Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

[James84]

Cheers mate, it's had full Toyota servicing upto 210ks.
I'll chuck my reading up tomorrow if I get a chance.

[Talktheroo]

Is there any way to know if injectors or seats have been changed? I have an 08/08 build with nearly 230k on it, I checked feedback values with techstream, and when warm, all injectors read within +\- 1 of each other.

From my experience, you are better off changing the injector seats out, to the Bailey's Diesel Group ones. They are the best seats.
I have been working on a Prado 150, 2010, the last couple of days, and it had the beginnings of blow by in number three cylinder. This is with the new designed Toyota injector seats in it, from when the vehicle was manufactured.
Once again, the injector seats had never been changed at the valve clearance services.
Two times, the Toyota dealerships had their change to do the right thing, but sadly, the seats had not been changed out.
I see you. The 40,000km and the 80,000km services.
Into my evidence box, with photographs.
This is just one example of many.
I really think you are mad if you take your diesel vehicles to these people, just my opinion.
If you can't work on the vehicle yourself, find a good diesel fitter, or mechanic.
The Roo.

[martynvella]

Is there any way of telling if the seats are leaking short of waiting for the screen build up or pulling them out and looking.

When the clogged screens are removed, are the particles jammed in tight or do they fall away with a light tap on the bench?

[Talktheroo]

You can't really, except the sump screen inspection thing.
This is what I think, for what it is worth.
If you stick to what is in the TMC's service book, you shouldn't really get blow by, at all.
The engineers in Japan, really did get that documentation right. The problem is when dealerships and people don't follow the procedures, whatever that maybe.
That means, at the valve clearance services, you change out the seals and injector seats to new ones.
As I have said, Matt Bailey's company (BDG) manufacture the best injector seats for the Denso injectors.
My customer base, no blow by, as yet.
Unfortunately, if you get someone to do this service, it will be expensive. It's time consuming, and like doing a injector job, only not putting back the new injectors.
Provention is king.
The Roo.

[martynvella]

Thanks for that, did you find the particles to be packed in to the screen or does it come away easily?

The reason im asking is something I hope I never need.

would it be possible to back flush the screen using a pump arrangement similar to what we used to use to prime oil pumps by pumping oil into the system somewhere like a sender hole, would the pumps in these motors allow oil to flow backwards through them when static?

Just a thought.

[Talktheroo]

Hmmm..... Good question, Marty.
It's a bit heart breaking when you get a sump screen blocked on a Hilux.
If it's still pretty pliable, I reckon the old kerosene in a rust proofing gun, or even a degreaser gun can work.
Up the sump cover hole under pressure, compressed air.
I have had some success with this method. It's actually Boxhead's method.
Deadly Beast came up with a good solution, as well. Really clean way of doing it, which frankly, suits me.
These methods are in place of the treaded, lifting the engine up of the engine mounts.
Then, you have to flush the system out with about 20L of clean engine oil, after that.
It's on going for about, 30,000kms, 3,000km and then 5,000km interval engine oil changes.
Yep, pretty much a disaster, but you get to save the engine block and all of it's components.
Note, you can also remove the whole front differential arrangement, but I have never done that.
With me, prevention is king.
It's a really common problem, and it should not have been that way. People asleep at the wheel thing.
An ocean in the sea.
With that method, I don't know, Marty.
Catch you later, John.

[Hobosgold]

From Face book>>>>

Berrima Diesel Service - The Diesel Experts
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One of the largest feedback topics we have posted of recent times has been related injector washers leaking carbon. There has been much discussion on this and also interjection by some other Diesel shops as to why this happens.
All we can do is SHARE our experience.
Seen here in the Picture you see the Toyota 1KD-FTV injectors (LEFT) and Nissan YD25 injectors (RIGHT) (removed yesterday). Debate has followed previous posts as to why this happens as the manufacturer of the 1KD scurries to fix an issue with different seals. As seen on the Right clean pair from the YD25 engine you can see similar copper washers and no leaks. One thing noticeably different is YD25 injectors are held in physically tighter supporting our comments that the 1KD-FTV injectors are not tight enough.
1KD-FTV injectors:- A recent collation of data from the past 300 sets of injectors we have replaced in the past 12 months has shown 3 in 10 sets have 1 injector with seals leaking and 4 in 10 sets having more than 1 injector seal leaking. We have seen this mainly in older engines (5 years and older). Some criticism from other shops on our recent posts have been critical on our information YET our direct experience is all we can offer up.
Main Reason for Removal:- Valve clearance adjustment only or Injector rattle and failure which in turn exposes the leaking seals upon removal.
YD25 injectors:- In contrast, as one comparative example, the past 50 sets we have replaced in the past 2 years has shown 1 in 50 leaking. We feel this cannot be used as data because this 1 set had previously been repaired by another shop so it could have been human error creating the leak.
Main Reason for Removal:- High mileage.
In summary:- There certainly appears a very repeatable issue with the 1KD-FTV engines older than 5 years with the leaking injector seals allowing carbons to enter the engine oil. Debate as to the 'need' to regularly change these seals during valve clearance inspection is correct ONLY if valve adjustment is needed (need to remove injectors to adjust) NOT checked. The fact that its bigger brother 1VD-FTV V8 engine appears to be escaping these issues (similar injectors-same maker) again supports the 'issue' that Toyota seem be be resistant in accepting and recalling on 1KD.
If you are interested in technical info and like discussion on our Facebook please LIKE our page for more updates. We appreciate and thank you for SHARING our page with your friends. Fell free to share our posts.
One of the largest feedback topics we have posted of recent times has been related injector washers leaking carbon. There has been much discussion on this and also interjection by some other Diesel shops as to why this happens.

All we can do is SHARE our experience.

Seen here in the Picture you see the Toyota 1KD-FTV injectors (LEFT) and Nissan YD25 injectors (RIGHT) (removed yesterday). Debate has followed previous posts as to why this happens as the manufacturer of the 1KD scurries to fix an issue with different seals. As seen on the Right clean pair from the YD25 engine you can see similar copper washers and no leaks. One thing noticeably different is YD25 injectors are held in physically tighter supporting our comments that the 1KD-FTV injectors are not tight enough.

1KD-FTV injectors:- A recent collation of data from the past 300 sets of injectors we have replaced in the past 12 months has shown 3 in 10 sets have 1 injector with seals leaking and 4 in 10 sets having more than 1 injector seal leaking. We have seen this mainly in older engines (5 years and older). Some criticism from other shops on our recent posts have been critical on our information YET our direct experience is all we can offer up.
Main Reason for Removal:- Valve clearance adjustment only or Injector rattle and failure which in turn exposes the leaking seals upon removal.

YD25 injectors:- In contrast, as one comparative example, the past 50 sets we have replaced in the past 2 years has shown 1 in 50 leaking. We feel this cannot be used as data because this 1 set had previously been repaired by another shop so it could have been human error creating the leak.
Main Reason for Removal:- High mileage.

In summary:- There certainly appears a very repeatable issue with the 1KD-FTV engines older than 5 years with the leaking injector seals allowing carbons to enter the engine oil. Debate as to the 'need' to regularly change these seals during valve clearance inspection is correct ONLY if valve adjustment is needed (need to remove injectors to adjust) NOT checked. The fact that its bigger brother 1VD-FTV V8 engine appears to be escaping these issues (similar injectors-same maker) again supports the 'issue' that Toyota seem be be resistant in accepting and recalling on 1KD.

If you are interested in technical info and like discussion on our Facebook please LIKE our page for more updates. We appreciate and thank you for SHARING our page with your friends. Fell free to share our posts.
LikeLike · · Share · 1775841

[Talktheroo]

Blar, blar, blar......
This is a Hilux forum, and while sometimes I talk about the Prado brand, as a sister vehicle, it's a Hilux forum. Don't take that the wrong way, but I could talk about that 1VD-FTV engine, all day, and how much I hate it.
Without sounding like I know everything, and just pointing out the fact, this is old news, really, but with something else throne in from me. This is still happening to newer vehicles, as well, as the kms climb.
The simple solution to this problem is to keep your injector seats fresh, as the TMC's engineers wanted.
It's heat transfer that causes the denigration, through different materials. That's what the coating of the new designed Toyota seats is all about, reducing that problem.
All these problems could have been avoided if most Toyota Service Centres did their jobs, especially under the heading of Valve Clearances, GSIC.
If you want the best seats out there in the market place, it's the BDG manufactured in Germany seats.
I am not just saying that because Matt is a mate of mine, they really are, and I have done my own tests on this.
The Roo.

[martynvella]

Roo, you keep saying that the dealers should be replacing the seals during service, do you have that in writing? If so where from?

I have talked to my service manager about it a couple of times and both times wrote it off as nonsense.

On Friday I emailed them about it so I could get their response in writing but guess what, they answered my email with a phone call, so nothing in writing.

He assured me that my model does not need it done and they do the clearances physically, which they may do but not the seals.

[fourby4diesel]

Deleted. Sorry.
No longer accurate. Don't want you having the incorrect info.

[boxhead55]

Well this monkey now states the manuals have now been updated to include in green INJECTORS DO NOT NEED TO BE REMOVED TO CHECK TAPPET CLARENCE

[fourby4diesel]

Well this monkey now states the manuals have now been updated to include in green INJECTORS DO NOT NEED TO BE REMOVED TO CHECK TAPPET CLARENCE

BH from what in told you are not in the 90%+ monkeys

Is that like the photos you have put up, with tappet cover off & fuel lines still in place?
Like do they also say in green " with capped price servicing you do not need to remove fuel lines"
If it works for you guys, maybe I should try it, I can save my customers some labour.
Do you loosen the common rail end? Or just bend the pipes?

Anyway so there we have it from a reliable source, Toyo not concerned about the sheets being changed at 40k, correct?

Technically we know we can get in their & check them without removing extras, it was my belief they wanted sheets replaced at every 40k.

BH Thankx again, always a wealth of info.

[boxhead55]

Since toyota has replaced them In 08 to aloy type ones they are no longer on the replace requirement. Nor do you get the parts to do so in the 40000 caped price service. You have to pay extra to have it done.
How many people have the 8 injector seals in the 1VD at 40, 80 or 120 tho service. No one! As they have hydrologic lash adjusters. The fuel system is identical as 1 and 2kd. As the 1VD and they do not have an issue.

[fourby4diesel]

Personally I think the alloy coated ones are good.
Have you ever found any of those leaked?

[boxhead55]

Not 1.

[fourby4diesel]

Roger that. Well please share if you do. I'm same 0 so far. If I see one I letchano.

[Talktheroo]

Well this monkey now states the manuals have now been updated to include in green INJECTORS DO NOT NEED TO BE REMOVED TO CHECK TAPPET CLARENCE

Yes, a court case or two, may have done this, No?
Look, here's the thing. I think the old procedure, the valve clearance procedure, in GSIC, is the go. I don't care about the green writing thing. The reason why, I AM FINDING INJECTOR SEATS DISTORTED. The new ones, too, 11176-30011.
As I have said before, it's not much more to do, to change those injector seats and seals, when you are doing a valve clearance check, service.
I reckon go with BDG injector seats, too. My opinion is that these are the best injector seats on the market.
Up yours, Denso Australia, the injector seats, I mean, and shame on you.
Blow by is not worth the risk, is it BH?
The Roo.

[Talktheroo]

The 1VD-FTVs (V8) are a nightmare to work on. So, what happens there, is up to you, and I will understand....
The Roo.

[martynvella]

What do you charge for an 80k service including seals ROO, assuming the clearances are within specs?

2012 SR5.

[highoctane]

Well this monkey now states the manuals have now been updated to include in green INJECTORS DO NOT NEED TO BE REMOVED TO CHECK TAPPET CLARENCE

Yes, a court case or two, may have done this, No?
Look, here's the thing. I think the old procedure, the valve clearance procedure, in GSIC, is the go. I don't care about the green writing thing. The reason why, I AM FINDING INJECTOR SEATS DISTORTED. The new ones, too, 11176-30011.
As I have said before, it's not much more to do, to change those injector seats and seals, when you are doing a valve clearance check, service.
I reckon go with BDG injector seats, too. My opinion is that these are the best injector seats on the market.
Up yours, Denso Australia, the injector seats, I mean, and shame on you.
Blow by is not worth the risk, is it BH?
The Roo.

Is it possible that they can be distorted by too much heat? Maybe caused by the top mount intercooler? have you seen any prados with the front mount intercooler have injector problems?