Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

[Talktheroo]

I did service on a Provent 200 the other day, in a Prado 120 Grande.
It was half full of oil residue, after about six months of use.
The Provent 200 catch cans, the Mann Hummel brand, is definitely the answer to this problem, and is legal, as well.
Note, this is to get rid of that oil residue from re entering the EGR system, just clean gas.
Very engine oil change out, check your sump screen for blockages.
The Roo.

[Edededdy]

Hi guys.
I am a first time Toyota owner and just purchased a 2'nd hand Hilux D4D less than 4 months ago on the auctions. It is a 2007 Hilux dual cab.
It ran well except for the ticking noise which these forums explained were related to the injectors which quietened after about 10 minutes. However they were not bad, I got good economy and the vehicle performed very well. I did not notice any smoke as I parked up hill.

I purchased it with 163K on the clock and immediately changed the oil and filters myself as a precaution as the last service record was at 150K. However due to the extended warranty I had to take out with the finance company, I have to take the vehicle to a mechanic, so I took it in for a service at 166K which was the earliest I could take it in, and had them do the 160K service which I was told was a major service by the mechanic.

I took it for a drive two days later and after travelling less than 150 kilometres the engine died. I pulled over and restarted the engine which started first time. Except that the oil light remained on and now I had a loud knocking noise from near the top of the engine. I drove it a short distance and the oil light began to flash on and off as though the engine was not getting enough oil pressure.

Needless to say, I had it towed to the mechanic and he proceeded to check it and came back to me to say that the oil pickup was blocked. He showed it to me using the camera. He claims that the problem is not his since the blocked pickup is a known problem and unavoidable and therefore no ones fault.

This is where I get lost. Why did the oil light not come on until after the engine stoped? Is this a manufacturing fault? What the hell is with that? What is the point of an oil light that comes on only after there is a problem?

Also, what the heck do they do for a 160K $500 major service? I feel let down by the service people since I believed that this being a major service they would have checked this. The invoice shows that they carried out the service as per the manufacturers handbook service schedule. It shows that they used an engine oil flush. How come that never cleaned the pickup?

When I drained the oil at 163K, there was no sign of carbon or grit in the oil I drained. I was not aware of the grit on the oil pickup until after the problem and after reading these forums.

Now the mechanic tells me I need an engine rebuild that I cannot afford! He cannot quote me until he lifts the head to see what has been damaged. The extended warranty from the financing company only covers the motor to a value of $1750. Would it be cheaper to get a reconditioned motor, if so does anyone know of a reputable place? I am in the Brisbane area.

Also, can anyone tell me what is supposed to be done at a 160k service? By the book tells me nothing. Surely there should be a schedule to check for these issues if it is so well known?

Any suggestions or advice would be really appreciated. This is the lousiest Christmas present anyone can get this time of year, and as a first time Toyota owner, I am very disillusioned.

[boxhead55]

Sorry it is a known problem and he should have checked. Looks like you are heading for a small claims court appearance. Good luck. Just remember he is the last to service it. As he was the last to check it he did not know what to check for? It is his fault.
Again good luck.

[Talktheroo]

As BH stated above, it's off to QCAT mate. That's small claims here in Queensland.
The blow by issue is a manufacturing fault. The injector seats (sheets in TMC language) fail, letting the exhaust gases escape into the inner cylinder head. This in turn, causes a chemical reaction with the engine oil causing carbon deposits.
The carbon deposits then find there way down to the sump and in turn block the sump screen, starving the engine of engine oil or lubrication. This then rights off the block, as in the photos on page 13 of this thread.
The best seats out there for these vehicles fitted with the 1KD-FTVs, is the Toyota seats.
A lot of vehicles could have been saved from this condition, if only most Toyota Service Centres did what TMC wanted, under the procedure set out in the valve clearance section of the GSIC.
Under warranty, all vehicles would have received new seats at the 40,000 and 80,000km services, if this had been followed. A number of service centres, just did an audible check, so the seats didn't get changed out, wink, wink.
Usually, it's uneconomical to rebuild the engine, the labour content, and it's cheaper just to install a new long engine.
PM me Ed, if you want, and I will see if I can help you.
The Roo.

[Hellbound]

Why on earth do the dealers not follow the exact instructions set out by toyota. The dealer would responsible as they havent followed the proper guidelines and not TMC's fault really

[BIGFOOTJR]

You have every right to feel let down by the service center. I would seeking advice on taking the workshop to civil court.

[boxhead55]

Why on earth do the dealers not follow the exact instructions set out by toyota. The dealer would responsible as they havent followed the proper guidelines and not TMC's fault really

Because it is a cost to the customer ( were and tare item) and if the tappets require adjustment the cost can run anywhere from 500 to 800 dollars depending on the shims required





The customer normally Signs they do not want to do them. And only do an stethoscope check. Audible check.

And yes we recommend they do. But they still sign the specially made stamp which states they did not want to.

We always!!! Check sump screens.

[Talktheroo]

That might be at the Toyota dealership that you work at BH.
History has now proven that most dealerships either didn't explain the situation, or simple took it upon themselves, just to do the audible check, without the customers full knowledge of what could happen if those seats were not changed out.
Look, to be fair, there was some dealerships that did stick to the procedures, but not many.
TMC has ordered the dealerships to check all sump screens. This happened in that recent visit to Port Melbourne and some dealerships.
The Roo.

[Hellbound]

Yep, i have never ever been offered any options as far as having the proper check done and would have done so if given the opportunity. Never been offered an injector seal replacement meant either, car now has 100,000km...

What needs to happen is standardisation of dealer procedures that comply with what TMC recommends. Anyone with a toyota car SHOULD be able to take it to any dealer any where in the country and receive the same procedures regarding servicing and repairs, period.

[Talktheroo]

I also think, that if it was explained to the consumer of this engine (1KD-FTV), that if they didn't go ahead with this important service, under warranty, that there could be a major problem in the future, most people would have done the service and paid the $800.00 plus for the service.
All it did, was for people like me, outsiders that new there could be a problem, made us all look like we were rip offs, and Toyota Service, not.
Some of you guys, did the wrong thing, and now there's this blow by problem, which is quite a common problem now.
It's interesting to note, that blow by also leads to injector failure, as well.
Why, I hear you say, well, the carbon blocks the oil galleries going to the injector ports in the cylinder head. These ports allow engine oil to cool the bottom half of the injectors, when the port is not blocked by carbon from blow by.
This is why the injectors have that seal (O ring type) half way up the housing, to stop the oil coming out of the injector port.
I am going to be really fair here, and state the Toyota Service Centres, that I know who were following the TMC procedure.
Sunshine Toyota, Torque Toyota, Grand Motors, and Windsor Toyota. I am sure there are more, but they are the only ones that I know of.
If any other members know of any other Toyota Service Centres, that actually did do the TMC valve clearance to the GSIC procedure, please name them here. They deserve it.
The Roo.

[Hellbound]

I can tell you with total assurity that Grand toyota in WA do NOT follow the tmc procedures for valve clearance checks or injector seal replacements!

[Talktheroo]

You got me going now.
I also think, that it is unfair to expect that a local general mechanic that works outside of the dealership arrangement, be expected to know that they have to check the sump screen for blockages, on this engine (1KD-FTV).
I think it's only fair to say, without Toyota Australia issuing an industry bulletin, which hasn't happened, about this problem, blow by and the effects of, that a general mechanic, cannot be held responsible for damages, unless the industry bulletin is done to every organisation, big and small, in Australia.
After all, it's all the Toyota dealerships that worked on these engines (1KD-FTV), and did the wrong thing in the first place with the valve clearance procedure, under warranty, that are to blame.
I mean, what was there excuse for this. All they had to do was read the GSIC documentation, as laid out in the agreements with Toyota Motor Corporation and thus, Toyota Australia.
A local general mechanic (independent), that goes and changes the engine oil with a general service on one of these potential time bombs, and in that period, the block gets taken out with blow by, and he or she is held responsible legally. I don't think so, especially when there has been no attempt by Toyota Australia to educate the industry at large.
The word responsibility comes to mind here, and I don't think that's what will happen with the other side of the industry.
That is, us independents. That is unfair, and most of us will not cop it.
It's Toyota Australia's responsibility to clean up this mess and the dealerships that did the wrong thing with the valve clearance procedure.
All those vehicles running around with the old copper seats (11176-30010) in them, should be recalled and replaced with the new coated seats, and you guys know this is the right thing to do, legally and morally.
After all, this has happened in other parts of the world, why not here?
Is it bend over Australians, just like most things in this country now? I hope not Toyota Australia.
While I am at it, on another issue, the price of parts.
Not long ago, I could buy the 23670-39316s x 4 injectors, so a set of 4, the 5 gaskets for the leakage pipe, the 4 seats or sheets, and the 5 new injector pipes for $1860.00 AUD from New Zealand, landed to your door. We are talking 2013, here.
Over here in Australia, trade mind you, from Toyota Parts was $4,100.00 for the same thing, at the time, WHY?
Is this another bend over moment, is it TA? That's just one of many examples of how, us Australians, have to bend over in, now a global market place.
I note, that the Abbott government has tried to close our access to the global market, but come next election, they will get thrown out for doing so, by the Australian people.
Use Australians are sick of this attitude, where you think you have the right to rip us off, and we are all sick to death of it, especially me.
It's time for you Toyota Australia, to do the right thing here, as you have done in the past.
The Roo.

[Talktheroo]

Yep, i have never ever been offered any options as far as having the proper check done and would have done so if given the opportunity. Never been offered an injector seal replacement meant either, car now has 100,000km...

What needs to happen is standardisation of dealer procedures that comply with what TMC recommends. Anyone with a toyota car SHOULD be able to take it to any dealer any where in the country and receive the same procedures regarding servicing and repairs, period.

Yes, well, that is what the GSIC (the Toyota Motor Corporation bible) site is supposed to be about. But we have had some break away service centres that think there better then the Toyota engineers, it would seem, in this country.
So, they basically came up with there own way of doing a procedure.
The valve clearance procedure is a good example of this.
The Roo.

[4sullima]

Although I already knew about the issue via this forum, at my 40k service, Sci fleet Toyota, Albion, brisbane, told me all about the issue, they were very informative and explained the issue in depth. As well as telling me that I would receive new sheets ( 2012 model so I already have new coated seats ) along with my valve clearance. So yes, they were upfront and honest about the problem, but if they actually did all of this I'm not sure.

[4sullima]

I'm hearing you roo

[Hellbound]

Did they charge you for this as an extra ontop of the regular service?

[4sullima]

I'll have to check the invoice mate, I didn't pay too much attention ( was def somewhere around the cap price )
Additional price for seats may have been on invoice, I heard on here somewhere that they are around $20, so I wouldn't have really noticed. I'll have a look and get back to you.

[Talktheroo]

Sci Fleet. Well, it's about time they were upfront with their consumer base.
Good to hear this. I hope the work was actually carried out.
As I said, TMC has been over here, paying the Australian division some attention, which it needed to do.
It will be an extra charge for this service, unless it's decided otherwise. The reason why, is there is to many hours in this job.
If there is a recall by Toyota Australia, on this service, it will be free to the customer.
The Roo.

[Talktheroo]

The above photo shows the Toyota genuine seat (Part number 11176-30011) and the Bailey's Group seat on the right of the photograph, the shiny one. Don't use the BDG injector seats, at the moment. They are brass based.
The Roo.

[BDG]

Of course ROO! we all know Shiny is better!

In all seriousness, our seats are a little different, we run a slightly different copper core mix and slightly different coating as well (for better heat shielding properties). At the end of the day, there is not a MASSIVE difference between the two, but all small improvements add up!

Cheers for the comments