2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

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2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

Postby chevaps on Sun, 18 Jun 2017 8:46 +0000

This morning I was going through the initial rego paperwork from the dealer to get some details required for Toyota Link app (which is garbage by the way....), and I noticed the GCM for the Hilux was stated as 6200kg. Thinking this was a mistake, I checked online on DOT direct (WA DPI) and even there it was 6200kg.

I then checked the compliance plate, and it only stated the GVM as 3000kg, no mention of GCM.

Before buying the car, i was going off the 5650kg GCM stated on the Toyota website (still the same).

The Hilux manual also states 5650kg.

So, after laying it all on the table, what is my actual GCM?
Could it be that Toyota have uprated the GCM when registering the car with the DPI to combat the negative hype behind the practical capabilities of the dual cab utes (i.e. reduction in payload to allow for maximum towing capability)?

I'd be interested in hearing what GCM is stated for Gen8 Hiluxes from different states and previous years.

Cheers.

Tom
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Re: 2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

Postby NofishNT on Sun, 18 Jun 2017 10:31 +0000

Tom,
Easiest method is GVM + Max Braked Towing = GCM.
I can't see Toyota upgrading paperwork if it's not rated.


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Re: 2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

Postby HK1837 on Mon, 19 Jun 2017 4:39 +0000

If you look on their website you can see the figures (yours must be an auto):

3000kg GVW for the Hilux.
3200kg towing capacity.

Whomever has done the paperwork has stuffed up and added these together to get 6200kg. Toyota rate the GCM as 5650kg, which means if you have the full 3200kg behind it you have to reduce the carrying capacity of the vehicle. The Tare is 2040kg as a standard vehicle and 5650-3200=2450. Thus your total carrying capacity is now 410kg.

So add a 60kg towbar, 75kg bullbar, maybe 60kg of diesel and two say 80kg people and you are now allowed to legally carry 55kg. So you cannot even have a 3rd person in the car.

Looks like Toyota have now gone over to the dark side of BS towing ratings. They used to publish sensible figures like 2250kg up to 2011 and later 2500kg which IIRC were at full rated vehicle load. They've been caught up in the BS all the other manufacturers have been doing for years. Try towing 3200kg behind one of these at highway speeds, and have a little moment and see if you think it is safe at 3200kg!
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Re: 2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

Postby adamkberger on Mon, 19 Jun 2017 2:42 +0000

I weighed my Hilux recently and it came in at 2440kg. All I have is a bullbar, dual batteries, canopy, drawers and a towbar. I think I only had 3/4 tank of diesel also. Doesn't take much to creep up in the weight department.
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Re: 2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

Postby chevaps on Wed, 21 Jun 2017 9:56 +0000

Just to clarify a few things:
1) I already stated i was aware of the 5650kg GCM, and still made the conscious decision to upgrade my car to the new Hilux. The specifications satisfied my towing needs.
2) I understand the implications of GCM, GVM, reduction in payload when towing >2650kg, assuming no additional accessories, no passengers, no driver :P

While i appreciate the members above responding to my post, I am not asking for people's opinions of towing 3200kg with the Hilux at highway speeds, or theoretically what GCM is, or what what their cars currently weigh.

I just wanted to know what my GCM is from a legal perspective, and was hoping to hear back what GCM is stated on other member's registration paperwork. I would be more convinced that whoever did my paperwork stuffed up if forum members (particularly those from WA) could let me know what GCM their rego papers state.

Thanks

Tom
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Re: 2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

Postby Gipsy on Thu, 22 Jun 2017 9:42 +0000

I would suggest DOT figures are what the police and transport authority use to book you if you are over, dunno what Toyota did to get their figure but I think whatever the authority says is good for us :shock:

Probably the figures on your paperwork is what the authority put there not the dealer, so it looks like thats what the authority says it is!
Hk's and nofish's calculated figure of 3000 + 3200 sounds what the authority used.

Just to add to the confusion if you take into consideration the tow ball weight, say 250kg then you must add that to the load of the vehicle and deduct from the trailer weight, then it becomes clear as mud if you add uplift hitch/equalizer bars etc. Just my 2 cents worth ;)

I would trust what my paperwork/authority says despite the discrepancy.
Cheers Gipsy :D
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Re: 2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

Postby HK1837 on Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:16 +0000

I would only trust the rated GCM from Toyota. The other will be an error.
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Re: 2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

Postby Gipsy on Thu, 22 Jun 2017 12:26 +0000

HK1837 wrote:I would only trust the rated GCM from Toyota. The other will be an error.


Tell that to the copper who books you ;) wait for the next "dark side bs" and see if Toyota follow the rest of the pack re towing weight etc. I imagine in court your paperwork from dot would hold water!

I would like to hear the argument for a 3.5 tonne towing weight for a Colorado or navara.

GROSS COMBINATION MASS - value specified for the vehicle by the ‘Manufacturer’ as being the maximum of the sum of the ‘Gross Vehicle Mass’ of the drawing vehicle plus the sum of the ‘Axle Loads’ of any vehicle capable of being drawn as a trailer.

GROSS VEHICLE MASS (GVM) - the maximum laden mass of a motor vehicle as specified by the ‘Manufacturer’.

For info and clarity this is what the ADR says

So on that basis the figure of 6200kg is incorrect! So much confusion but no definitive answer! :?

After due consideration and research i now agree with HK1837 but it would be interested in a test case in court.

Whomever has done the paperwork has stuffed up and added these together to get 6200kg. Toyota rate the GCM as 5650kg, which means if you have the full 3200kg behind it you have to reduce the carrying capacity of the vehicle. The Tare is 2040kg as a standard vehicle and 5650-3200=2450. Thus your total carrying capacity is now 410kg.

So add a 60kg towbar, 75kg bullbar, maybe 60kg of diesel and two say 80kg people and you are now allowed to legally carry 55kg. So you cannot even have a 3rd person in the car.

This discussion has raged on another forum called Caravanner forum or something similar for a decade without any definitive answer so good luck and keep us posted :? Don't even think of putting a tinnie and outboard motor in the back unless you leave the wife behind :roll: Add the ball weight of the Van and deduct it from the caravan weight and call the Chief scientist and see what he/she says.
Cheers Gipsy :D
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Re: 2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

Postby HK1837 on Thu, 22 Jun 2017 3:14 +0000

I know people think it is confusing, but It is a very simple equation:

GCM is the TRAILER (disconnected from the car) plus the CAR. If you drive on a weighbridge with both car and trailer wheels on the weighbridge, that is GCM. Gross Combined Mass.

I know you have to start thinking about towball weight etc. if you start looking at the trailer's wheel loading as the towball adds to the car's carried load. However GCM is not that complicated.

Where the confusion comes from is (using my Toyota as an example but most/all are the same) the Manufacturers state max towing as BRAKED and UNBRAKED figures. Mine is 2250kg and 750kg respectively, and these figures relate to the trailer ATM (uncoupled weight of the trailer sitting on a weighbridge weighing its axle(s) and the jockey wheel). All well and good. However in NSW the unbraked trailer weight is also 750kg but it is GTM, which is the trailer axle/wheel load - it does not include the towball weight. So assuming a towball weight of 10%, the unbraked towing limit is 825kg ATM. Same with the 2000kg limit for single axle braking, it is 2000kg GTM, so essentially 2200kg ATM.

I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on in Court if you caused a million dollar accident towing 3200kg in a 2016 diesel auto Hilux, with the uncoupled car fully loaded above 2450kg on a weighbridge scale. Your Insurance Company would simply say "sorry, you are operating the vehicle outside the manufacturer's guidelines". They simply would not care what the local transport authority says. This isn't restricted to Hiluxes, has been going on for years with farcical towing claims from other Manufacturers. Thing is Toyota only recently joined the bullsh!t brigade. My 2011 SR5 GCM is 5060kg. Towing capacity is 2250kg. Guess what the GVM is? 2810kg. Towing on these was rated at full vehicle load as it should be. The other manufacturers started claiming ludicrous towing capability, like the 3500kg of the PX XLT dual cab 4x4 Ranger, yet the GCM is only 6000kg. With the car itself having a Kerb weight of 2200kg you are left with only 300kg of carrying capacity which is essentially all gone with a bullbar and two people in the car. No room for even a canopy or toolbox let alone all the luggage, heavier tyres etc etc. Insurance - forget it!
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Re: 2017 SR5 Dual Cab Auto GCM rating

Postby Gipsy on Thu, 22 Jun 2017 4:32 +0000

Agreed, that is precisely the argument I presented at the caravanner forum and was asked to leave by the mods, presumedly by a mod with a navara, my argument began with the figure above and I suggested that he leave either the tinnie or the wife behind ;) I feel very afraid when I see much overloaded navaras with 3.5tonne vans behind and the tinnie, outboard, Waco fridges, washing machine in the tub, as well as mum,dad and 3 kids and the family Rottweiler. :o

Just to add, when I made this argument I had a Toyota 80 series 1hdt diesel with towing max at 2500kg and the very next model was elevated to 3500 kg without any noticeable changes to the vehicle. Wonder why the upgrade? Sales competition I guess. :oops:
Cheers Gipsy :D
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