** Steve9R's Contaminated Diesel Fuel Warning Mod **

[Steve9R]

Mod completed last week.
Works a treat.Tested with a jumper wire between the plug pins on the filter bottom plug and Beeeeeeeeeeep Sweet cheers Steve9R you will save a member thousands soon enough.
Next model hilux will have this i reckon ...Toyota enginees called you yet Steve9R..
Cheers

... nah no phone calls from Toyota yet...

Im pleased though that someone has done it.. I still think its one of the easiest an most important mods to do....

Anyone else ?

Cheers
Steve

[Shaker]

I read this thread over. It's an excellent idea and yes, Toyota should have made an audible alert to fuel contamination, but they make more money off parts if you fail to see the flashing warning next to your fuel gauge and it's not their fault if you don't pay attention to the warning they provided as lame as it is and purchased contaminated fuel. Although a buzzer now sounds after this modification and the idea is applauded, the water catchment area in Toyota diesel filters is limited and contaminants unseen. I've done more reading and web browsing on the topic of contamination. The best solution is to prevent water entering the Toyota filter completely or as much as possible and by all means, this mod as well as attention to Toyota's contamination warning light can be used as a fail safe in addition to a better aftermarket system providing a primary early warning alarm. The best and only solutions on offer world wide that i can come up with currently was a sediment collector mentioned here on Prado Point forum as well as Steve9rR's original; post. These units are non-restrictive of the fuel pump flow and therefore prolong the pump's life span and reliability unlike the Delphi solution with restrictive filter, especially as the filter medium gets wet and has no sensor to pre-warn you of water in the fuel before it enters the Toyota filter, which by the time an alarm sounds with this mod, water could have made it's way into the engine's system and damage could have already begun. We should keep in mind that genuine Toyota filters are quite good and there should be no need for secondary filtration. All current C.A.V. solutions do not offer anything as specific as this. As Steve9R posted previously, the Link to this product is here. I suggest you watch the video on this site as it's hard to argue lack of truth in it. There is a similar solution used in Europe on a biodiesel website here. However, like other non-restrictive to fuel pump flow sediment filters, this unit does not allow for fitment of a early warning alarm sensor and has a limited visibility sediment bowl. So really, it's just as useless as all the other units on the market. Without that pre-warning before the Toyota warning, it can be futile unless you like looking at a glass bowl in the engine bay every 50kms because paranoia set in when you bought diesel from that run down old Independent roadhouse back there.

I would prefer double peace of mind and willing to spend the money to do the extra miles, as I'll be doing a round trip of Aussie land and don't trust suppliers of diesel with a possible $8000 worth of damage due to injector repairs and tank/line cleaning as well as a breakdown in the middle of nowhere. So what they charge for their patented design is worth it when you compare the possible heartache without it, even with Steve9R's cheaper mod. All the info in this thread is worth very serious consideration. Try find the best solutions you can with what I just said and see what you come up with.

Thanks Steve9R for the alarm mod.

[Alby]

I agree, I don't see any advantage in adding secondry filtration or having glass inspection bowls unless you can see them from the driving position, if you get a dose of bad fuel the result will be exactly the same without a warning system.

IMHO Steves style of mod is a far better option

[Steve9R]

Hi Shaker,

You are correct that the Delphi pre-filter does put 'some' extra load on the fuel pump, but for 2 years now minimum in the field being run and I havent heard of anyone that has reported ANY fuel pump issues..

The beauty of my mod is that yes the Toyota filter will hold about (and im tryingto remember now cause i didnt measure it) but I'd guess about 200ml of water before the alarm triggers, hence why we NEED to know IMMEDIATELY if there is water in there.. and basically we HAVE to shut down as soon as possible and drain it.. here's where the delphi is handy too.. cause you can now verify if thats full of water as well and drain that too (as well as any larger sediments that the delphi collects and stops the OEM filter from having to filter / block drain pipes etc)..

even with the CAV pre-filter, as soon as you hear that buzzer you HAVE to stop ASAP.. so really other than the 20cm of fuel hose and the 200ml in the OEM filter there's not much difference IMHO..

At the end of the day, this mod will cost $5.45 compared to $462->$765.... people will make up their own mind as to what they want to do... at the very least they should do my mod...

Shaker, can you please confirm if you have any relationship to do with either gold coast diesel specialists or anything to do with the sale or resale of those Diesel Water seperator filters they sell ? (Im not accusing, Im curious as some of your statements appear to be very much those of someone trying to promote their product for sale?)

Cheers
Steve

[Shaker]

Lmao, nah mate, I wish. I've just been doing a lot of reading and looking for the best solutions. I'm from the South Burnett Queensland, so too far from the gold coast to have anything to do with them. My point was before about not having to worry so much about immediate engine shutdown, the sediment bowl fitted with the alarm is a great idea rather than the panic and chance of a little water finding it's way into the injector system by the time the Toyota alarm warns you that's all. Prevention is better than cure type deal before water makes it's way that far in the fuel system. If there were a cheaper option to these guys on the Gold Coast I would definitely take it without blinking. If anyone couldn't afford the expensive option, then definitely, a buzzer is way better than a pathetic flashing light and $$$$ later for sure. For me Steve9R, I'm going to do the sediment bowl with alarm only. For others at the least they should do the buzzer mod I agree fully. Who stares at the fuel gauge while their enjoying their surroundings anyway... Still building up all from new, planning a trip right around the bottom end, a week in Perth, then up through the Kimberly region, Uluru, then working my way home. I need good fuel protection. As I'm a solo vehicle, I won't skimp an anything that gives me peace of mind, but thats also sounds like a sales gimmick so I'll shut up now lol.

[Skog07]

Great thread Steve.
Ive added it to the Members Custom Projects Index.
Well done and thanks for sharing this how to do Mod.
Cheers
Mark

[Steve9R]

Lmao, nah mate, I wish. I've just been doing a lot of reading and looking for the best solutions. I'm from the South Burnett Queensland, so too far from the gold coast to have anything to do with them.

Cool.. thank you for clarifying..

My point was before about not having to worry so much about immediate engine shutdown, the sediment bowl fitted with the alarm is a great idea rather than the panic and chance of a little water finding it's way into the injector system by the time the Toyota alarm warns you that's all.

Are you saying you wont panic and shutdown the vehicle straight away anyway ??!

Prevention is better than cure type deal before water makes it's way that far in the fuel system. If there were a cheaper option to these guys on the Gold Coast I would definitely take it without blinking. If anyone couldn't afford the expensive option, then definitely, a buzzer is way better than a pathetic flashing light and $$$$ later for sure. For me Steve9R, I'm going to do the sediment bowl with alarm only. For others at the least they should do the buzzer mod I agree fully.

Absolutely.. Im sure though that there must be 'some' tolerance for water with the injectors.. Im sure its not much, but there'd have to be 'some' surely.. I mean everyone knows that diesel is dirty and full of water.. (dont they! ).. Remembering how much water the canister can hold before going into the injectors (you have to remember that the OEM filter is designed to catch water and NOT pump it into the injectors until the canister is full).. so i still
feel this mod is as good as the Gold Coast pre filter IMHO..

But as you said.. each to their own...

Cheers
Steve

[Chancha_Blanca]

"Time to install :
----------------
1hr (ish) "

... and how many beers?????

how loud is the buzzer?

Thanks,

the SBS viewer!

[Steve9R]

"Time to install :
----------------
1hr (ish) "

... and how many beers?????

I installed one this morning for a mate, (I'd pre-wired the diode onto the piezo) but the whole install into his truck including testing took me 15mins with no beer (It was 9am!)..

how loud is the buzzer?

Check out the couple of videos that i posted at the end of the 1st post .. the last one shows the buzzer in action

Thanks,

the SBS viewer!

See... I KNEW it !

Cheers
Steve

[Shaker]

My point was before about not having to worry so much about immediate engine shutdown, the sediment bowl fitted with the alarm is a great idea rather than the panic and chance of a little water finding it's way into the injector system by the time the Toyota alarm warns you that's all.

Are you saying you wont panic and shutdown the vehicle straight away anyway ??!

Umm, no if you read again thats not what i meant and was reffering to the alarmed sediment bowl before the Toyota filter. Sorry if I sounded confusing...

You were wondering about injector tollerances Steve9R. I rang my brother in law who is an auto electrician for many years. He also does injector work such as sonic injector cleaning and replacements etc and the business is also titled as an injection center. He suggested that because of the very fine machanical tollerances of the injectors, there is next to zero tollerance toward any water or other conaminants (hence why Toyota invested so much into their filter design.) The slightest amount of water takes away the lubricating qualities of diesel, even on a miniscule area of the working injector and damage can start albeit not noticable at the time. This initial damage is not only detrimental to the performance of the injector, but like anything machanical, wear creates a cascading and eventually catastophic effect as that initial wear/damage progresses.

Edit: In relation to injectors and water, the above is reffering to slight injector water contamination. Larger or accummulative droplets of water compress hard in the injectors, unlike diesels normal ability to be pushed though and vapourized from the injector nozzel under pressure and would result total injector damage/failure. Thought I should clarify it a little more.

Lets also remember that if the Toyota filter has ingested water, the Toyota filter should also be replaced as too the C.A.V. filter solution which would have become even more restrictive of flow once is has been submerged in water by the time the Toyota alarm sounds. Not debating or knocking your excellent idea Steve9R and it's a great thread here with a budget solution, but if I know there are better options regarless of cost, it's worth taking. If someone could change the patented design on that alarmed sediment filter by 20%, make the design better by also adding a deeper bowl, whack a world patent on it, they could watch them fly out the door with the right price and promotion... The cost to do this would add up to many tens of thousands of dollars and is why those other units are so expensive due to the research, delvelopment, manufacturing and patenting I'd like to be in their shoes when the patent is paid off and profits start rolling in, but then again, the price would probably drop by then.

Which ever way one goes, spare filters should be carried. My take on this is that in a real world situation in the middle of nowhere, how many of either filters would you have replaced before you can get help and at what cost? Then the entire fuel system needs to be flushed right back to the fuel tank. I'm sure I also share the same opinion with others when I say that either way you look at it, water anywhere in the system is very, very bad and the costly damage that ensues is the same should it make it's way to the injectors, even in small quantities.

[Steve9R]

You were wondering about injector tollerances Steve9R. I rang my brother in law who is an auto electrician for many years. He also does injector work such as sonic injector cleaning and replacements etc and the business is also titled as an injection center. He suggested that because of the very fine machanical tollerances of the injectors, there is next to zero tollerance toward any water or other conaminants (hence why Toyota invested so much into their filter design.) The slightest amount of water takes away the lubricating qualities of diesel, even on a miniscule area of the working injector and damage can start albeit not noticable at the time. This initial damage is not only detrimental to the performance of the injector, but like anything machanical, wear creates a cascading and eventually catastophic effect as that initial wear/damage progresses.

Thats really good information.. thank you for that. As I stated i was only summizing.. but Ill take this as fact..

Which ever way one goes, spare filters should be carried. My take on this is that in a real world situation in the middle of nowhere, how many of either filters would you have replaced before you can get help and at what cost? Then the entire fuel system needs to be flushed right back to the fuel tank. I'm sure I also share the same opinion with others when I say that either way you look at it, water anywhere in the system is very, very bad and the costly damage that ensues is the same should it make it's way to the injectors, even in small quantities.

Absolutely.. I agree..

Steve

[Trocolino]

Steve9R,
Hi mate,
No doubts Steve's idea IS a great one!
Here my 2's, I just finish to install an extra fuel tank of 170l. That coupled with the stock 80l, makes a total of 250l!!
IF then after xxxkm the buzer sounds...A story of love/hate...
What would it be to have that system acting on demand, as testing the fuel as is entering the tank.
IF possible at all...
Sorry perhaps for the non sense...
Cheers

[Shaker]

Well that's a conversation stopper Steve9R, that question was for you mate. The practical solution is easy, the inventive solution is in my head and you'z aren't getting it If only I could put my theory into reality, I'm positive it would work. I surprise myself, but that's no surprise either Gotta run, there is wind coming!

[Steve9R]

Sorry guys.. i mustve missed that post.

Testing the fuel on entry into the tank.. ugh.. with high flow diesel and the like and the volume of fuel passing any sort of equipment would make it pretty hard to do.. In saying that.. I remember someone talking about a Funnel equiped with a water sensor or some sort .. then basically all they did was fill through the funnel.. lemmi search for a sec..

Yep here it is. Mt Funnel..

http://www.proquip.com.au/Product%20Pag ... nnels.html

maybe that is what you're after ? it will stop hydrocarbons and water from entering the fuel system upon fill up..

Cheers
Steve

[Shaker]

May I add to that?... I saw that Mr Funnel solution, but it would be extremely slow, maybe something to carry just in case. The cheapest way would be to get the bowser flowing into a jerry can (about four litres) which will get any possible water moving through the bowser. Then, fill up a large glass jar and let it settle, check the bottom of the jar and if all ok, funnel the dump and test fuel into the tank. Continue to fill with some assurance there was no visual contaminants there to begin with. You would look like a dork and have many onlookers watching your pedantic procedure, but your not doing it to make them feel confident.

I PM'd Trocolino and asked him specifically what he was after. He does a lot of overseas travel and his vehicle follows him around too. He mentioned Airbus has a solution, but it must be large and he wants to make one for a car. I have an idea for this, a little more complex to the sediment filter solution and not restrictive of bowser flow using three natural principals which all work together to alert you to water entering the tank as your filling up. But imho, it's cheaper to catch/detect water as it comes from the tank and there would not be a huge market for anything way more expensive or better than the solutions mentioned in this thread.

[asmo]

Yes it would be funny to see the glass jar come out
A good sugestion but hard to do ...

I would think you could get water any time throughout the fill and maybe moreso at the end ...Large tank going down...

I would have great satisfaction draining the fuel filter bowl out when the buzzer goes off and also pumping a bit onto the ground with the priming pump...

Also send steve a carton in the post as thanks
asmo

[Steve9R]

May I add to that?... I saw that Mr Funnel solution, but it would be extremely slow, maybe something to carry just in case.

You know i thought that too, but looking at their site they state that it can handle all flows with no problem.. so might be worth looking at ?

Also send steve a carton in the post as thanks
asmo

Cheers Asmo !

Steve

[Alby]

I recall reading somewhere that because the fuel /water are agitated together and airated somewhat that the Mr Funnel solution does not necessarily prevent water ingress?????
There may be no substance to that statement and just someones theory???

[Steve9R]

dont know... ive only ever seen them on their website... im sure someone on here has one ??

[toyboata]

i've been talking to a local diesel specialist today about a secondary/pre filter and was talked out of it. In his experience it has caused more problems rather than doing any good and reckons the Toyota filter unit is perfectly OK as much time and money has been invested in its development, so rather that extra filters it would just be better to change it more regularly. Steve9R's mod though is certainly an excellent idea and i will definitely be doing it shortly.
Everyone has their opinions