Dual Batteries for dummies

[aandy]

Mine will not drop out at idle even for an extended time with the high beams on, I have a dual battery monitor in the cab so can see whats going on, perhaps they modified the charging system on later hilux's or its just a newer alternator?

[Qwerty]

are you referring to the idling issue? (unrelated to the "smart charging" stuff on the ranger)

For me, i have the v6 (you?) ... which is only an 80 amp alternator, and at idle the alternator spins maybe 30 amps.

So , at night ... highbeams, foggies, pair of lightforce 240's ... add some fuel pumps, ECU, internal fan, stereo, instrumentation ... demistors etc ... i find its very easy to overload my alternator at idle.

Again thats just an RPM issue, not at all related to the "smart charging" issues that some cars have (such as ranger, though apparently its easy to turn the "smart charging" off)

Ive just got a volt meter that shows voltages on both circuits ... if and when i notice her go below about 12.8 while the engine IS running, I know my alternator is not keeping up with load ... so ill either reduce load, or up the RPM with foot, or my idle-up switch.

[aandy]

Yes sorry was just referring to your comment about yours cutting out.... mines a diesel, maybe different. I also I dont have spotties or aftermarket stereo

[Qwerty]

yeah you have a better alternator

So you can eyeball your voltages at idle?

Additional issue I have is being a 5spd auto that i am always "in gear" and that also accounts for a further 200rpm drop ... so if im at lights around town , in D (or 4) , the engine is revving even less ... whereas in a manual of course you'd have clutch in, or gear stick in neutral and engine idling unloaded.

I sometimes flick my auto to N if sitting at lights (i dont bother engaging idle-up around town).

It doesnt bother me around town (wouldnt even know its occuring to most v6 owners ... unless they have a volt meter the watch while running). ... but say idling on a beach, i do ... because of all the extra load.

Recent situation, pulled out of coral bay at 1am ... driving at 80km/h because just way too much wildlife to risk 110 ... highbeams, spotties, fogs, DC-DC charger sucking 30 amps on boost because I have a fridge running, and a freezer running on aux, both of which had run the battery down a bit in the 6hrs before departure ... interior fan on ... and even then at 80km/h i was seeing the alternator struggl ... but that was because at 80km/r in 5th i was sitting on literally around 950-1000rpm .. normally if i was doing 100kmh+ ... the revs are up higher and therefore alternator at full spin.

If i get in my car, turn EVERYTHING on full (fan on 4, lights, foggies, lightbars, spots, redarc on boost etc etc) it will struggle even at full rpm (because its pullling more than 70-80amps).

Diesel i believe comes with a 130amp Alternator. Lucky for you guys

[2007Lux]

Call redarc directly. Yes they will be biased but it will give one point of view. Redarc have a forum on their website also. Maybe even ring Derek at Sidewinder and speak with him. I have spoken to both over the years and found them to be helpful.

Assuming the disclaimer is misguided either dcdc will work fine IMO. The idle up mod is a on separate thread I believe if you are looking for more discussion about this. I did a quick search but failed to find it

[07luxyTD]

The alternator voltage of the face lifted hiluxs from 2011 is determinded on the tempreture. Was talking to the redarc bloke at the camping show and he was telling me in summer he has seen his alternator output as low as 12.9v .

[Qwerty]

The alternator voltage of the face lifted hiluxs from 2011 is determinded on the tempreture. Was talking to the redarc bloke at the camping show and he was telling me in summer he has seen his alternator output as low as 12.9v .

They all are mate mine is. 2007

The redarcs do too. On a 40c day it will not charge much over 12.8v , by design

Safety to the battery

Hot batteries simply won't accept charge without damage ...

[07luxyTD]

Mine never goes below 13.5v regaurdless of temp. Well ive never seen it any lower. He mentioned about the engine temp being involved from 2011. I wasnt paying to much attention to him at this time as there was a little eye candy about

[BOM83R]

Never seen my 2012 SR drop below 13.5v even on 40+ days cruising at 110 all day. Measured using the voltmeter on my UHF (GME) which I have confirmed correct with my multimeter. My CTek D250S works perfect, never had a drama.

[Qwerty]

Hmm ok maybe I'm wrong about the temp sensing. That said , it's Def not same issue as the modern charging stuff some others suffer.

From another post (regarding ranger not hilux);

the battery issue is due to a "very smart" but ultimately flawed charging system, similiar to dramas my VE SS ute had.

I THINK.

The issue is not likely the battery itself, though once deadened once, you've damaged it for life.

The issue , at least with the VE, is the super smart charging system where charging rates to the battery are controlled by the computer, that isnt so smart. IN order to meet emissions targets, they employ a charging system that "tracks" the state of charge. That is, it *thinks* it knows where the battery is at, and will restrict charging if it "thinks" the battery is sufficiently charged.

It measures , i presume via a shunt, the load in an dout ... ie it measures the amount of power being pulled out of the battery and put back into battery.

so, it thinks it knows the SOC (state of charge). The problem is, you go and run other devices that the computer isnt detecting (especially when the car is off) and it STILl thinks the battery is ample charged and does not require any alternator load to re-charge it. Hence battery goes flat ... and the car is none the wiser, it still thinks that noones pulled any power out of it.

It assumes that noone or nothing else will be putting in or taking out power of the battery, than what it measures at its shunt.

Or something along those lines. The notion of it is to reduce fuel consumption and emissions by not "charging all the time" like most traditional charging scenarios do.

A senior foreman at holden explained it to me that way anyway, and basically said its a big complicated pain in the backside with flawed logic when applied in real world in the manner we use our vehicles.

There was *no* way around it in my VE because it was all controlled by computer. I'd simply self manage the battery, using an AC-DC charger, or solar or whatever... (and more to point I'd just run an auxillary battery as lets face it ... none of us should ever touch our starter batteries for anything other than starting... or running mission critical appliances like UHF etc.)

[07luxyTD]

Thanks for that post, i didnt see it in earlier posts. Cant wait to see how far the next set of euro standards will make us go with somthing that used to be as simple as charging a battery

[Qwerty]

Thanks for that post, i didnt see it in earlier posts. Cant wait to see how far the next set of euro standards will make us go with somthing that used to be as simple as charging a battery

Lol yep !

[2007Lux]

After reading the last couple of pages I did some reading of the redarc literature for both the Redarc BCDC1220 and BCDC1225 and the BCDC does not switch off at low voltage but rather boosts it up to the required output voltage.

Qwerty does your battery monitor tell you the redarc is turned off when you have all that load on? That is does the monitor on your aux battery read the battery voltage as say 12.7ish volts instead of the boost voltage output by the BCDC?

http://www.redarc.com.au/images/uploads ... Manual.pdf
Page 14, Q2. Yes this is for the 1225 and not the 1220 but I'm sure they work in the same way.

Frankly though, id think the redarc and cteks all suffer same fate... if they see a reduced alternator output, they think the alternator isnt coping, and so they switch themselves off. (unless what they actually mean is that the ctek DOESNT switch itself off, and you end up wiht a flat starter ... but even if thats true and you have a redarc, that sucks immensely because you won't be charging aux very often).

As to the former issue I mention regarding output while "idling", that simply means that at say 600RPM idling, the alternator drops its output ... voltage drops, and my DC-DC charger sees taht, and switches itself off (it realises the alternator output is low, and removes itself from charging the aux until the engine revs kick back in... it does this to protect the starter, or at least remove itself from the equation).

[aandy]

What turns the redarcs on and off?

[Qwerty]

2007lux : hmmm my BCDC redarc will switch itself off if the alternator output drops below about 12.6 for longer than about 10 seconds i think.

There must be soething in it doing that by design. My auto sparky best mate who fitted it told me that was the case?

Definately does it ... i watch my alternator voltage drop to say, 12.2 (idling in gear, spotlights on redarc on, alternator not coping) ... then suddenly it jumsp back up to 13.4v ... and if i then look at the voltage on the aux (redarc) circuit, it's dropped to non charge level meaning the redarc has stopped (and if you get out and open bonnet and look at bonnet, the redarc is blinking standby mode like it does when the engine is off)

My redarc has the ignition wire attached so it knows when the car is on or not ... but will still turn itself off if it detects input voltage below a certain amount I think its around 12.4v but im not sure).

It waits a little while and then once alternator voltage is back up it will kick back in (it does kick in and out a fair bit if im idling around with spottlights etc on, hence I use an IDLE UP switch).

Issue way more prevelant on the V6 as its an 80amp alterantor not 130amp on the D4D.

[Qwerty]

Ps 2007 lux I have two voltages monitored ,,, starter circuit and aux circuit. So in effect I can see the in and the out of the redarc

Yes when boosting, the redarc output is lower voltage (lots of amps) but its the starter voltages (alternator) I'm referring to ... And redarc defo turns itself off if alternator voltage is too low when engine running.

very important feautre if you ask me ... stops flattening of starter battery .. the redarc just decides "screw this im out of here, i wont be part of the murder of the starter..." ... of course if the load is STILl too great after redarc turns itself off, due to other appliances ... then youre still in trouble.

I've also had redarc turn off due to overheating ... it was about 80c in the engine bay

[Qwerty]

After reading the last couple of pages I did some reading of the redarc literature for both the Redarc BCDC1220 and BCDC1225 and the BCDC does not switch off at low voltage but rather boosts it up to the required output voltage.

Qwerty does your battery monitor tell you the redarc is turned off when you have all that load on? That is does the monitor on your aux battery read the battery voltage as say 12.7ish volts instead of the boost voltage output by the BCDC?

http://www.redarc.com.au/images/uploads ... Manual.pdf
Page 14, Q2. Yes this is for the 1225 and not the 1220 but I'm sure they work in the same way.

Frankly though, id think the redarc and cteks all suffer same fate... if they see a reduced alternator output, they think the alternator isnt coping, and so they switch themselves off. (unless what they actually mean is that the ctek DOESNT switch itself off, and you end up wiht a flat starter ... but even if thats true and you have a redarc, that sucks immensely because you won't be charging aux very often).

As to the former issue I mention regarding output while "idling", that simply means that at say 600RPM idling, the alternator drops its output ... voltage drops, and my DC-DC charger sees taht, and switches itself off (it realises the alternator output is low, and removes itself from charging the aux until the engine revs kick back in... it does this to protect the starter, or at least remove itself from the equation).

page 4 mate (referring to INPUT voltage, aka alternator)

edit : actually im not sure if that stuff on page 4 is referring to alternator input. Stuff on start of page 3 also loosely refers to something about isolating the starter (ie turning itself off). I think.

Dunno, maybe a phone call to redarc is needed... but mine, most definately, turns itself off if the input voltage from alternator falls below 12.somethingarather ... and my auto sparky said thats by design.

[Qwerty]

Ok spoke to lex at redarc on phone jusr now. 12.7 is the cut off. He said if input vintage from Alternator is 12.7 or less , while engine is running , it will turn itself off for exact reasons I mentioned above. (Alternator not coping so it removed itself from scenario to avoid discharge on primary battery )

Said can take up to 100 seconds to act.

Reckons page 3 explains it (seems vague to me )

[rustynailshilux]

Hi guys I have a 2013 td hilux just installed my ctek today seems to be running ok I hope I don't have any alternator issues ]

[sclaff]

Gday fellas, got a bit sick of the mess coming from the auxillary so i finailly sorted it out. Thought sum of you might wanna checkout my new setup.

This is where i stashed the redarc bcdc charger. I just welded a small bracket onto the existing battery bracket & it tucks in nicely behind the washer filler & headlight.



Made up a new battery bracket for the auxillary so i could fit the fuse box on top.



And heres the whole job.