bulk charge instead of 14.4
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby ng_newbie on Sat, 19 Nov 2022 6:26 +0000

Hello Marty

Just tripped over this post, I know its 4 years ago.

martynvella wrote:600 cold cranking agm


Would you mind telling me what brand and model so I can buy one myself ?

martynvella wrote:Try not to listen to those that dont know there are 3 very different types of agm battery


Will I need to give them these details when I try and buy one ?
In the market for

- Lokkas & someone to help me install it :)
- 24v Rattle gun - https://dewalt.com.au/products/dcf899hn ... -bare-unit
- 24v Freezer
- 24v Air Conditioner
- 24v Battery Pack - ozBATs.com
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby Skrewdriver on Mon, 21 Nov 2022 4:45 +0000

I have only ever used Century Batteries in all of my cars and my wife's cars.

Try these:

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/res ... ions/21969

Me personally, I go for the N70ZZLX MF

More CCA, and longer warranty.
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby ng_newbie on Mon, 21 Nov 2022 4:05 +0000

I wanted a 600CCA and AGM, aren't these lead acid ?
In the market for

- Lokkas & someone to help me install it :)
- 24v Rattle gun - https://dewalt.com.au/products/dcf899hn ... -bare-unit
- 24v Freezer
- 24v Air Conditioner
- 24v Battery Pack - ozBATs.com
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Re: Replacement cranking battery

Postby ng_newbie on Wed, 30 Nov 2022 7:22 +0000

For anyone that trips over this post PM me if you want the details, as the correct AGM is approx. 30% more 'powerful' you can use a 600 not 800 as per the suggestion above.

Now I have a slow cooker were the old lead acid was wasting space, great for heating up my pies and rolls etc. etc. etc.
In the market for

- Lokkas & someone to help me install it :)
- 24v Rattle gun - https://dewalt.com.au/products/dcf899hn ... -bare-unit
- 24v Freezer
- 24v Air Conditioner
- 24v Battery Pack - ozBATs.com
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