Dual Batteries for dummies

[Gsxr1000testpilot]

Thanks for all the info boys!! So anyone looking for a cheap SBI12, looks like ill have a spare one now.. haha.

You definitely need to do a bit more investigating before giving up on the sbi12 mate, as you said it was cutting in and out very quickly which does seem a bit odd, but I do stand by my other comment, if you want the best performance from your second battery, in my opinion the redarc BCDC or the ctek 250s are the best options. Determining if you need the best performance from your second battery really depends what you want to run off your second battery and for how long. I use a redarc sbi12 in my older hilux and it works fantastic, because I get 14.5v when everything is cold and a minimum of 13.9v with everything up to temp and everything turned on. I'm told that these voltages will be noticeably less in the new hilux's.

[Qwerty]

Even with a dc dc they tolerates lower voltage from alternator that is powered down its still going to be an issue because the current output is still reduced and you'll probably start raping the starter battery.

Rangers have the same problem as did my ve ss ute , "smart computer controlled" charging aimed at reducing emissions and fuel , net result is haphazard unpredictable and less than desireable alternator use.

Simply put the computer is putting the generator to sleep half the time (alternator)

The rangers apparently have a method or wiring the starter that puts it back into dumb mode and gives proper solid charging. Ie disables all the smartness of charging.

Maybe the 2012+ luxes can do this ?

[timothyg]

I've got the sbi12 but havent find time to install it...hope it doesnt cause any trouble

[outbackjoe]

Even with smart systems like in the Ranger, if aux loads are connected correctly the load will be detected and the alternator will never enter sleep mode. It will behave like a traditional alternator.

[Qwerty]

Even with smart systems like in the Ranger, if aux loads are connected correctly the load will be detected and the alternator will never enter sleep mode. It will behave like a traditional alternator.

Can the hilux do this ?

Mines 07 so don't have this issue (just have other issues instead ha ha )

[outbackjoe]

I don't think new hilux has the same system as ranger. I think new hilux starts up with a boost mode, 14.5V or something, then backs off to 13.5V or so, regardless of load. I got 2007 too so not sure. Someone else may be able to confirm.

I think next hilux will have same as ranger, everyone's doing it.

[Qwerty]

hmm in reading the past few pages it seems after 2012 model, they HAVE changed something.

Yours is like mine , it will start on 14.5v ... and then settle down to mid 13's ... and stay there forever (or until i have too much load but thats an entirely different issue).

The chaps on here seem to be suggesting that post 2012 models are doing so called "smart" charging (aka dumb pain in the ass charging designed at reducing alternator output to reduce emissions targets and fuel usage) and are dipping right down into the 12's (indicating its not charging. ... and thats where running into trouble on two fronts ... 1) the dc-dc chargers are bombing out to standby mode because they detect the voltage drop , but more to the point 2) reduced alternator output is reduced alternator output ... less charging to batteries no matter which way it's spun.

Unless im mis-interpreting things? Perhaps the alternator is reducing the volts output but maintaining current so still charging (if thats the case need a DC-DC that will tolerate the lower charging voltage / high current? ... albeit it removes a protection in that usually keeping an eye on the volt meter gives a clear indication whether things are charging or not.)

[Qwerty]

The voltage shouldn't be dropping below 12.7V.

Exactly. Especially in a D4D with not much load.

My V6 alternator does drop below 13v when idling in gear (500rpm), and it does cause problems. But thats not a compuiter issue... thats simply that the alternator is not spinning much at all at idle.

D4D altys shoudl not suffer same issue? sounds like sean needs to get a volt meter happening and just see what his alternator is doing, should definately not drop below around 13.3v when over 900rpm. If it IS then he's either got a dodgy alternator, or its some sort of smart charging system

Or, its a 45c day and the temp sensing has gone spastic.

Even the 2007 luxes are temp sensing to a point (hence they boost out to 14.5 when cold) ... but even then, i drive around mid 40's and my alty keeps on at 13+ v (keeping the redarc happy).

[outbackjoe]

My alternator is regulated to 13.8V at all times. That is a traditional alternator which I thought you would have also.

My understanding of the current facelift hilux is it has boost to 14.5V on startup then regulated to 13.5V but I have no first hand experience, someone needs to measure and confirm.

The Ranger and other new cars charge less whilst idling and accelerating and charge more whilst decelerating. It still has to cater for high loads, for example with air-con and headlights and stereo cranking. They have to handle this otherwise the starter battery would go flat. If they can handle that then they can handle charging an aux battery as long as the load is recognized. When a high load is detected it cranks up the voltage.

[Qwerty]

yeah ok i see what you mean. Hmm well i think SeanNico is reporting his voltages seem to be kicking down below 12.7 very frequently ... hence he can hear the aux kicing in and out ... he's either got some whacko issue going on, or the 2012+ is doing something more funky than previous years.

That behaviour you mention of the current facelift is the exact same behaviour mine shows (2007 v6) ... it starts in the 14's ... finishes in the 13's, never drops below 13v (unless my idling issue comes to roost but thats different).

[outbackjoe]

By starts in 14s do you mean initial transient on startup or is it held at a fixed elevated voltage for 30 mins or so?

[Qwerty]

ps the ranger does have rampant issues of their starters going flat happened to myself and mate 3 weeks ago in the forest ... but that was largely due to the issue that if you leave the keys in the car and unlocked ... the computers all stay lit / active and drain.

Looking on the forums though there's additional issues where the rangers just arent charging "enough" and especialyl if you suck power from the starter while its off, the computer doesnt know and doesnt charge becaues it "thinks" it knows where charge level is at.

my VE SS ute did the same thing ... as the holden foreman put it to me, "a very elaborate and ultimately crap charging system".

Apparently the rnagers though there's a way to wire off a particular shunt or something that puts the computer back into "old school" mode and it just charges all the time, ie whenever it sees load or a battery sucking amps, it will give it ... instead of over-riding and making all these wonderful computer contorlled decisions on "when" to give output. (such as you say, on decceleration etc).

[Qwerty]

By starts in 14s do you mean initial transient on startup or is it held at a fixed elevated voltage for 30 mins or so?

When i start her cold of a morning, she's up in the 14's ... for about 15 - 30 minutes depending on the ambient temps. Once engine heats up, she drops down to a variation between 13.3 and 13.8v ... randomly.

If i start her and she's already hot ... then straight to the 13's

But never drops below 13 ... except for my idle issue (different issue).

My dc-dc has no issue ... unless i idle around for excessive amount of time then it comes in and out.

But seannico seemed to have that issue even during normal driving?

[Qwerty]

I just recently intalled a dual battery system in my 2013 sr d4d. i used a redarc SBI12 and a 95 A/H Aldeco battery.

My only problem is when i start my lux and drive for the first 15 mins i can hear the solenoid clicking on and off intermitantly. as in it may click on and off 4 times in a 20 second period. I notice it mainly when i accelorate it clicks on then when the revs drop when i go to change gears it clicks off then strait back on when the accelorator is applied again. Has anyone else experianced this? Could this spike my computer? I checked for a loose earth to the solenoid but all is good.

I heard that the alernator in the hiluxes is only capable of charging the battery to 70 odd %. Is this still true in the newer models? ie my 2013?

appolgies if all this has been answered i skimmed through the last 10 pages of this forumn but didnt see anything?

Mate you should have used a BCDC 1225lv or a ctek 250s as the alternator is computer controlled, and will cut it self right back. The output voltage of your alternator is going below the minimum cutout voltage of your sbi12.

outback joe this is what made me think the post 2012 models have got "smart charging" ... as opposed to yours and mine which just sit in the 13's all the time no matter what.

Either that or his SBI12 is way way too sensitive?

Needs to monitor with a voltage monitor and actually map what's going on.

So many symptoms can be different causes.

[outbackjoe]

By starts in 14s do you mean initial transient on startup or is it held at a fixed elevated voltage for 30 mins or so?

When i start her cold of a morning, she's up in the 14's ... for about 15 - 30 minutes depending on the ambient temps. Once engine heats up, she drops down to a variation between 13.3 and 13.8v ... randomly.

If i start her and she's already hot ... then straight to the 13's

But never drops below 13 ... except for my idle issue (different issue).

My dc-dc has no issue ... unless i idle around for excessive amount of time then it comes in and out.

But seannico seemed to have that issue even during normal driving?

ah yeah what you describe might be temperature compensation rather than boost voltage that the new ones have.

[outbackjoe]

seannicos problem doesn't sound like smart charging symptom to me. Sounds like when the aux battery is sinking reasonable current the voltage at the solenoid is being pulled down. I'd be first looking at high resistance feed to solenoid (cables too small, bad termination), faulty regulator or faulty voltage sensing on the solenoid. Could even be faulty aux battery if it's got an internal fault and drawing ridiculous current.

With the ranger's setup, if you use the starter battery with the engine off, when you start the engine the starter battery will sink lots of current which will present as a large load and cause the alternator to ramp up it's voltage. Sounds like there might be some teething problems with the design but ultimately it should work when done properly.

[Qwerty]

cool cool. yeah something doesnt sound right with seannico's!

so do you reckon the 2013 luxes are using a different chargin system to say a 2009, or same same?

I loathed my VE's charging system. So did the foreman of the dealership tasked with dealing with thousands of flat batteries all the time hahaha.

I've probably confused things with my examples given i have a v6, which is a different alternator , engine and computer altogether.

And yep mine is definately temp sensing... but never drops below 13.3 usually.

[outbackjoe]

yeah i dunno about 2013 hilux, could be more like the ranger, i thought it was just voltage boost then drop back.

[Richolux150]

Mmmmm dual batteries for dummies...sounds like I've come to the right place....

I am looking to redo my dual battery system on my 2012 d4d as the Redarc smart solenoid is just not cutting it.
I have purchased the C-tek d205s and was thinking of installing it in my canopy and also relocating the second battery there as well to take a bit of load off the front guard, and installing a removable solar panel......has anyone done this setup?
Is this too far away from the start battery?
Is voltage drop going to be a problem?
Any advice would be appreciated...
Cheers Richo

[Talktheroo]

I think you bought the right unit with the Ctek 250 dual. Just buy one of these units.
Link : http://www.jtsonline.com.au/12-volt-pro ... meter.html
They were $165.00, but they have gone up a bit.
Just make up a battery tray or buy one from Derek, ABR Sidewinder.
Link : http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page158a.html
The bottom section allows you to mount the Ctek unit there. Just use 8mm2 cable to the main battery and the solar panel wires just go straight on the Ctek unit, easy.
The battery box unit, makes the second battery portable, just use the Anderson plug connection. The fridge will run directly off the battery box.
Nice and simple solution for the modern 4wd.
The Roo.