mmaaxx wrote:I removed me swaybar today as part of my front suspension research and bashplate investigation to see how the hilux would drive and how much more, if any uptravel there would be when suspension was compressed.
Here's what I found.
I measured the front of the vehicle before and after removal and after removal the bottom of the numberpate (which I used as a refernce point) was 5 to 6 mm higher than before.
Also, I took her to the back paddocks here and parked her crossed up with the left hand rear up on a mound, forcing the front right hand tyre hard into the guard.
With wheels straight ahead this is what it looked like-
Just missing the bullbar on the front and just touching on the top centre
At the rear of the guard when tyres straight ahead it was just touching the rib on the inner plastic trim.
Alot more uptravel without the swaybar fitted. I'd say atleast 15mm maybe 20mm.
With the steering turned and the tyre at its closest to the bodymount, it was just touching
This mount will be getting the Maxi treatment and some cut and welded to trim it back.
Before the swaybar removal, when flexed on the same mound the same way, I had a good 10-12mm of clearance all around the tyre at the rear of the guards.
Interesting to see how much higher the tyre has been able to tuck in.
Offroad, each side works more independantly and actually fells better going over mounds and ruts. On the road there is a little bit more front body roll but when you drive like a grandpa it's not gonna be a problem
Now when the vehicle was crossed up like in the first few pics, and the front right tyre tucked into the guard, the bump stop was just lightly pressing on the Lower Control Arm, and the coils were pretty much fully compressed.
In the future, I'll be putting a spacer on the bump stop, or getting after market ones, and limit the front uptravel by about 15mm.
Honestly, unless someone can prove me otherwise, a big 33 inch tyre like I have (33.1" going by specs) with full suspension compression is as big as your gonna be able to get in our guards without either a drop bracket lift ir a very stiff front suspension that doesnt give "full" compression.
mmaaxx wrote:The ride on the front end is abit softer, and, atleast in my case, you can see the increase bodyroll on the front end.
Im not throwing it around corner and drifting so it doesnt bother me.
I removed the swaybar in my previous 03 hilux, and I reckon it was heaps better on that aswell.
My main issue removing it was to gain more clearance under the front for a custom bashplate, and to get each side moving more independantly of each other, the side effect of that is I have to limit my uptravel now with extended bump stops and some trimming of the body mount.
cant have it all and you have to weigh up the options.
mmaaxx wrote:Ok,
got another update here, wasnt sure on whether to start a new thread about modifying the bump stop or not, but since its all related here with comparison pics I thought Id stick with it in this thread for those that are still interested.
First thing was to go to Supercheap and get a new Creeper, was getting sick of using cardboard all the time to lie down on
I jumped under the truck and unless you have an 80mm socket or spanner of some sort, your best bet will be to use a hammer and a chisel to knock on one of the corners of the bumpstop surround, to tap it loose. Once loose it comes out by hand.
As you can see by the pics below, the thread that is available is 17mm long. Not including the bit ontop of the thread , just the actual thread that holds.
I had some large 6mm washers lying around and decided to use these as my bump stop extenders. Sittin ontop of the bump stop it gives me 11mm of thread to still use.
Personally, I wouldnt be going any more than this. And I used Loctite on the thread before re-installing.
[b]NOTE: For those of you that didnt know, whatever distance you add to the bumpstop, it will double at the wheel/tyre. So my 6mm spacer will limit my uptravel by 12mm.[/b]
Heres a pic of it installed on the vehicle-
I then went to the same paddock I went to yesterday and backed it up on angle on the same mound to compare results with yesterdays. Heres what I found-
I have eliminated the tyre touching the top of the flare by the exact amount that I wanted, that being 12mm from the 6mm spacer. You can compare the difference with the pics earlier on in the thread.
Below you can see how the bump stop now looks. When comparing this pic to the before pic earlier on the inner side of the bumpstop is slightly pressed in abit more. This is good because it works as a safety mechanism to stop the actual strut front bottoming out before the bumpstop, which can cause strut failure and possibly worse.
And finally, the clearance at the rear of the bottom mount under full steering lock and full suspension compression.
As you can see the very edge of the rubber sidebiters is "just" touching....not as bad as yesterday but touching non the less.
This will require trimming as mentioned previously.
Conclusion: I have achieved more uptravel even with the bumpstop spacer installed I reckon that there would be about 15 to 20mm of increased up travel atleast. Each side of the front suspension works more independantly of each and a softer ride offroad. I have more clearance underneath for an high clearance custom bashplate that I will get onto working on soon.
And in reply to Bull's request for a measurement of the total front suspension travel I have done that as well.
Bull mate, after the 6mm spacer install(15mm uptravel reduction) I have exactly 4 inches of down travel and 4.7" of uptravel equating to 8.7" of total suspension travel.
Thats .7 of an inch more than what Wizard advertises their kit at. Yeah, I may not have as expensive components but the results I think speak for themselves.
mmaaxx wrote:well all this thread is stuff anybody could do themselves. If you had thinner tyres, you could make used of the extra inch of clearance that there is above the tyre inside the actual guard. The width of my tyres is one of the limiting factors and why it almost hits the flare.
By trimming the rear mount "properly" I reckon now you'd be able to fit a 34/10.5 x 15 or 16 tyre in there will full suspension travel.
Bull wrote:mmaaxx wrote:Bull mate, after the 6mm spacer install(15mm uptravel reduction) I have exactly 4 inches of down travel and 4.7" of uptravel equating to 8.7" of total suspension travel.
So if you add in the extra 15mm (0.6") you'd have 9.3" travel. Thanks, that's pretty good aye.
The results interest me because it's what I will do to mine. I don't think I've ever left a sway-bar on one of my off-road cars.
Just to set the record straight for anyone interested in doing this, it doesn't increase wheel travel. Wheel travel is determined by the length of the strut and the bumpstop. All it does is free everything up. It is quite achievable to bottom out one or both bumpstops with the swaybar in place. Good thing mmaaxx didn't do this before the spacers went on or the tyres would have carved into the 'guards.
mmaaxx wrote:Thats why I go and test her out in the paddocks under "controlled conditions"
You always have to prepare your vehicle for the worst and its that 1 time that the front end comes down harder than normal that you find out if you or your suspension bloke have set the front up correctly.
KTM, Rod is right in whats he's saying. Looking at the pics above, before I fitted the spacers, the suspension was "almost" fully compressed, how much more compression there would have been I wasnt too sure but the coils were very close together and the bump stop was "just" touching the LCA.
My main concern for the bump stop spacer was to stop the tyre carving up the guards like a chainsaw, but it is also a small safety buffer for the strut.
If you strut is bottoming out under full compression and you jump underneath and check the clearance between the bump stop and the LCA and there is some, then your in trouble. the bump stop NEEDS to bottom out before the strut does.
This is where coil spacer on top of the strut are a dangerous proposition if you 'wheel' your fourby and not just "mall crawling" it.
The factory strut has a pre determined internal stop position. By placing a 25mm or more spacer on top you are pushing the limits of the stopper inside the strut by that amount, therefore when you come down hard on the front suspension your strut is going to bottom out (insert coil spacer thickness here) earlier than the bumpstop. High probability of the strut collapsing and pulling your driveshaft and front diff internal out with it.
10K had some pics of his strut failing a while back....wasnt due to these spacer, but the bottom of the strut broke, and pulled out his front diff internals along with the driveshaft. You dont want to be in the middle of woop woop when that happens.
So if you got a coil spacer ontop of the strut, I suggest you go and test out the front suspension flex and bump stop location and see if it needs extending or if you need to replace the whole front strut with a longer one in its place, coz it could save ya heaps of cash and heartache in the long run.
