Hilux cutting out at high speed

[Skrewdriver]

Hello,

I have an issue with my 2012 SR5.

I will be driving along the Hunter Expressway and suddenly, the car will just cut out randomly. It could happen in the afternoon, or in the morning. It happens once the car is up to running temperature.

There is a jolt through the entire car, like it has jumped out of gear, but it is still in gear. The car will shut down.

I either drop it into neutral and re start, or just clutch start it at the speed I am going. I am usually sitting on between 110km/h and 120km/h.

It has 300000km on the clock, and the T-BELT light is on the dash.

Is it an electrical issue or is it related to the required Timing Belt change that is required?

As far as electrical modifications go, the only thing that I have in the car is a UHF.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Peter

[Gipsy]

Peter, it's unlikely to be an electrical problem because once the engine is started the diesel doesn't need electrics to run. No lights other than tbelt? It sounds more like fuel, changed filter lately? Check the filter for water? I'd be looking at fuel but if you have an obd scanner check for faults pending. You don't always get the engine light until a threshold is reached, that's why faults pending is a good warning sign. There was an issue with the fuel filter where if there is any water in there it can get through the filter without showing a fuel light on the dashboard. It happens particularly at higher speeds where fuel flow is higher. Apparently in these high flow conditions the float in the filter is held down below the trigger level for the fuel contaminant warning.

[Skrewdriver]

Peter, it's unlikely to be an electrical problem because once the engine is started the diesel doesn't need electrics to run. No lights other than tbelt? It sounds more like fuel, changed filter lately? Check the filter for water? I'd be looking at fuel but if you have an obd scanner check for faults pending. You don't always get the engine light until a threshold is reached, that's why faults pending is a good warning sign. There was an issue with the fuel filter where if there is any water in there it can get through the filter without showing a fuel light on the dashboard. It happens particularly at higher speeds where fuel flow is higher. Apparently in these high flow conditions the float in the filter is held down below the trigger level for the fuel contaminant warning.

Hello Gypsy,

I normally change all the filters on the vechile when i do a service, but due to the current living conditions (living with MIL in a 2 bedroom unit whilst our new home get's built) i do not have the space or the tools (everything is in storage) to do the servicing myself. The past 2/3 services have been done by my wifes cousin (qualified mechanic, very trustworthy) to do just the oil and oil filter.

No other lights on the dash board, only the T-BELT.

Thank you for your advice, could/would it be anything else, or your still pointing towards fuel/fuel filter?

As far as fuel goes, i fill up at the same servo and same bowser every Sunday night.

Regards,

Peter

[Gipsy]

Peter, it's a very simple task to check the drain on the fuel filter for water. I use a jam jar so you can check for water/contaminate. Using the same servo and bowser is a great safety practice but if a tanker has just filled up the servo tank and left just before you arrived it stirs up all the crap in the tank and you get it in your tank.
I know this because when my Hilux was brand new, I filled up at a dodgy servo in the middle of the night and 50ks down the road there was water in the filter, fortunately the light did come on.
It's worth getting an obd scanner if you don't have one. Bluetooth ones are less than $20 and a great investment.
Try the drain trick first, it's always an easy check to eliminate that issue. I do it before and after every fill-up.
The only electrical issue which may explain things is the solenoid which shuts the throttle valve off when you turn off the engine. If there's an intermittent short there it could cause those symptoms. That's getting beyond my pay rate so any help from the sparkies would be beneficial.

[Rob_Wood]

If the timing belt is on AND you haven't changed the Tbelt yet, then I'd get it done as a matter of urgency because:
1. If it let's go then you're in for a world of hurt in getting your vehicle going again. They are designed to only last a certain period of time (Number of kilometres).
2. Some vehicles have a "safety" shut down or "snail pace" warning that is designed to let you know to "nurse" your vehicle along until urgent works are completed. I am unsure if Hilux has this, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Gipsy]

Yes Hilux has 'limp mode' when certain conditions are met but I don't think that's the problem here otherwise there would be a MIL (malfunction indicator light) or engine light.
Yes a broken timing belt causes serious problems but I don't believe it happens when you're 5kms over the light coming on... That's tied to the odometer not the condition of the tbelt.

[martynvella]

Dont think there is a float in the fuel water seperator.
Least i have never seen it, mine has a probe type sensor.
These engines rely heavily on electrics to run. But it should be recording a logged code if the fault is bad enough to actually stop the engine, if it has a logged code the light will be on.
If the fault is in the supply to the ecm it will think it is being turned off and will not see this as a fault and log a code.

[Gipsy]

Ok Martyn you're probably correct about the float but as I understand there is a problem with earlier design filter elements (now revised by Toyota) and after market ones where high flow conditions allows water in the bottom of the housing to get through the filter due to turbulence. Apparently Toyota fixed this by putting a different skirt on the newer filters. And yes there should be a code, at least in the pending codes so that's where I'm a bit confused about why there isn't one. Maybe there's a need to check for codes to track down this issue. As indicated many times, it's difficult to diagnose a Hilux if it isn't in front of you. As a sparkie I'm sure you would follow a simple problem-solving checklist starting with the easiest and most likely cause... I went to fuel and then to the MIL and OBD to check codes.
While you're on the case Martyn, is it possible this could be due to the vehicle immobiliser? I understood it prevents the engine from running but I'm not sure how it does it. The surprising bit is that the vehicle is able to restart.

[Rob_Wood]

Yes Hilux has 'limp mode' when certain conditions are met but I don't think that's the problem here otherwise there would be a MIL (malfunction indicator light) or engine light.

I agree, if all the dash lights are working properly.

Yes a broken timing belt causes serious problems but I don't believe it happens when you're 5kms over the light coming on... That's tied to the odometer not the condition of the tbelt.

Didn't see the bit about 5kms over, sorry. Just that Murphy really hates me, so I got mine done at around 298 thou'.

Just thinking out loud here, is it a Diesel or Petrol? I had an old XW Falcon years ago that would "pop" the accelerator linkage ball joints apart without warning, that used to stop me pretty quickly and occasionally even caused a compression lock-up. Before anyone says it, I know there's no linkages like that any more, just trying to trigger outside the box thinking for you guys.

[Gipsy]

No Rob definately outside the box there... No linkages and the vehicle restarted after the shut down.
And yes it's all depending on whether the dash lights are working but I thought that's a no-brainer.
And yes if you're a bit ocd you get the tbelt done 2ks before the light comes on Murphy's Law accepted
I'm still looking into the float in the filter issue, I'm sure I read it in a Toyota memo somewhere but I accept it's more likely to be a probe.... Been a while since I looked inside the filter housing.

[Rob_Wood]

I'm still looking into the float in the filter issue, I'm sure I read it in a Toyota memo somewhere but I accept it's more likely to be a probe.... Been a while since I looked inside the filter housing.

There ya go, what you've said here reminds me of something on a Patrol years ago. Ever used biofuels? In cooler climates it turns to butter in the lines. Takes a bit of tank cleaner in about 3 or 4 consecutive tanks to clean it out. It tends to clog up everything and on a warm day will get through the filter and into the injectors. Once in the pots it causes huge carbon buildups.
Not hard to be stuck with biofuels by accident these days, some servo's have a biodiesel pump right next to normal diesel pump.

[Gipsy]

Rob, you never know if you're getting biodiesel these days, servos and fuel companies are not required to tell you nowadays, if it's under 5 percent they definitely don't so assume it's always bio! If it says biodiesel at the pump, assume it's over 5 percent.
That would not be the issue here, the op said he can restart the Hilux.

[martynvella]

Im thinking that if it was a fuel issue it would not restart and return to the exact same engine load conditions almost immediately.
I think the loud clunk felt through the car is going to be the key to this one but I have no idea what it might be.

Gypsy, I cant say it isnt the imobiliser but there are many things it "might "be. I do not know how the systems work in these vehicles.

There should be absolutely no senario that the electronics will shut down the engine after it is started if there unless the fault lays within the electrical system itself. The driver is the only thing that can shut the enging down if all is well with the systems, the most it can do is put the light on and derate the engine.

Intermittent problems are the worst problem if the logged codes cant give you some sort of clue. A schematic will be essential and a scantool very helpful

[Gipsy]

Absolutely Martyn. I agree with all that. It appears to be an intermittent fault and probably won't show a code. That's why I thought it 'could be' the immobiliser or the throttle shut-off solenoid. We haven't heard back lately from the op (skrewdriver) so maybe it's resolved or hasn't happened since?
And yes I agree the engine could shut down with an electronic fault but as far as I understand the diesel will just run terribly rough if there's a fault there, beats me how it can restart and run as normal after.

[Rob_Wood]

Rob, you never know if you're getting biodiesel these days, servos and fuel companies are not required to tell you nowadays, if it's under 5 percent they definitely don't so assume it's always bio! If it says biodiesel at the pump, assume it's over 5 percent.
That would not be the issue here, the op said he can restart the Hilux.

The reason it clicked was when I was stuck with it, the butter in the lines would reduce fuel flow, shutting down the engine. Button pump on the filter got it going again for a while. Distance travelled each time depended on temperature and thus how thick the butter, thus how effective the blockage was.
This was a big problem because I had used biodiesel for a few months leading into winter. Live & learn I guess.