Injector / Seals / Smoke / Blocked Oil Pickup

[boxhead55]

Yep sure have

[boxhead55]

One drip of water and the show is over

[Talktheroo]

What do you charge for an 80k service including seals ROO, assuming the clearances are within specs?

2012 SR5.

$880.00*, for this service.
The injector seals and injector seats get changed out for new ones. That's what it's worth for the job to be done properly, and my opinion, of cause.
This is the valve clearance service.
* This price may change.
Catch you later, John.

[Talktheroo]

Well this monkey now states the manuals have now been updated to include in green INJECTORS DO NOT NEED TO BE REMOVED TO CHECK TAPPET CLARENCE

Yes, a court case or two, may have done this, No?
Look, here's the thing. I think the old procedure, the valve clearance procedure, in GSIC, is the go. I don't care about the green writing thing. The reason why, I AM FINDING INJECTOR SEATS DISTORTED. The new ones, too, 11176-30011.
As I have said before, it's not much more to do, to change those injector seats and seals, when you are doing a valve clearance check, service.
I reckon go with BDG injector seats, too. My opinion is that these are the best injector seats on the market.
Up yours, Denso Australia, the injector seats, I mean, and shame on you.
Blow by is not worth the risk, is it BH?
The Roo.

Is it possible that they can be distorted by too much heat? Maybe caused by the top mount intercooler? have you seen any prados with the front mount intercooler have injector problems?

Yes, I have.
That is, injector problems in the Prado 150 models.
I think it's more like the hot and cold thing, and heat transfer through different materials. I think, this is what causes the distortion. I will say this, the new designed injector seats do last a lot longer then it's past design, that being straight copper.
The Roo.

[Talktheroo]

I have always clean through the sump hole. And inspected with a 5 mm bora scope
Have a special kero blaster and then a special air blaster. Then Wash out the residue with clean oil and inspect.
I Have recheck all that I have cleaned after 1000km travel with the eye and tye camra and never had to clean again.
If you can not make the tools best to remove the sump. But that can get expensive.

Boxhead, have you previously posted details of your sump screen cleaning rig and methodology? Any links?? If not would be great if you could give us a run down on the tools and process

Cleaned my sump last month. I didnt have a blocked pickup so cant say how effective this might be for cleaning that.
Cost - $5 for 1L Kerosene + using up crap lying around shed
This works well with fumuto valve.

Cleaned up an empty slime bottle after filling quad bike tire utilising the bottle screw top nozzle.


Insert grommet with oil resistant RTV. Allow to set


Plug grommet Fill with 3/4 with Kero. Clamp fuel hose to nozzle


Connect free end of fuel hose to fumuto valve


Rests well bewteen auto trans and cross member


Dial compressor hose to 30-40PSI. Kero blasts into sump in a few seconds. Flick fumuto closed
Repeat with rest of clean kero.


Place empty kero bottle under hose


Open valve and drain

Awesome DB. You and Boxhead are my heros after the weekend.
I cleaned a sump screen with a similar method, I had to make do. 100% blocked. After 8L of kerosene, we got it pretty clean.
We put about 20L of cheap engine oil through, as well, to flush out the galleries, as much as possible.
Another Hilux saved from the condition, blow by, and this one was bad.
Blow by in every cylinder, thus every injector port.
Now the program begins. Change engine oil at 1,000kms from where it is now. Then 3,000kms, and then 5,000kms, for the rest of it's life.
Thanks again, you guys, all I want to do is thank you, and this saved me from lifting up the engine, to get that bloody sump cover off. Saved the customer, $1,500.00.
The look on the customer's face, as he drove the vehicle at 2.00am, yes 2.00am, in the morning, priceless. The vehicle had not been going for 12 months. I ten to be, a man on a mission, sometimes.
I must say, the starter motor not going, saved this vehicle, as well. Saved the block from being stripped out.
Kerosene awesome, even though I still smell of the stuff, two days later.
Hey DB, could you please post the size of that valve and the hose that you used in your system that you made up. Also, where you bought it.
As I said at the beginning of this post, you two, hero factor no.1. All I want to do is thank you both.
It's all, how you treat your friends.
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
Catch you later, John.
The Roo.

[DeadlyBeast]

Hi Roo,
Great to hear your story. Good outcome
The Fumuto valve I have is a F103N 12mm thread with nipple(N). Cost $30 + $8 express post about 2 and half years ago.
Now $34 + $9 flat rate postage for any quantity
The hose is 3/8" or 9.5mm
A good thread started by Steve here:
http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=11713
And valves available here:
http://www.fumoto.com.au/sizes.php
These valves are awesome to get around the cross member issue - make oil changes so much cleaner.
Just push fit a 200-300mm length of "3/8 hose and drain. No mess no fuss.
You wont need to take a kerosene shower when cleaning the sump screen using a fumuto either

[@lberto]

Hi everybody, here in Panama Central America we have find that 1kd engines from 2006 to 2009 have cooper washers that eventually failed, didn't make good seal then the combustion goes up and burn the o-ring making the oil to descend to the combustion chamber and we already now what happen when we have oil in the combustion chamber besides white smoke in the exhaust pipe.
We find that the new injectors came with other seal with some kind of nickel plating, they are not longer cooper.
Usually these washer we find it in 1kd engines, Hilux, Fortuner and Prado. In the 2 kd engines that came in hilux don't bring the cooper style washer, the best thing to do is take the injectors out to check wath kind of seal you have and put new ones.

[Talktheroo]

Ye, Alberto, they are still the copper seats, they have just been coated. The new designed injector seats, that is.
Catch you later, John.

[Hellbound]

Roo have you seen any injector seal or oil pickup issues with the updated post 2008 injector seals?

[boxhead55]

No been very good.

[Talktheroo]

Yes, I have.
Just two weeks ago, a Prado 150 GXL 2010, with blow by in number three cylinder.
Look, to be fair to the Toyota engineers, the blow by problem is a lot less then pre 2007, but there are still problems. The sump screen had not been affected yet. I got it before that happened. On this vehicle, I check the sump screen every 10,000kms. I would like to do it every 5,000kms, but the customer only drops his engine oil every 10,000kms.
It's best that those injector seats are replaced at the 80,000km service with the valve clearance service.
I like to use the Bailey's Diesel group injector seats, because I happen to think they are the best out there in the market place.
The Roo.

[Heyitscam]

Hey lads,

I'm looking at purchasing a 2008 hilux with 140,000kms on the clock. I've been reading up on the common injector problems and from what I understand is that at any time they can fail. So my questions are

1) Is it true that from 08 onwards the injector problem was fixed or is the problem still happening in the 08+ models?
2) Is there anyway to prevent it from happening apart from changing fuel filters regular servicing getting them checked out etc?
3) When the injectors do fail, are the Baileys Diesel Group injectors the way to go?

Apologies if these are common questions.

Thanks cam

[Rocket55]

Check out this thread Cam, it's almost the wholly Grail of injector and fuel issues for our Hilux.

Threads merged

[fourby4diesel]

Roo have you seen any injector seal or oil pickup issues with the updated post 2008 injector seals?

Sorry,

I see you asked me months ago. My answer is no, no coated seats found leaking here.
Plenty dramas with old copper ones. I have found copper in all hiluxes up to 10/07, maybe later.
I have removed injectors that are stuffed from 08 & 09 with 200,000 Klm's+ never been removed, the coated ones not leaking, lucky? Or much better?

BH never seen one, but roo has, so I'd say the odds are pretty bloody good, that they will be ok.
I'd pretty much recommend new injectors every 120k, at which time it will get new seats & check valve clearances, but that's my opinion. New pipes, & egr clean highly recommended at the same time.
Oil change & check every 5000k please. Very important.

Lads,

Love your ideas of cleaning sump screens, I'm prepared to try anything to make it easier & I'm always trying something different.

Cheers.

[Bengalla76]

Replaced timing belt, idler and tensioner today as part off my 150k service and check the oil pump pick up screen with a see snake tool. Screen spotless. I have not complete a valve inspection to date and she has 150k on the clock. We run large engines at work and don't touch them at all these days and getting anywhere from 15,000- 25,000hrs out of them. I will check valves at 160k and see what they are doing. Toyota where not prepared to do any thing as part of the fixed price servicing at 40k or 80k and it's in the service schedule.

[Talktheroo]

OK, well, instead of words, I thought I might as well put up some photographs of this problem I have been talking about.



You can see the new Toyota seats part no. 11176-30011 on the second row, number three, had the beginnings of blow by. You can see the deterioration of the seats in the middle where the injector nozzle go through.





I have included in the photographs, the seals, as some people get confused in between the two. It's the injector seats that seal off the cylinder where the nozzle goes through in the cylinder head.
Those seals there, are for sealing off the injector ports because the bottom of the injectors are engine oil cooled, there is a gallery that supplies engine oil to the four injector ports. When the gallery gets blocked by carbon caused by blow by, it stops the oil cooling the bottom of the injectors.
I do consider this thread an important one. So, the truth should be here.
The answer to this problem, is keeping those injector seats fresh. The BDG seats are the best, as I have field tested them. Change them out every 80,000kms, I reckon.
Those Toyota injector seats that are in the photographs, were taken out at 120,000kms. They should of been taken out at the 80,000km service, with the valve clearances.
To be fair, and as you can see, I have put the old copper seats in the photographs. The new coated seats do last longer, but not as some would have you believe.
The Roo.

[nicebike]

Now that's helpful ! Thanks Roo

[fourby4diesel]

Well this monkey now states the manuals have now been updated to include in green INJECTORS DO NOT NEED TO BE REMOVED TO CHECK TAPPET CLARENCE

Not sure WTF Toyota are up to then.

Because their customer service exercise clearly states:

"This is a long term durability condition that only occurs when the vehicle has not been maintained according to Toyotas recommended maintenance interval.

The injector nozzle seats are non-reusable parts which are scheduled for replacing during valve clearance inspection at 2 years or 40,000km service interval."

One or the other is wrong.

Another example of the misinformation.

Lucky some of us specialising in this issue have our own brain.

[mattwhite]

Here's my effort. First one I've emcountered. Thanks to you guys on here for even giving me the idea to clean it in situ.

[Talktheroo]

Nice and clean, Matt.
Good old kerosene. Way to go for the Hiluxes.
The Prado brand, you can pull the whole sump screen out by removing the front sump cover. It's easy on the Prados, Matt.
Catch you later, John.